Bill O'Reilly an Anti-Semite and more?

[Kelzie]

I was never upset about them saying happy holidays, it was the stores that disallowed their employees to return in kind, when wished a Merry Christmas. This was my problem, and I suspect the problem of many others.

Wait that's not what I heard. I heard that Walmart asked their employees to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. What store wasn't letting their employees respond to a Merry Christmas with a Merry Christmas?

 

[Engimo]

I know all about it, and many religious figures were engaged in the same movement, this is what you fail to realize. After the religious wars of 16th and 17th century, many in Europe left for America, to avoid this unreasonable practice all together, hence the founding of this great land. So it is you who have a problem with understanding the movement in which you purport to comprehend so well. They were not leaving behind their faith, but the chains that kept their faith from evolving in to the next rational steps, i.e, science, medicine, all intelligent debate for that matter.

Yes, you are right. What you fail to understand is the fact that the inclusion of religious people in the Enlightenment movement does not change that the principles of the Enlightenment itself were nonreligious in nature.

 

[Deegan]

Yes, you are right. What you fail to understand is the fact that the inclusion of religious people in the Enlightenment movement does not change that the principles of the Enlightenment itself were nonreligious in nature.

No, not non-religious, not at all. It was indeed more about the intolerant among those, who insisted that praying would heal the sick, or that God would provide for everyone. You just can't separate the two, the faithful knew that God intended them to think, and act, not to rely on him for everything. Sure there were those with no belief what so ever, but they were a tiny minority, more then today, that's for sure.

 

[Engimo]

No, not non-religious, not at all. It was indeed more about the intolerant among those, who insisted that praying would heal the sick, or that God would provide for everyone. You just can't separate the two, the faithful knew that God intended them to think, and act, not to rely on him for everything. Sure there were those with no belief what so ever, but they were a tiny minority, more then today, that's for sure.

Oh, really?

Thinkers of the last wave of the Enlightenment—Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Immanuel Kant as well as Adam Smith, Thomas Jefferson and the young Johann Wolfgang von Goethe adopted the increasingly used biological metaphor of self-organization and evolutionary forces. This represented the impending end of the Enlightenment: which believed that nature, while basically good, was not basically self-ordering—see Voltaire's Candide for an example of why not. Instead, it had to be ordered with reasoning and maturity. The impending Romantic view saw the universe as self-ordering, and that chaos was, in a real sense, the result of excesses of rational impositions on an organic world.


In 1791, the "Great" or Four-Year Sejm of 1788–1792 adopts the May 3rd Constitution at Warsaw's Royal Castle.
This boundary would produce political results: with increasing force in the 1750s there would be attempts in England, Austria, Prussia, Poland and France to "rationalize" the monarchical system and its laws. When this failed to end wars, there was an increasing drive for revolution or dramatic alteration. The Enlightenment idea of rationality as a guiding force for government found its way to the heart of the American Declaration of Independence, and the Jacobin program of the French Revolution, as well as the American Constitution of 1787 and the Polish Constitution of May 3, 1791.

 

[jamesrage]

I think Bill O'Reilly, and everyone who agrees with him, might just be full of hate.

O'Reilly may not be right about everything but he is right about this war on christmas..None of you deny that the ACLU is going around suing the **** out of any public official who prays in public,Christmas decorations,the boyscouts and and the ten commandments.You are ****ing liar if you deny that there is no culture war going on.

Oly a dumbass beleaves there is no war against real christians and moral values.

If we are full of hate is because of the vermin out there trying to change the moral fabric of this country and the vermin out there trying to lie to everyone while doing it.

 

[Deegan]

Oh, really?

Once again, you are assuming that people of faith can not be "rational" you sir are a bigot.:roll:

 

[Kelzie]

Once again, you are assuming that people of faith can not be "rational" you sir are a bigot.:roll:

What?!? Where in the world did s/he say that?

 

[Kelzie]

O'Reilly may not be right about everything but he is right about this war on christmas..None of you deny that the ACLU is going around suing the **** out of any public official who prays in public,Christmas decorations,the boyscouts and and the ten commandments.You are ****ing liar if you deny that there is no culture war going on.

Oly a dumbass beleaves there is no war against real christians and moral values.

If we are full of hate is because of the vermin out there trying to change the moral fabric of this country and the vermin out there trying to lie to everyone while doing it.

You are aware that the ACLU also sued a school because they wouldn't allow a little girl to sing a Christian song at a talent show, right? The ACLU works both sides. Whenever rights are being threatened.

 

[Deegan]

What?!? Where in the world did s/he say that?

The author knows what I mean, I have followed the posts carefully, and this is my "rational" conclusion.

Oh, and this is an A and B conversation, you can C your way out.:2razz:

 

[Engimo]

The author knows what I mean, I have followed the posts carefully, and this is my "rational" conclusion.

Oh, and this is an A and B conversation, you can C your way out.:2razz:

Yeah, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Can you show where I said absolutely anything about the rationality of religious people?

 

[Deegan]

You are aware that the ACLU also sued a school because they wouldn't allow a little girl to sing a Christian song at a talent show, right? The ACLU works both sides. Whenever rights are being threatened.

Some wonder if that is all for show, and so folks like you can mention those cases. Just throwing it out there, no need to get too excited.:lol:

 

[Deegan]

Yeah, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Can you show where I said absolutely anything about the rationality of religious people?

Just look at your post, and where you highlighted the sentence on "rationality'. I missed the part where it said they were not faith based, maybe you're just not very good at this yet, but stick around, I'll help you learn.

 

[Engimo]

Just look at your post, and where you highlighted the sentence on "rationality'. I missed the part where it said they were not faith based, maybe you're just not very good at this yet, but stick around, I'll help you learn.

