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Bashing Religion

watsup

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In the relatively short time that I have been here, I have noticed that the great majority of the atheists don't spend much time at all bashing religion. Yes, they (we) will sometimes make pointed remarks regarding the existence of god, per se, but mostly overlook participating in discussions in which religion is the primary topic.
Religionists, on the other hand, get almost hateful in the manner in which they go after one another as regards particular religions, particular beliefs, and Bible interpretation. Which religion is true? What particular beliefs make one a Christian? How is this passage or that passage on the Bible correctly interpreted? All that the atheists do is sit back and shake their head that there could be so many differences among those who all label themselves as "Christian".

As for religion in general, I have no big problem with it. If it provides a moral basis for people who participate, so much the better. If it provides charity to fellow humans, good for them. Who knows, I might even be willing to participate in a religion if it didn't have "God" as its center and I didn't have to get up on Sunday morning to go to church. Like Buddhism, for example. But there are not many Buddhists where I live, so just living an ethical life based on Humanist principles is good enough at the present time.

Now if religion is used as an instrument of hate, then it should indeed be condemned. I'm talking about the manner in which Islam is practiced in the Middle East at this point, but it could apply to any act of violence committed against another human being based on religion.

So Protestants don't think that Catholics represent true Christianity and vice-verse, and lots of Protestant sects have big differences in many areas from other Protestant Sects, and there is the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, and Shiites and Sunni Moslems who hate one another to the point of waging war and killing one another, and Orthodox and Hasidic and "regular" Jews, plus all those other various religions like Hindu and Baha'i and Eastern Religions such as Tao, etc. I swear, it's enough to make your head spin. Or at least to wonder why God can't somehow allow people to come together of fighting over him with both words and sometimes fists and armament.
 

Chomsky

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In the relatively short time that I have been here, I have noticed that the great majority of the atheists don't spend much time at all bashing religion. Yes, they (we) will sometimes make pointed remarks regarding the existence of god, per se, but mostly overlook participating in discussions in which religion is the primary topic.
Religionists, on the other hand, get almost hateful in the manner in which they go after one another as regards particular religions, particular beliefs, and Bible interpretation. Which religion is true? What particular beliefs make one a Christian? How is this passage or that passage on the Bible correctly interpreted? All that the atheists do is sit back and shake their head that there could be so many differences among those who all label themselves as "Christian".

As for religion in general, I have no big problem with it. If it provides a moral basis for people who participate, so much the better. If it provides charity to fellow humans, good for them. Who knows, I might even be willing to participate in a religion if it didn't have "God" as its center and I didn't have to get up on Sunday morning to go to church. Like Buddhism, for example. But there are not many Buddhists where I live, so just living an ethical life based on Humanist principles is good enough at the present time.

Now if religion is used as an instrument of hate, then it should indeed be condemned. I'm talking about the manner in which Islam is practiced in the Middle East at this point, but it could apply to any act of violence committed against another human being based on religion.

So Protestants don't think that Catholics represent true Christianity and vice-verse, and lots of Protestant sects have big differences in many areas from other Protestant Sects, and there is the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, and Shiites and Sunni Moslems who hate one another to the point of waging war and killing one another, and Orthodox and Hasidic and "regular" Jews, plus all those other various religions like Hindu and Baha'i and Eastern Religions such as Tao, etc. I swear, it's enough to make your head spin. Or at least to wonder why God can't somehow allow people to come together of fighting over him with both words and sometimes fists and armament.
I liked your final paragraph. If I wasn't born into Roman Catholicism, and used my intellect purely, I doubt I'd ever become a member of organized religion - due to the things you brought-up in that paragraph.

Actually. I might take that back. There's a pretty cool religion called 'B'hai'. They basically believe all the paternals of the major religions - Jesus, Abraham, Muhammad, etc. - are all prophets of the same deity. We just are humanly incapable of understanding & perceiving that deity. It's basically an 'umbrella' religion that attempts to encompass all other religions, and as such one can keep their other formal religion and still become a B'hai. As such, they're very diverse here in the States, and very open minded & tolerant of other faiths. It's more of a 'brotherhood of man', which I find appealing.
 

