Biden is not serious about getting the debt under control

[smallvoice]

America's military should be cut by half. Even then we would be spending as much as all the rest of the world combined. Let our allies step up their militaries and defend themselves

If we were to get In a real war the fact that we don't make anything any more will hurt us a lot more than a reduced military footprint.

That's EXACTLY what President Trump said, yet you voted for Ol' Sleepy Joe.

 

[tshade]

1) A bachelor's in education is not a rigorous degree curriculum, it isn't chemical engineering and it doesn't have a high threshold for completion
2) The quality of the school you go to doesn't matter in terms of career opportunity or advancement. In PA you have the "teacher schools", which are largely West Chester, Kutztown, Shippensburg etc. They are all very mediocre schools that are very easy to get into.
3) The working hours are something of a joke honestly. Again this varies by location, but in eastern PA it often looked like 5 teaching periods a day, 186 working days a year. It was literally an ~800 hour/yr job. If you look at it that way, it is 800 hours for a total comp of ~100k. That's ~$125/hr in cost, which is largely in line with what a physician gets paid.

We pay a baby sitter $5/hour for our child. Our teachers have 5 or six classes daily of 20 - 30 students. Make it 25 for average. 25 X 5 dollars = $125 per period. $125 X 5 = 625 dollars daily. Times 180 =$112, 500 a year. And they do a LOT more than just babysit. What am I missing here?

 

[tshade]

Now, when I worked with PSERs and school boards, the teachers union would argue about prep time, curriculum prep, grading, tutoring etc. In reality though, 99% of teachers would tell you that 3-4 years in all of that went away as your teaching plan was sorted out and changed very little year to year, you graded during classes, and tutoring was rare generally.

Again---depends on the teacher and school. My friends in teaching often had their cirriculum swithed, and grading depended on what they were grading. Essays and papers are taken very seriously by many teachers. Tutoring was always done here. It sounds like something is knocking the "calling" out from the teachers you speak of. Again, you make good points, but I guess I know too many great teachers and those characterizations don't fit my experience.....

 

[tshade]

. On top of that they all talked about their "advanced educations" when in reality it was joke degrees, from joke online programs, paid by the school district, because it gave them an automatic big raise and didn't help them do their job at all. I also disagree with the fact that we don't pay people based on their value or difficulty of their jobs. One of the most valuable jobs in society is sanitation, but trash men don't get paid well, nor do agricultural workers. Difficulty isn't it either, look at the hardest and dangerous manual labor jobs, they don't get paid well either. Generally the way you determine compensation in scarcity and performance, ie: how hard is it to replace someone of a skillset. On paper, the skillset required to be a teacher is: mediocre high school student, attends mediocre university, achieving mediocre degree. Somehow in some states that is worth a fortune and other states it isn't. The difference? Union strength. In PA the unions are extremely strong and thus you get this disconnect in reality. The teachers unions will tell you that this is how you get good schools and good outcomes, but there has been exhaustive studies showing spending and education outcomes are not correlated at all.

Yes, this seems harsh. Again, you stereotype with the degrees and colleges----not all teachers go to the same colleges, and certainly not all teachers get those raises for taking courses. How do you measure "value of a job" ??? Or "diifficulty". I've known too many teachers who have done multiple types of jobs, including hard labor, but will also say teaching was more demanding. I don't doubt them. Too many stories of people leaving the classroom for normal jobs that pay the same or more with half the stress. What is "a fortune" ?? I don't look at middle class income as "a fortune"...............Performance follows the money across the nation = poor communities equal poor test scores, etc..... But there are MANY dynamics that go into performance from students. Teachers do not work with the best "material" to 'mold' a product from----in fact it is usually quite 'defective' = try making a part for GM cars in your stamped metals plant with defective rolls of brass !! For some students, acheiving a 'C' grade is a miracle thanks to an amazing teacher.........

 

[tshade]

Y

I find it frustrating because I see teachers try to play the game of selfless public service, but in reality their unions (at least in my experience) are as bad as any union I have ever even read about. The problem is that they are a union that can't fail because in PA the school boards have the power to tax. So they can be as unreasonable as they want and it won't ever die off, just raise taxes again and again.