...I was saying how the principles of rationality as derived from the thinking of the Enlightenment formed the basis for the American Revolution and the Constitution - just as the Wikipedia article says. I am not saying that religious people cannot be rational, so stop acting so condescending and attacking a straw man.

 

[Deegan]

...I was saying how the principles of rationality as derived from the thinking of the Enlightenment formed the basis for the American Revolution and the Constitution - just as the Wikipedia article says. I am not saying that religious people cannot be rational, so stop acting so condescending and attacking a straw man.

99.9% of the folks involved in both the Constitution, and the Revolution were faith based in their thinking. You describe a very few, whom may, or may not have had faith in their decision making process, this leaves you wanting. I understand very well what you are trying to express here, and I am educating you to the facts, like it or not.

 

[Kelzie]

The author knows what I mean, I have followed the posts carefully, and this is my "rational" conclusion.

Oh, and this is an A and B conversation, you can C your way out.:2razz:

Ha. Ha ha. Your originality kills me.

 

[Engimo]

99.9% of the folks involved in both the Constitution, and the Revolution were faith based in their thinking. You describe a very few, whom may, or may not have had faith in their decision making process, this leaves you wanting. I understand very well what you are trying to express here, and I am educating you to the facts, like it or not.

I would like for you to show some proof of that. If these are the "facts", as you say [and very condescendingly, at that], please show some evidence as to the "fact" that the Constitution was written with Judeo-Christian principles in mind.

 

[Kelzie]

I would like for you to show some proof of that. If these are the "facts", as you say [and very condescendingly, at that], please show some evidence as to the "fact" that the Constitution was written with Judeo-Christian principles in mind.

Yeah especially since (going out on a limb here) 1000 people weren't involved in making the Constitution.

 

[jamesrage]

You are aware that the ACLU also sued a school because they wouldn't allow a little girl to sing a Christian song at a talent show, right? The ACLU works both sides. Whenever rights are being threatened.

The Rats in the ACLU think a few token cases makes a difference when they are trying ot knock down the moral fiber of this country.Just because there might be some fake christians and fake jews in the ACLU does mean they are on the side of the religion.The ACLU picks and chooses which cases they want.A few token cases does not make up for the undermining of national sercurity,the tearing down of moral values and religiouos symbols and telling when and where elected officials can pray or their vicious attack on the boy scouts.

 

[Engimo]

Yeah especially since (going out on a limb here) 1000 people weren't involved in making the Constitution.

Well, it's a little known fact, but only 3% of Thomas Jefferson was an Enlightenment philosopher.

 

[Kelzie]

The Rats in the ACLU think a few token cases makes a difference when they are trying ot knock down the moral fiber of this country.Just because there might be some fake christians and fake jews in the ACLU does mean they are on the side of the religion.The ACLU picks and chooses which cases they want.A few token cases does not make up for the undermining of national sercurity,the tearing down of moral values and religiouos symbols and telling when and where elected officials can pray or their vicious attack on the boy scouts.

So you're...what? Not very fond of them?

 

[Engimo]

The Rats in the ACLU think a few token cases makes a difference when they are trying ot knock down the moral fiber of this country.Just because there might be some fake christians and fake jews in the ACLU does mean they are on the side of the religion.The ACLU picks and chooses which cases they want.A few token cases does not make up for the undermining of national sercurity,the tearing down of moral values and religiouos symbols and telling when and where elected officials can pray or their vicious attack on the boy scouts.

Woah. That's some hostility for an organization whose sole purpose is to uphold the rights of its citizens. Could you show how the ACLU is tearing down moral values?

http://www.aclu.org/religion/tencomm/16254res20050302.html

That seems like an awful lot of cases to take simply as a token gesture.

 

[Kelzie]

Well, it's a little known fact, but only 3% of Thomas Jefferson was an Enlightenment philosopher.

:lol: I also heard he was 22% women.

 

[Deegan]

I would like for you to show some proof of that. If these are the "facts", as you say [and very condescendingly, at that], please show some evidence as to the "fact" that the Constitution was written with Judeo-Christian principles in mind.

If you can't see the evidence of faith in those times, I can't help you. Being a man of faith, and allowing a faith to dominate, are two really different things, this was their position. You also have to understand the science of those times, there was no theory of evolution, no real understanding of how we were created at all. These men had seen the damage that a religious controlled society could bring to those who resided there, and promised to find another way. They did this, and did this brilliantly, but without losing their faith, it in fact strengthened their faith, I am convinced of that. They were ahead of their time, but one only needs to look at America today, to see that we are a people of faith. You confuse frustration with lack of faith, of course they were tired of the religious wars, but their faith guided them to this great document, the landscape of America today is my proof.

 

[Engimo]

If you can't see the evidence of faith in those times, I can't help you. Being a man of faith, and allowing a faith to dominate, are two really different things, this was their position. You also have to understand the science of those times, there was no theory of evolution, no real understanding of how we were created at all. These men had seen the damage that a religious controlled society could bring to those who resided there, and promised to find another way. They did this, and did this brilliantly, but without losing their faith, it in fact strengthened their faith, I am convinced of that. They were ahead of their time, but one only needs to look at America today, to see that we are a people of faith. You confuse frustration with lack of faith, of course they were tired of the religious wars, but their faith guided them to this great document, the landscape of America today is my proof.

...That doesn't prove anything. The current composition of America says absolutely nothing about what ideas the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the Constitution. The fact that the majority of the country in Christian has absolutely no bearing on the spirit of the Constitution. You're not presenting any evidence, you're just hand-waving and saying "Oh, it's obvious."

 

[Deegan]

Yeah especially since (going out on a limb here) 1000 people weren't involved in making the Constitution.

But how many were involved in the Revolution, since I added that in the equation? Damn, I thought you were better then that, in too much of a hurry I suspect.:lol: