Bashing Religion

[it's just me]

Really? Gee, silly me. That went right over my head.

:roll:

I endeavor to be accurate.

 

[stevecanuck]

Forgive me for going back to the issue of Trump violently clearing Lafayette Park of peaceful protesters and Australian journalists so that he could stage his photo opportunity awkwardly holding The Bible as if it were a weight he was lifting. I am new here and I do not know all the players about whom you are speaking. I am, however, outraged at Trump. My outrage is rooted more in an ingrained sense of my rights as an American being trampled by what Trump, Barr, et al did than by Trump's attempted use of religion. That "walk across the park" was a very, very big deal because it violated many laws and many norms and Trump is not above the law. Whenever he gets away with an illegal act, it reinforces his sense that he can get away with more.

Welcome to DP. You will encounter some very rude people here if you stay, but I hope you do (stay, that is).

 

[it's just me]

Welcome to DP. You will encounter some very rude people here if you stay, but I hope you do (stay, that is).

No quarter asked, no quarter given.

 

[Valery]

You do not have to be religious to be a good person. I am an Atheist. Let me give you an idea of a few of the things I have done for people in Thailand and Vietnam
- Send 3 people to school.
- Send 2 people to the doctor.
- I must have given away between 10 and 15 telephones to people who did not have a phone. (new and in the box, bought for this purpose.)
- Build a new house for my wife parents.
- After a small accident a couple lost half there household that was in the motorbike with sidecar. I reimbursed the damaged goods. I saw that they were moving all there belonging. And if a household fits on a bike, well than they need help of course.
- After a tragic Typhoon in Vietnam I collected money and build 26 new houses.

Do not give me this charity nonsense in name of religion. You are either a good person or you are not. And that has got NOTHING to do with religion. It has to do with your own nature and how you have been brought up. If it is religion what got you there. Well, that is great, and I really mean that. But there is plenty of people who are religious and are very bad people. Why do you think they have a chapel in prison and a preach you can talk to? And at the same time there is plenty of good people who are not Christian. And if one fails to see that, sorry, but than I can only conclude that this person is a bad person.

Joey

But the good deeds of those who don't believe, weigh nothing on the day of judgment.

 

[watsup]

But the good deeds of those who don't believe, weigh nothing on the day of judgment.

Day of judgement blah blah blah. No such thing.
And besides that, if there truly is a "just" God, then those who do good deeds will indeed be rewarded on "judgement day", no matter what the dogma of religion says.

 

[Valery]

Do tell.

What's wrong with homosexual behavior?
Why should it be "rejected" by any faith?

Because God condemned it in His revelations.

If a person follows something other than Islam, their rejection of homosexuality hopefully helps the society a little bit in that respect.

 

[watsup]

Because God condemned it in His revelations.

If a person follows something other than Islam, their rejection of homosexuality hopefully helps the society a little bit in that respect.

We live in a civil society with laws, and those laws say that homosexuality is legal under the Constitution. That is all that the gays really need to know.
And, BTW, they can also adopt children.

 

[Dragonfly]

Because God condemned it in His revelations.

If a person follows something other than Islam, their rejection of homosexuality hopefully helps the society a little bit in that respect.

Why would god condemn something that god created?

Also, why would society be helped by rejecting homosexuality?


But in your view society wouldn't be harmed at all by things like:

1) pedophilia (child brides)
2) mercy killing
3) forced marriage
4) killing women who get raped
5) killing people for apostasy
6) killing people for drawing Mohammed

...

 

[Valery]

Day of judgement blah blah blah. No such thing.
And besides that, if there truly is a "just" God, then those who do good deeds will indeed be rewarded on "judgement day", no matter what the dogma of religion says.