Elora

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In the relatively short time that I have been here, I have noticed that the great majority of the atheists don't spend much time at all bashing religion. Yes, they (we) will sometimes make pointed remarks regarding the existence of god, per se, but mostly overlook participating in discussions in which religion is the primary topic.
Religionists, on the other hand, get almost hateful in the manner in which they go after one another as regards particular religions, particular beliefs, and Bible interpretation. Which religion is true? What particular beliefs make one a Christian? How is this passage or that passage on the Bible correctly interpreted? All that the atheists do is sit back and shake their head that there could be so many differences among those who all label themselves as "Christian".

As for religion in general, I have no big problem with it. If it provides a moral basis for people who participate, so much the better. If it provides charity to fellow humans, good for them. Who knows, I might even be willing to participate in a religion if it didn't have "God" as its center and I didn't have to get up on Sunday morning to go to church. Like Buddhism, for example. But there are not many Buddhists where I live, so just living an ethical life based on Humanist principles is good enough at the present time.

Now if religion is used as an instrument of hate, then it should indeed be condemned. I'm talking about the manner in which Islam is practiced in the Middle East at this point, but it could apply to any act of violence committed against another human being based on religion.

So Protestants don't think that Catholics represent true Christianity and vice-verse, and lots of Protestant sects have big differences in many areas from other Protestant Sects, and there is the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, and Shiites and Sunni Moslems who hate one another to the point of waging war and killing one another, and Orthodox and Hasidic and "regular" Jews, plus all those other various religions like Hindu and Baha'i and Eastern Religions such as Tao, etc. I swear, it's enough to make your head spin. Or at least to wonder why God can't somehow allow people to come together of fighting over him with both words and sometimes fists and armament.

Jehovah God would like nothing better...when it comes to the confusion/discourse/deception, put the blame on the one causing such...

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:13,14
 

watsup

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I also might add that it is the religionists who are very big into ad hom, both against one another and against atheists. In fact, as far as I can tell in a informal survey, they almost can't even post without adding some sort of ad hom or other. I'm not sure why that is. Some would say that people add ad hom because they are uncertain of their own argumentation and therefore feel the need to tear down their opponent on a personal rather than a topic basis, so I'll just leave it at that.
 

Sherlock Holmes

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I also might add that it is the religionists who are very big into ad hom, both against one another and against atheists. In fact, as far as I can tell in a informal survey, they almost can't even post without adding some sort of ad hom or other. I'm not sure why that is. Some would say that people add ad hom because they are uncertain of their own argumentation and therefore feel the need to tear down their opponent on a personal rather than a topic basis, so I'll just leave it at that.

Looks like this thread has already bitten the dust.
 

NWO_Spook

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I also might add that it is the religionists who are very big into ad hom, both against one another and against atheists. In fact, as far as I can tell in a informal survey, they almost can't even post without adding some sort of ad hom or other. I'm not sure why that is. Some would say that people add ad hom because they are uncertain of their own argumentation and therefore feel the need to tear down their opponent on a personal rather than a topic basis, so I'll just leave it at that.

Or some people lack integrity, and whether they are religious or not is immaterial.
 

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A "True Christian" thread on steroids :roll:
 

watsup

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Looks like this thread has already bitten the dust.

I can certainly understand why the religionists would not want to join in since it points out their bashing of one another and their addiction to ad hom.
 

Sherlock Holmes

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I can certainly understand why the religionists would not want to join in since it points out their bashing of one another and their addiction to ad hom.

Typical unreligionist.
 

Rumpel

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So Protestants don't think that Catholics represent true Christianity and vice-verse, and lots of Protestant sects have big differences in many areas from other Protestant Sects, and there is the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church, and Shiites and Sunni Moslems who hate one another to the point of waging war and killing one another, and Orthodox and Hasidic and "regular" Jews, plus all those other various religions like Hindu and Baha'i and Eastern Religions such as Tao, etc. I swear, it's enough to make your head spin. Or at least to wonder why God can't somehow allow people to come together of fighting over him with both words and sometimes fists and armament.

A very good question!

And what is the answer?
 

Rumpel

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Looks like this thread has already bitten the dust.


Why?

I do not see it that way.

It has just started.

And I find it always a hateful and spiteful thing to attack a thread in that way

If people are to stupid to find aguments, they attack the thread as such.
 

