Biden reverses cruel family separation policy and works to reunite traumatized children with their loved ones.

[GummyVitamins]

Thank you for the information.

6,200 does not seem like a very big number in comparison to the number of total people apprehended, 473,000.

A couple years ago ICE and/or Border Patrol did a small scale study in Texas where where they gave rapid DNA tests to people claiming familial relationships while apprehended attempting illegal entry. The tests showed something like one quarter of the people tested were lying.

The problem is that coyotes were trained that if you have a kid with you when you cross the border you are free to go. It was hard for us to verify and the kids were afraid to say otherwise. Additionally, one-third of females coming illegally across the border are sexually assaulted/abused. Young girls coming across the border are often found with birth control and/or Plan B pills. Parents/coyotes will put pre-teen girls on birth control because they know the risks of them being raped on the way.

The idea that allowing illegal immigration is altruistic or a victimless crime is bullshit.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

That's some promising info.

Is this a sarcastic comment or does it actually relieve you somewhat to know that 89% of people claiming asylum go through the process and don't just vanish into the night?

Do we know what the rate of asylum approval is, as that ultimately results in identical results at the end of the day. I guess I should clarify that my main goal is to shrink the labor pool as a forcing mechanism to increase wages without increasing unemployment. I prefer pretty much all immigration from all countries to be heavily reduced, and this would include the H1B visas.

I don't know, and quite frankly, I don't care. My qualm is the unnecessary cruelty. We don't have to be cruel to have strict immigration policies or any particular policy for that matter.

All of this suppresses wages, and the irony is that immigration/illegal immigration actually hurts communities of color more than any other.

That's fine. But you can restrict immigration without separating families.

 

[Fishking]

Is this a sarcastic comment or does it actually relieve you somewhat to know that 89% of people claiming asylum go through the process and don't just vanish into the night?

I don't know, and quite frankly, I don't care. My qualm is the unnecessary cruelty. We don't have to be cruel to have strict immigration policies or any particular policy for that matter.

That's fine. But you can restrict immigration without separating families.

Yes, you can restrict immigration without separating families but a court ruling made it much harder. If you take a more restrictive approach to illegal immigration because the ruling made it so you're not allowed to keep children with adults, even if they are family. So if you detain the adults you automatically have to separate them.

And no...it wasn't sarcasm.

 

[366h34d]

Nobody has an issue with children being detained who arrived on their own or without their parents. That's not the problem. The problem from a humanitarian perspective was the policy of separating families in order to terrorize would-be illegal immigrants.



That's not the strategy. Most of the people claiming asylum go through the process.

(DOJ) figures show that 89 percent of all asylum applicants attended their final court hearing to receive a decision on their application. When families and unaccompanied children have access to legal representation, the rate of compliance with immigration court obligations is nearly 98 percent.

FACT CHECK: Asylum Seekers Regularly Attend Immigration Court Hearings - Human Rights First

Recent data shows that asylum seekers continue to appear for immigration court proceedings at high rates. In fiscal year 2018, Department of Justice (DOJ) figures show that 89 percent of all asylum applicants attended their final court hearing to receive a decision on their application. When...

www.humanrightsfirst.org

sometimes, I really admire people twisting and turning the fact. It is because the number does not add.

from your URL
..... Out of 10,427 decisions in fiscal year 2018 for released asylum seekers, only 160 received removal orders because they missed a court hearing—resulting in a 98.5 percent court hearing compliance rate. .....

I don't understand the 10,427 decisions and the 473,000 (from the above post), each decision for ~45 people ??. Could you mind explain it to me?

 

[366h34d]

....


That's fine. But you can restrict immigration without separating families.

How can you know they are family without testing???

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Yes, you can restrict immigration without separating families but a court ruling made it much harder.

If they don't claim asylum they can be sent back immediately using civil procedures.

If they do claim asylum, and 89% of the people claiming asylum actually show up to their final court hearing, then what's the problem?

If you take a more restrictive approach to illegal immigration because the ruling made it so you're not allowed to keep children with adults, even if they are family. So if you detain the adults you automatically have to separate them.

You don't have to separate the families if you process the deportations using civil procedures.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

How can you know they are family without testing???

When they start ****ing crying uncontrollably after you separate them.

When their mothers scream in agony when their baby is ripped from their arms.

When their children stare at the wall for hours because they are suffering from depression because it's slowly dawning on them they will never see their parents again.

That is how you know they are family without testing them.

Now, put yourself in their shoes. Show a little empathy.

How would you feel if someone took your children away from you?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

sometimes, I really admire people twisting and turning the fact. It is because the number does not add.

Please make your argument. I'd like to see it.