I agree that unions can be nasty-------but those guys don't teach. In Pa. the unions have the upper hand thanks to Act 88. No need to tax unreasonably.

 

[tshade]

Where I live now, just outside of Nashville, has public schools that will rival anything in PA, but at half the cost or less. Why? Unions.




It depends on the comparison. My issue is that the average teacher is a very average worker and very average academic performer, yet they are often dramatically over compensated in that light. Look, if you find me a great teacher who drives real results with kids in a real subject material, I will pay that person through the roof. I have however seen the vast majority of experience teachers being time-card employees who have tenure and job security.

Depends on the school. I coach for a little catholic school where teachers make $20,000 a year ( not kidding) with all the degrees , etc......and the education there is amazing. All wealthy people in the area send their kids there. What is a reasonable salary for a teacher? Heck of a question. In my experience, teacher are anything but "average". But you are right-------teacher value can vary. Who is going to measure that?????

 

[bave]

We pay a baby sitter $5/hour for our child. Our teachers have 5 or six classes daily of 20 - 30 students. Make it 25 for average. 25 X 5 dollars = $125 per period. $125 X 5 = 625 dollars daily. Times 180 =$112, 500 a year. And they do a LOT more than just babysit. What am I missing here?

It doesn't work that way and I think we both know it. Look at what someone gets to work at a daycare facility, ~$15/hr, that's your logic.

Again---depends on the teacher and school. My friends in teaching often had their cirriculum swithed, and grading depended on what they were grading. Essays and papers are taken very seriously by many teachers. Tutoring was always done here. It sounds like something is knocking the "calling" out from the teachers you speak of. Again, you make good points, but I guess I know too many great teachers and those characterizations don't fit my experience.....

One of my biggest issues with your point of view is that you believe what teachers are presenting to you. It's an act, the same way it is an act from cops, the military, or those in healthcare. People pretend it is all about a higher virtue or calling. It may have been influenced about that initially, but it is almost never staying that way. Find some people in these professions who you are really close with and can have real private conversations with and talk about this and see if it changes. I have close connections to all of these professions and I hear this all the time, pretty universally, and all over the country. Even when I was on a school board, my private conversations with their union steward were always "Yea, realistically we spend a few hours a year on curriculum at most".

Yes, this seems harsh. Again, you stereotype with the degrees and colleges----not all teachers go to the same colleges, and certainly not all teachers get those raises for taking courses. How do you measure "value of a job" ??? Or "diifficulty". I've known too many teachers who have done multiple types of jobs, including hard labor, but will also say teaching was more demanding. I don't doubt them. Too many stories of people leaving the classroom for normal jobs that pay the same or more with half the stress. What is "a fortune" ?? I don't look at middle class income as "a fortune"...............Performance follows the money across the nation = poor communities equal poor test scores, etc..... But there are MANY dynamics that go into performance from students. Teachers do not work with the best "material" to 'mold' a product from----in fact it is usually quite 'defective' = try making a part for GM cars in your stamped metals plant with defective rolls of brass !! For some students, acheiving a 'C' grade is a miracle thanks to an amazing teacher.........

When was the last time you heard of a teacher leaving a tenured teaching job to go take a job as an ice road trucker, longshoreman, or lumberjack? Everyone always thinks they are undervalued, underpaid, and disrespected, it is human nature. What I will tell you that the raw ability it takes, academically speaking, is a joke. Just think about this for a second. Teachers in the district I was on the board of started out at ~$52k (this was over 10 years ago). They had a ridiculous pension/healthcare contributions. Getting a masters degree, paid for by the district, was an immediate $8k/yr bump in salary, no questions asked. The average teacher on payroll there base salary was something like ~82k, total comp in the ~115-120k range. What other job are you aware of where someone gets a total comp figure like that, with a mediocre education, with extremely limited working hours, 100% job security, etc? Do you have a single comparison? The closest I can come up with is similar geographic area public employees/cops.

I agree, you can't measure performance by standardized test scores. Too many teachers unions will tout their amazing academic success, when their district is made up of entirely white collar professionals. I have long been a believer that spending in education is less relevant in outcome compared to parental involvement, values, and genetics. How do you measure a true high performing teacher? Complicated answer, don't know that I have it, but I know the teachers unions in PA don't want to hear a word about it. They want to make sure the half-assed gym teacher gets paid the same as the AP Chemistry teacher for some reason.

 

[bave]

I agree that unions can be nasty-------but those guys don't teach. In Pa. the unions have the upper hand thanks to Act 88. No need to tax unreasonably.

They tax unreasonably because they can and they have been convinced their job is amazingly difficult and unique, it's not. I wish someone could explain to me how a West Chester University, elementary education major, who teachers middle school PE is worth ~100k+/yr, for a ~1000/hr a year job. On an hourly basis that is in line with physicians, way above engineers, etc. It's insanity. Meanwhile, in other places where the spending is more reasonable the results are almost identical.

Depends on the school. I coach for a little catholic school where teachers make $20,000 a year ( not kidding) with all the degrees , etc......and the education there is amazing. All wealthy people in the area send their kids there. What is a reasonable salary for a teacher? Heck of a question. In my experience, teacher are anything but "average". But you are right-------teacher value can vary. Who is going to measure that?????

You hit on a great point that went over like a lead balloon with the unions I dealt with. If public teachers are so great why are the best young teachers going to private schools for less money, less benefits, more hours? None of them had the answer to that. Suddenly it wasn't "about the kids", it was about the comp. Again, no argument that human beings go to work to make money, just be honest about it. I also don't have a problem with someone getting paid to do extra things in education, I have a problem with it when they only do it for pension purposes.

How you calculate a teacher's pay is difficult, but unions shouldn't be involved imo. I don't think unions have a place representing government employees. You don't need a union to fight back against a powerful aggressive corporation when you are working for the community. Moreover, I have yet to see that paying government employees (of all stripes) yields any difference in outcome.

I don't mean to pick on teachers, this is much more about government employees in strong government employee union states effectively breaking the system in their favor.

 

[bave]

America's military should be cut by half. Even then we would be spending as much as all the rest of the world combined. Let our allies step up their militaries and defend themselves

If we were to get In a real war the fact that we don't make anything any more will hurt us a lot more than a reduced military footprint.

Look at NATO spending. Major EU nations (ex UK) are all massively and consistently underspending compared to their NATO *obligations*. We are carrying the weight for them and they refuse to do anything about it. We should be withdrawing all combat troops from EU and just maintaining our bases in Italy and Germany for our logistical needs only. Meanwhile, Germany is actively lobbying to provide more financial support (ie: Nord2) to the very enemy they are begging us to protect them from? F that.

btw, Trump blocked Nord-2, Biden let that puppy restart. Thanks Joe.

 

[Sand Castle]

FYI, the American Conservatives have brought us WAY closer to fascism than the left has brought us to communism. The hyper-nationalism, built around a white, christian ideal, the elitist policy of debt and tax cuts, the militarism, etc. I'm not the only one who's noticed.

Maybe if you spent less time laughing and more time reading history, you and your fascist brethren would see yourselves in that history, like a cruel mirror, and you might not find it so funny.

There's a particular kind of shamelessness in people who laugh at their own evil. That pathological apathy to harm has come to define today's GOP and was a feature of fascist movements throughout history.

It's looking like the average Republican believes, Fascist type rule is great, control them Liberals.

Although, their shortsighted thinking misses the fact that Fascist control will rule everyone not in the power heirarcy.

Freedoms, choice, see ya

 

[Sand Castle]

Are you really that unable to respond to my post?

The military NEEDS lots of manpower, and the US government pays for it. All your whining about how much it costs or how many contractors means nothing. There may be "non-competitive" contracts, but not one that I ever worked on was of that type. You flying the race and poverty flag is the only answer you have.

Shows some facts, not anecdotes, leave out the actual military I agree with having a strong defense.