"Abu Bakr Al-Hisni may Allaah have mercy upon him wrote:

"There is no doubt that the punishment in the Hereafter shall be enduring given the permanency of its cause; that is harboring the intention to hold on to disbelief. There is no doubt that had the disbelievers lived forever, they would have held on to disbelief. Similarly, the believer deserves to abide in Paradise eternally for the same reason; this is what is meant by the hadeeth that reads, 'The intention of the believer is better than his action.'""
Eternal punishment for the disbelievers is part of the wisdom of Allaah - Islamweb - Fatwas

 

[zyzygy]

"Abu Bakr Al-Hisni may Allaah have mercy upon him wrote:

"There is no doubt that the punishment in the Hereafter shall be enduring given the permanency of its cause; that is harboring the intention to hold on to disbelief. There is no doubt that had the disbelievers lived forever, they would have held on to disbelief. Similarly, the believer deserves to abide in Paradise eternally for the same reason; this is what is meant by the hadeeth that reads, 'The intention of the believer is better than his action.'""
Eternal punishment for the disbelievers is part of the wisdom of Allaah - Islamweb - Fatwas

Holy books are not evidence. This is not a preaching forum. Do you have any evidence of your claims?

 

[Valery]

Why would god condemn something that god created?

Also, why would society be helped by rejecting homosexuality?


But in your view society wouldn't be harmed at all by things like:

1) pedophilia (child brides)
2) mercy killing
3) forced marriage
4) killing women who get raped
5) killing people for apostasy
6) killing people for drawing Mohammed

...

This life is test.

Because sin creates immorality in society, aside from many other more specific harms like breaking up of families.

Pedophilia is an illness.
What is mercy killing?
no forced marriage in Islam.
who kills women who get raped? Rapists?
It's the law - indeed beneficial for society. Everything Allah commands is beneficial.
if a crime is severe enough to require the capital punishment, don't commit it? Get a clue?

 

[Valery]

Holy books are not evidence. This is not a preaching forum. Do you have any evidence of your claims?

Please follow the discussion or read back, instead of me having to explain to you what has been said previously. That way your anti-religious preaching is easier to address.

 

[tosca1]

In the relatively short time that I have been here, I have noticed that the great majority of the atheists don't spend much time at all bashing religion. Yes, they (we) will sometimes make pointed remarks regarding the existence of god, per se, but mostly overlook participating in discussions in which religion is the primary topic.
Religionists, on the other hand, get almost hateful in the manner in which they go after one another as regards particular religions, particular beliefs, and Bible interpretation. Which religion is true? What particular beliefs make one a Christian? How is this passage or that passage on the Bible correctly interpreted? All that the atheists do is sit back and shake their head that there could be so many differences among those who all label themselves as "Christian".


So Protestants don't think that Catholics represent true Christianity and vice-verse, and lots of Protestant sects have big differences in many areas from other Protestant Sects, and there is the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, and Shiites and Sunni Moslems who hate one another to the point of waging war and killing one another, and Orthodox and Hasidic and "regular" Jews, plus all those other various religions like Hindu and Baha'i and Eastern Religions such as Tao, etc. I swear, it's enough to make your head spin. Or at least to wonder why God can't somehow allow people to come together of fighting over him with both words and sometimes fists and armament.

Just remember, this is a forum. This is how it is - what more when you are in a section titled Beliefs and Skepticism.


Atheists have really toned down now compared to several years ago.
The new atheists were the ones that were really militant and nasty - I'd like to assume that was during the height of Dawkins' popularity.
But since Dawkins' had lost his shine, with his credibility greatly damaged by his book, The God Delusion, the tables are suddenly turned.

From being militant and aggressively mockers of religion and religious people, the new atheists had found themselves ill-equipped when it comes to reason - like Dawkins, they're exposed by their own words - and thus, they can't really do any religion-bashing anymore......
........unless of course, they use Trump! :lol:


As for religious people debating one another - well, this is the acceptable place for it!

We're talking about differences - lol, why would there be different denominations and different religions if not for differences? :mrgreen:
Differences make for an interesting discussion, don't you think so?

I don't think anyone here would be as argumentative out there on the streets, or with anyone face-to-face in public, unless they've organized a formal debate. I surely don't argue out there with anyone professing their beliefs.



Arguments are the staple of a forum. Or, a debate. I don't know why that would be so surprising to anyone. :shrug:

 

[RAMOSS]

But the good deeds of those who don't believe, weigh nothing on the day of judgment.

And how do you know that?

 

[Valery]

We live in a civil society with laws, and those laws say that homosexuality is legal under the Constitution. That is all that the gays really need to know.
And, BTW, they can also adopt children.

Allah's law is supreme to yours. Yours, btw, changes all the time. Homosexuality stopped being counted as a mental illness in America in 1987.

Before that, something happened that is truly interesting:

"In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members attending its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder. 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it."
When Homosexuality Stopped Being a Mental Disorder | Psychology Today

You see, some would have you think that people simply realised one day that homosexuality is "normal" and acceptable, but no... It was voted on and almost half of them voted no. (or yes to keeping the diagnosis)

There are people with these unnatural desires who do not live the lifestyle. I.e. they know what is right and what is wrong, they believe in their creator and His laws and suppress their wrong desires. Having homosexual desires might be or might not be a choice, but acting on them is a choice.

 

[RAMOSS]

"Abu Bakr Al-Hisni may Allaah have mercy upon him wrote:

"There is no doubt that the punishment in the Hereafter shall be enduring given the permanency of its cause; that is harboring the intention to hold on to disbelief. There is no doubt that had the disbelievers lived forever, they would have held on to disbelief. Similarly, the believer deserves to abide in Paradise eternally for the same reason; this is what is meant by the hadeeth that reads, 'The intention of the believer is better than his action.'""
Eternal punishment for the disbelievers is part of the wisdom of Allaah - Islamweb - Fatwas

So, you are saying 'This random person claims to speak for god, because he read something in a book someplace. ' That sounds like a way that people are trying to control other people, and has nothing to do with God what so ever.

 

[bongsaway]

I liked your final paragraph. If I wasn't born into Roman Catholicism, and used my intellect purely, I doubt I'd ever become a member of organized religion - due to the things you brought-up in that paragraph.

Actually. I might take that back. There's a pretty cool religion called 'B'hai'. They basically believe all the paternals of the major religions - Jesus, Abraham, Muhammad, etc. - are all prophets of the same deity. We just are humanly incapable of understanding & perceiving that deity. It's basically an 'umbrella' religion that attempts to encompass all other religions, and as such one can keep their other formal religion and still become a B'hai. As such, they're very diverse here in the States, and very open minded & tolerant of other faiths. It's more of a 'brotherhood of man', which I find appealing.

What I don't understand is why people feel a need to have a god? I have never seen a god, I don't know anyone who has seen a god. I know of plenty of people who claim they talk with a god and a god talks with them but have never actually seen or heard from a god. I think god is man's inability to deal in a given emotional situation. Like mortars raining down on your head and you're in a hole in the ground. Oh god.

Otherwise I find it difficult even being raised as a catholic that some guy sitting in a dark booth has the power to forgive my sins. I just don't buy that stuff. God is taught to the very vast majority of people and we then twist and bend god to fit our desires and still call ourselves christians.

 

[watsup]

Just remember, this is a forum. This is how it is - what more when you are in a section titled Beliefs and Skepticism.


Atheists have really toned down now compared to several years ago.
The new atheists were the ones that were really militant and nasty - I'd like to assume that was during the height of Dawkins' popularity.
But since Dawkins' had lost his shine, with his credibility greatly damaged by his book, The God Delusion, the tables are suddenly turned.

From being militant and aggressively mockers of religion and religious people, the new atheists had found themselves ill-equipped when it comes to reason - like Dawkins, they're exposed by their own words - and thus, they can't really do any religion-bashing anymore......
........unless of course, they use Trump! :lol:


As for religious people debating one another - well, this is the acceptable place for it!