I don't understand the 10,427 decisions and the 473,000 (from the above post), each decision for ~45 people ??. Could you mind explain it to me?

They are two separate issues. The 10.4k decisions is a references to the total number of asylum cases. The 473k number is a reference to the number of family units apprehended. The numbers have nothing to do with each other.

 

[dixon01767]

You see, the left doesn't care about Americans as it's own group, per se. They do care if the Americans are part of some other special demographic group that they've deemed the only ones worthy of caring about but as a stand-alone group of "Americans" they don't care for them.

I bet, that even though blacks are only 13% of the population, they account for 26% of the US citizens separated from their children following incarceration by the racist white supremacist police.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

A couple years ago ICE and/or Border Patrol did a small scale study in Texas where where they gave rapid DNA tests to people claiming familial relationships while apprehended attempting illegal entry. The tests showed something like one quarter of the people tested were lying.

Would you be so kind as to share a link? I'd like to see some supporting evidence for this assertion. Please, and thanks.

Because, be honest, what this all really boils down to is you don't like them, and you'll look for any excuse to justify treating them like shit.

The problem is that coyotes were trained that if you have a kid with you when you cross the border you are free to go. It was hard for us to verify and the kids were afraid to say otherwise. Additionally, one-third of females coming illegally across the border are sexually assaulted/abused. Young girls coming across the border are often found with birth control and/or Plan B pills. Parents/coyotes will put pre-teen girls on birth control because they know the risks of them being raped on the way.

The idea that allowing illegal immigration is altruistic or a victimless crime is bullshit.

We cannot control what other people do.

We cannot control what these illegal immigrants do before they come to our border.

We cannot control what these criminals do who exploit the illegal immigrants.

We can only control what we do.

And we can choose to enforce our laws and secure the border while also treating illegal immigrants as humanely as possible.

We don't have to be cruel. It's a choice we make.

And anyone who supports basically kidnapping children from their parents in order to terrorize illegal immigrants from coming here is a ****ing asshole. They are evil.

How would you feel if your children were taken from you?

And you sit there and pretend that things Trump did were okay. They WERE NOT. It was EVIL. It was wrong for our government to separate these families.

 

[366h34d]

Please make your argument. I'd like to see it.



They are two separate issues. The 10.4k decisions is a references to the total number of asylum cases. The 473k number is a reference to the number of family units apprehended. The numbers have nothing to do with each other.

So what happens to 473k families? all send back??

 

[W_Heisenberg]

So what happens to 473k families? all send back??

You are using the present tense, so are you asking about what policy I would propose, or are you asking what happened to these people?

In any case, that's not the issue that concerns me. The thing that concerns me is the unnecessary cruelty of separating the families when it doesn't need to be done.

 

[366h34d]

You are using the present tense, so are you asking about what policy I would propose, or are you asking what happened to these people?

In any case, that's not the issue that concerns me. The thing that concerns me is the unnecessary cruelty of separating the families when it doesn't need to be done.

so, in other words, you don't know where they are now, and you can not prove they are family

 

[W_Heisenberg]

so, in other words, you don't know where they are now

Do your own homework:

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2019/refugee_and_asylee_2019.pdf

CBP Enforcement Statistics Fiscal Year 2020

U.S. Customs and Border Protection is the nation’s largest federal law enforcement agency charged with securing the nation’s borders and facilitating international travel and trade. Our top priority is to keep terrorists and their weapons from entering the United States.At the nation’s more than...

www.cbp.gov

and you can not prove they are family

There is no obligation to prove they are family. It's not necessary.

 

[Oborosen]

Republicans can no longer make the argument that they're only against illegal immigration, considering that under Trump they supported curbing legal immigration as well.

That's not actually a point. Seeing as both parties have brought about reasonable arguments for limiting certain aspects of the bloated immigration structure.
You're statement basically means that even the democrats can no longer make that exact same argument.

I'm also not a republican, so there's that as well.

 

[GummyVitamins]

Would you be so kind as to share a link? I'd like to see some supporting evidence for this assertion. Please, and thanks.

Because, be honest, what this all really boils down to is you don't like kids, and you'll look for any excuse to justify treating them like shit.

With that attitude you can look it up yourself. Government official said something like 30% and Politifact said it was more like 20%. In either event, to be honest, what this all really boils down to is you don't like them and you'll look for any excuse to justify child trafficking.

We cannot control what other people do.
We cannot control what these illegal immigrants do before they come to our border.
We cannot control what these criminals do who exploit the illegal immigrants.