Race! Well using that is just plain b. S. On your part.

So what's up with pouring billions into the Raytheons and millions of CEO pockets, while many Americans just for you, All Races and Color, are working poor.

Let's balance our investments and spending

 

[Sand Castle]

That's EXACTLY what President Trump said, yet you voted for Ol' Sleepy Joe.

Key trump "said" Donald had trouble with the "doing"

 

[KLATTU]

I was up all night...AGAIN.
Tossing and turning. Worry gnawing away at my insides like a hungry rodent.

Downright nauseous with anxiety.

You guessed it: the National Debt was on my mind.

>pause for effect<

LMMFAO!!

LOL, I'm just kidding. I dont give a crap about that.
You know: much like you didn't give a crap about it 6 months ago.

Laffriot-
Well I always gave a crap about it-Republican or Democrat.
but maybe I shouldn't.
All spending-> investment . Will pay back in the end

 

[jonny5]

100% agreed! However, a covert space force is expensive!

About 1/3000th of social spending though.

 

[jonny5]

Republican tax cuts for the rich and the federal debt

 

[rickc]

 

[bave]

Keep repeating the same garbage, it makes it easier to copy and paste my response. Seriously, do you think you are convincing anyone of anything with such a bullshit chart? You would have to be a total moron to believe that actually showed anything.

View attachment 67338622

 

[KLATTU]

FYI, the American Conservatives have brought us WAY closer to fascism than the left has brought us to communism. The hyper-nationalism, built around a white, christian ideal, the elitist policy of debt and tax cuts, the militarism, etc. I'm not the only one who's noticed.

Maybe if you spent less time laughing and more time reading history, you and your fascist brethren would see yourselves in that history, like a cruel mirror, and you might not find it so funny.

There's a particular kind of shamelessness in people who laugh at their own evil. That pathological apathy to harm has come to define today's GOP and was a feature of fascist movements throughout history.

facism....
LAFF

 

[KLATTU]

The title of the thread is "Biden Is Not Serious About Getting the Debt Under Control"

The GOP isn't serious about American citizens who don't have health insurance.
The GOP isn't serious about American families who can't afford child care while they go to work.
The GOP isn't serious about investing in the nation's future.
The GOP isn't serious about people getting paid poverty-level wages while corporations make record profits.
The GOP isn't serious about climate change.

There's lots to get serious about. It's time to get started.

Govt' fixes EVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVerything. Vote. Dem.! Got it!!!

LAFFRIOT!!!!

 

[D_NATURED]

It's looking like the average Republican believes, Fascist type rule is great, control them Liberals.

Although, their shortsighted thinking misses the fact that Fascist control will rule everyone not in the power heirarcy.

Freedoms, choice, see ya

What they've done is to misuse and redefine fascism in a very narrow way that they love to use against their enemies (ie., islamo-fascism) and, as such, pretend they are the enemies, not the practitioners, of it. They love to find the word "socialist" in the NAZI acronym and overlook the similarities between what the fascists actually stood for that mirrors their own thinking. There is, after all, some overlap between what historical fascists have done and what modern fascists call socialism today. In both cases you might have government run healthcare but, in the fascist version, it's about consolidated power, not the moral, distribution of services.

Fascism, like Republicanism, is not a small government ideology -despite their bleating- and relies on absolute governmental power over the lives of people rather than the power of people over government. In fascism, the money, NOT the people, is represented and it is the wealthy who decide everyone's fate. Violence, to them, is more efficient than votes.

And, the wealth-worshiping, authoritarian bigots on the right can always rely on their constituents' boundless ignorance and credulity. There is no conspiracy, no matter how dumb, that they won't believe if it villifies the right group. Liberals, gays, minorities, and intellectuals all find themselves in the sights of fascist dogma and, eventually, much worse.

It is their ignorance and denial that is the hallmark of their pathology. Anger and undeserved faith is the foundation of their philosophy. Even if they could read history, they'd never believe it. Even as they March the rest of us in to camps, they'll disavow the historical continuity of their sickness. The conservative circle of death keeps spinning. That is, sincerely, where they're headed.