We're talking about differences - lol, why would there be different denominations and different religions if not for differences? :mrgreen:
Differences make for an interesting discussion, don't you think so?

I don't think anyone here would be as argumentative out there on the streets, or with anyone face-to-face in public, unless they've organized a formal debate. I surely don't argue out there with anyone professing their beliefs.



Arguments are the staple of a forum. Or, a debate. I don't know why that would be so surprising to anyone. :shrug:

Fabulism.

 

[zyzygy]

Please follow the discussion or read back, instead of me having to explain to you what has been said previously. That way your anti-religious preaching is easier to address.

You have not presented any evidence.

 

[zyzygy]

Allah's law is supreme to yours. Yours, btw, changes all the time. Homosexuality stopped being counted as a mental illness in America in 1987.

Before that, something happened that is truly interesting:

"In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members attending its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder. 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it."
When Homosexuality Stopped Being a Mental Disorder | Psychology Today

You see, some would have you think that people simply realised one day that homosexuality is "normal" and acceptable, but no... It was voted on and almost half of them voted no. (or yes to keeping the diagnosis)

There are people with these unnatural desires who do not live the lifestyle. I.e. they know what is right and what is wrong, they believe in their creator and His laws and suppress their wrong desires. Having homosexual desires might be or might not be a choice, but acting on them is a choice.

You are entitled to your beliefs.

 

[stevecanuck]

But the good deeds of those who don't believe, weigh nothing on the day of judgment.

Correct. An therein lies the absurdity, the effrontery to basic decency, the gross stupidity of religious doctrine.

 

[Chomsky]

What I don't understand is why people feel a need to have a god? I have never seen a god, I don't know anyone who has seen a god. I know of plenty of people who claim they talk with a god and a god talks with them but have never actually seen or heard from a god. I think god is man's inability to deal in a given emotional situation. Like mortars raining down on your head and you're in a hole in the ground. Oh god.

Otherwise I find it difficult even being raised as a catholic that some guy sitting in a dark booth has the power to forgive my sins. I just don't buy that stuff. God is taught to the very vast majority of people and we then twist and bend god to fit our desires and still call ourselves christians.

Fair enough, I very much respect that. As to why some want to believe in a supreme being? I think for some life may become too dystopian, if all we have to look forward to is rushing to our graves! :2razz:

 

[Rumpelstil]

The good thing is, despite the corruption they too reject homosexual behaviour.

You call that "a good thing?"

Your religious fanatism seems to know no end.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Day of judgement blah blah blah. No such thing.
And besides that, if there truly is a "just" God, then those who do good deeds will indeed be rewarded on "judgement day", no matter what the dogma of religion says.

I hear you mate,

In my world, only the bad people get judged. Makes you wonder why she is concerned about that in the first place. Surely not something I need to worry about. Best guess is; She's probably done something bad and is looking for an easy way out.

Joey

 

[Dragonfly]

Allah's law is supreme to yours. Yours, btw, changes all the time. Homosexuality stopped being counted as a mental illness in America in 1987.

Before that, something happened that is truly interesting:

"In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members attending its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder. 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it."
When Homosexuality Stopped Being a Mental Disorder | Psychology Today

You see, some would have you think that people simply realised one day that homosexuality is "normal" and acceptable, but no... It was voted on and almost half of them voted no. (or yes to keeping the diagnosis)

There are people with these unnatural desires who do not live the lifestyle. I.e. they know what is right and what is wrong, they believe in their creator and His laws and suppress their wrong desires. Having homosexual desires might be or might not be a choice, but acting on them is a choice.

You're quoting something from 1973????

:roll:


This is why organized, religious dogma is more dangerous than harmful. It's 100% blind.

It's none of your damn business what other people do. (assuming they are consenting adults blah blah blah)