These are really stupid statements. Yes, we can control outcomes. When we know there are an abundance of women being trafficked over the border who are being raped we can close the incentive for the coyotes to bring them into the country illegally. The incentive is unlawful entry into the United States due to government malfeasance and disregard for people's safety. I understand you want to support policies because they result in more women and children being raped, but it's still wrong. We can and have influenced the number of people being trafficked into our country which results in less sexual assault and rape. I understand you're pretty high up on that horse of yours so reality is a little hard to see, but come on down and open your eyes. Your objectively false statements to defend this behavior is tiring.

 

[austrianecon]

I hope we can work towards policies with more humanity in them. I do hope for that.

Send em back as a family. That humane enough?

 

[Fishking]

I bet, that even though blacks are only 13% of the population, they account for 26% of the US citizens separated from their children following incarceration by the racist white supremacist police.

Are you talking about the real police or are you going to make ridiculous statements about imaginary police in the most cliché way possible?

 

[Oborosen]

" In my opinion, Curbing legal immigration is also a good idea "
Lmao
Yeah fascist is a more apt descriptor

Defaulting to calling someone a fascist already huh?
Maybe you should work on your debating skills before you reveal just how pathetic your methodology is. Or at least not be so eager in doing so.

 

[screenwriter]

There is nothing wrong with immigration. Our country was founded by immigration. Maybe your great grandparents shouldn't have been allowed in, right?

Do you see any difference in legal vs illegal immigration?

 

[Oborosen]

Are you talking about the real police or are you going to make ridiculous statements about imaginary police in the most cliché way possible?

I'm fully betting that it's the imaginary variations which plague their minds.

 

[dixon01767]

Are you talking about the real police or are you going to make ridiculous statements about imaginary police in the most cliché way possible?

It was sarcasm. The left would oppose family separation of US citizens if they knew it disproportionately effects the blacks.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

With that attitude you can look it up yourself. Government official said something like 30% and Politifact said it was more like 20%. In either event, to be honest, what this all really boils down to is you don't like them and you'll look for any excuse to justify child trafficking.

I'm not going to help someone else make their own argument. I put a lot of effort into my posts, generally, and I expect others to do the same.

These are really stupid statements. Yes, we can control outcomes. When we know there are an abundance of women being trafficked over the border who are being raped we can close the incentive for the coyotes to bring them into the country illegally. The incentive is unlawful entry into the United States due to government malfeasance and disregard for people's safety. I understand you want to support policies because they result in more women and children being raped, but it's still wrong. We can and have influenced the number of people being trafficked into our country which results in less sexual assault and rape. I understand you're pretty high up on that horse of yours so reality is a little hard to see, but come on down and open your eyes. Your objectively false statements to defend this behavior is tiring.

My point is very simple. We have the ability to turn people away and to increase border security, without separating immigrant families. The reason why this was done is that Trump and the people who supported Trump liked the idea of treating immigrants like shit. Also, the Trump administration thought if they could instill terror in the hearts of immigrant families so they would be discouraged from coming.

I understand you're pretty high up on that horse of yours so reality is a little hard to see,

It's not about being on a high horse. It's about the difference between right and wrong. It's about treating people with dignity and respect.

Illegal immigrants may not be citizens, but they are still human beings.

 

[The Hairy Fiddler]

Do you see any difference in legal vs illegal immigration?

Yes big difference. One's legal. one's illegal. I like legal. don't like illegal. Immigrants need to abide by our guidelines when coming here.

 

[GummyVitamins]

I'm not going to help someone else make their own argument. I put a lot of effort into my posts, generally, and I expect others to do the same.

You don't have to help my "argument." My argument has been made. You're welcome to educate yourself, but we know you're just looking for an excuse to support child trafficking and rape so you won't.

My point is very simple. We have the ability to turn people away and to increase border security, without separating immigrant families. The reason why this was done is that Trump and the people who supported Trump liked the idea of treating immigrants like shit. Also, the Trump administration thought if they could instill terror in the hearts of immigrant families so they would be discouraged from coming.

No, we don't have the ability to easily turn people away when they make asylum claims... which is what they do.

It's not about being on a high horse. It's about the difference between right and wrong. It's about treating people with dignity and respect.

Illegal immigrants may not be citizens, but they are still human beings.

Supporting actions that increase child trafficking and rape is wrong and is not "treating people with dignity and respect." The cartels are very happy to have you as an ally. The answer isn't to change things in such a way as to support increased abuse and lie about our policies that contributed to the increases. The answer is to support actual immigration reform and more enforcement. The more we enforce and protect our border the less people will try to come here illegally and therefore the less people will be killed, raped and trafficked. As it stands it's very easy to overwhelm the system due to all the red tape... which is why caravans began forming as soon as Biden won the election. They're anticipating a return to your wackadoo policies and defenses of them.