 

[smallvoice]

Shows some facts, not anecdotes, leave out the actual military I agree with having a strong defense.

Race! Well using that is just plain b. S. On your part.

So what's up with pouring billions into the Raytheons and millions of CEO pockets, while many Americans just for you, All Races and Color, are working poor.

Let's balance our investments and spending

It's a total package, we need the support contractors because the liberals scream bloody murder when the in-uniform numbers go up. We can do it in uniform, or not, but a strong defense needs both.

You are the one who dragged race into the discussion, not me.

Do you have any idea what you mean by "...Let's balance our investments and spending"?

I don't think you know anything actual about the military, except what MSNBC tells you and there is never any truth in what they say.

 

[smallvoice]

Key trump "said" Donald had trouble with the "doing"

You can thank Pelosi and Schumer, two wasted wads, for that outcome.

 

[Sand Castle]

It's a total package, we need the support contractors because the liberals scream bloody murder when the in-uniform numbers go up. We can do it in uniform, or not, but a strong defense needs both.

You are the one who dragged race into the discussion, not me.

Do you have any idea what you mean by "...Let's balance our investments and spending"?

I don't think you know anything actual about the military, except what MSNBC tells you and there is never any truth in what they say.

What is msnbc? I don't watch it. Let me reiterate, I knew people retired from military and then working private defense contractors. This system needs reform. Of course we need defense contractors, former military are well suited for jobs; but the system is bloated (please re-read my post with investigated abuse of tax dollars to defense contractors).

 

[Sand Castle]

You can thank Pelosi and Schumer, two wasted wads, for that outcome.

Trump is surely week when it comes to substance. Kind of like a dog, all bark and no bite.

 

[Sand Castle]

You can thank Pelosi and Schumer, two wasted wads, for that outcome.

Well after this:
Mitch McConnell Brags About Blocking Obama For 2 Years, Then Laughs About It

Obama did:

Here are 28 of President Obama's biggest accomplishments as President of the United States.

1 – Rescued the country from the Great Recession, cutting the unemployment rate from 10% to 4.7% over six years

2 – Signed the Affordable Care Act which provided health insurance to over 20 million uninsured Americans

3 – Ended the war in Iraq


freestar
4 – Ordered for the capture and killing of Osama Bin Laden

5 – Passed the $787 billion America Recovery and Reinvestment Act to spur economic growth during the Great Recession

6 – Supported the LGBT community's fight for marriage equality


freestar
7 – Commuted the sentences of nearly 1200 drug offenders to reverse “unjust and outdated prison sentences"

8 – Saved the U.S. auto industry

9 – Helped put the U.S. ontrack for energy independence by 2020


freestar
10 – Began the drawdown of troops in Afghanistan

11 – Signed the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals allowing as many as 5 million people living in the U.S. illegally to avoid deportation and receive work permits

12 –Signed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act to re-regulate the financial sector


freestar
13 – Dropped the veteran homeless rate by 50 percent

14 – Reversed Bush-era torture policies

15 – Began the process of normalizing relations with Cuba


freestar
16 – Increased Department of Veteran Affairs funding

17 – Signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act

18 – Boosted fuel efficiency standards for cars


freestar
19 – Improved school nutrition with the Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act

20 – Repealed the military's “Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy

21 – Signed the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, making it a federal crime to assault anyone based on sexual or gender identification

22 – Helped negotiate the landmark Iran Nuclear Deal

23 – He signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act to combat pay discrimination against women

24 – Nominated Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court, making her the first Hispanic ever to serve as a justice

25 – Supported veterans through a $78 billion tuition assistance GI bill

26 – Won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 “for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"

27 – Launched My Brother's Keeper, a White House initiative designed to help young minorities achieve their full potential


freestar
28 – Expanded embryonic stem cell research leading to groundbreaking work in areas including spinal injury treatment and cancer

28 Of Barack Obama’s Greatest Achievements As President Of The United States

What would you add or remove from this list?

www.good.is