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Those who promote waterboarding have not provided a persuasive link between it and the finding of bin Laden.
The CIA says two of the key three people who spoke about the courier were not waterboarded, and the third lied that he didn't know much about the courier -- and even this was months after being waterboarded. That's not convincing evidence for its efficacy.
Well, let's take a look at what you are doing here...
You said this;
Credible sources? you never distinguish...I think purposely. And "do"? Do what?
Don't try that **** with me Joe...Your shtick is tired. Come on back when you can structure a sentence properly professor.
Well, let's take a look at what you are doing here...
You said this;
Credible sources? you never distinguish...I think purposely. And "do"? Do what?
Don't try that **** with me Joe...Your shtick is tired. Come on back when you can structure a sentence properly professor.
Hey J-mac, if FOX reports that Obama said that everything bad in the world is the fault of republicans, does that mean I can claim FOX as a source for republicans being at fault for everything?
Let me get this straight, we're talking about one post, I point out your error and you jump to another? And your complaining about ****? :lamo:lamo
Now, I've given your those links before j, but if you need them again, just ask and when I get the computer I'll link them again as I always do. But, that does fix or address your misreading. Care to step up and tackle that? Or s diversion all you got?
Sure....Why not? Is it against the rules?
My misreading? Or your purposely piss poor articulation? You are pathetically dishonest Joe, I think for the best we are both done replying to each other for a while.
Best article you can find on the matter eh....How convenient that is bolsters your point of view....Wow....*shakes head....*
View attachment 67139686
On the other hand, it was much better than the articles you found bolstering your point of view. I know, it is really inconvienient that I base my point of view on facts, and not opinions of politicians who I agree with.
Just want to check something. Words or a politician saying they were used and gained info from them is untrustworthy because its a politician with a political motivation to say that
But a politician whose been staunchly anti torture to any degree for decades is inherently trustworthy and reliable in his statements because he agreed with someone who he usually agrees with on this issue?
That makes TONS of sense....
[h=1]Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'[/h]So, apparently three senators are upset that a Hollywood movie is less than 100% factually accurate. In other news, one M. Mouse is revealed to be a cartoon rodent and dinosaurs can't really be cloned from DNA locked in amber for millions of years.
Really? Is this what members of Congress are drawing a salary for doing?
allow me to finish the sentence for you:
It really is unfortunate that "advanced interrogation methods" actually work to motivate the opposition
The opposition is already motivated...
Certainly not what I'm saying. But torture is not new, has been greatly studied. Libraries are full of material on this. The unreliability of torture is well documented. I suggest not what any politician says (though McCain has above average cred.), but cutlasses, verifiable evidence is what should matter.
Which doesn't preclude motivating those who would not have been inclined otherwise. We're not dealing with a set membership.
I was speaking to the claim that EIT were used in the process of intel gathering with the string of intel that led to Bin Laden, not regarding the effectiveness of such techniques comparative to others
Those that are "motovated" to join don't need torture to motivate them... they already hate us and all they need is any nudge.
Torture is just an excuse that apologists make.
[h=1]Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'[/h]So, apparently three senators are upset that a Hollywood movie is less than 100% factually accurate. In other news, one M. Mouse is revealed to be a cartoon rodent and dinosaurs can't really be cloned from DNA locked in amber for millions of years.
Really? Is this what members of Congress are drawing a salary for doing?
It's a pretty big motivator. Not an excuse. You wrongly torture one if mine, and we got issues. Ever hear of the hayfields and McCoys?
The thing s actions matter. Pretending they don't is what an apologist does.
Just want to check something. Words or a politician saying they were used and gained info from them is untrustworthy because its a politician with a political motivation to say that
But a politician whose been staunchly anti torture to any degree for decades is inherently trustworthy and reliable in his statements because he agreed with someone who he usually agrees with on this issue?
That makes TONS of sense....
I was speaking to the claim that EIT were used in the process of intel gathering with the string of intel that led to Bin Laden, not regarding the effectiveness of such techniques comparative to others
I think the timeline handles that fairly well, but the burden is in those who say it did contribute. And you have to show we cold not and did not get it any other way. It is about showing verifiable evidence and not just claims, which both sides can furnish ad nausum.
Intelligence was gathered from a person who was subject to EIT. That is the closest positive claim that can safely be made a bout the effectiveness of EIT as an interrogation tool in this case. Anything beyond that is based on guesses.
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