Rumpel

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I also might add that it is the religionists who are very big into ad hom, both against one another and against atheists. In fact, as far as I can tell in a informal survey, they almost can't even post without adding some sort of ad hom or other. I'm not sure why that is. Some would say that people add ad hom because they are uncertain of their own argumentation and therefore feel the need to tear down their opponent on a personal rather than a topic basis, so I'll just leave it at that.

You are so right!

It has happened to me in other fields.

I post a problem that is over the narrow horizon of some.

And then I get attacked personally.
 

Rumpel

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Actually. I might take that back. There's a pretty cool religion called 'B'hai'. They basically believe all the paternals of the major religions - Jesus, Abraham, Muhammad, etc. - are all prophets of the same deity. We just are humanly incapable of understanding & perceiving that deity. It's basically an 'umbrella' religion that attempts to encompass all other religions, and as such one can keep their other formal religion and still become a B'hai. As such, they're very diverse here in the States, and very open minded & tolerant of other faiths. It's more of a 'brotherhood of man', which I find appealing.


The Bahai would be fine, if it was not for one thing: They do not allow wine.
One big drawback!
 

JoeyJoystick

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Now if religion is used as an instrument of hate, then it should indeed be condemned. I'm talking about the manner in which Islam is practiced in the Middle East at this point, but it could apply to any act of violence committed against another human being based on religion.

A agree with most of what you say. I am an atheist myself. I have no problem with people being religious. I do have a problem with anyone spreading hate though. But for me it goes a little further than that. What upsets me is when people try to tell me how to live my life.

You will see often in threads about Abortion or Euthanasia (to give a few examples) that religion plays an important role in their arguments. But while arguing is ok, it is plain wrong when you try to force your own believes onto someone else when it comes to topics like this.

What I do not get is this. If you do not like abortion; Don't do it. But who do you think you are to tell me that I shouldn't do it? Ok, I am a woman, so I am a little limited in this field. But than we go to Euthanasia and it is more or less the same thing. My father had made it abundantly clear that he would not want to live any further if there was little quality of life left for him. Imagine he had not lived in the Netherlands but in a country where this is illegal. I am happy that I could help fulfill my fathers whishes. Happy is an awkward word in this context, I am just trusting you get my drift here. And also my mother told the doctors to stop treating her. She actually told them to keep her alive until I was back in the country so we could say goodbye one more time. And after that the doctor started to give her Morphine and this quickly ended her suffering.

I am sure that people will attack me on an anonymous media such as this forum, but nobody has ever even attempted to say that in my face. Nor should they.

My parents were Catholic. They have taught me morals, manners and values. Yes I am an Atheist, but I am happy that they taught me these morals, manners and values. And this implies that you do not force your own beliefs onto someone else. Live and let live. With respect.

And in addition to this, we should try harder to keep religion out of politics.

Joey
 

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In the relatively short time that I have been here, I have noticed that the great majority of the atheists don't spend much time at all bashing religion.
You think they deserve a gold star? How many religious people spend time "bashing" atheism? Since religious people are less likely to be here debating over relating topics, how can you even pretend you have actual statistics that would make your argument anything more than, "I find those more bothersome than us." it's usually that way. I find you more bothersome than a religious person. I also see there are very few religious people here. I have counted 4. Really this amount of atheists on this forum can't handle the 4 religious people having their discussions? Does it make you feel like a third wheel? If you ever actually researched the topics, you could take part in the discussion instead of shaking your head over how complicated everything seems. If you can't handle the discussions about religion that don't "bash" religion — go to some other sub.
Yes, they (we) will sometimes make pointed remarks regarding the existence of god, per se, but mostly overlook participating in discussions in which religion is the primary topic.
I thought I noticed irreligious and anti-religious people just rushing to any religious topic to make sure they get to be the first one to make the but-there-is-no-god-religion-is-stupid comment.
Religionists, on the other hand, get almost hateful in the manner in which they go after one another as regards particular religions, particular beliefs, and Bible interpretation.
can you give an example of 'hateful'?
I might even be willing to participate in a religion if it didn't have "God" as its center and I didn't have to get up on Sunday morning to go to church.
You know most Christians don't go to church, right?
Now if religion is used as an instrument of hate, then it should indeed be condemned. I'm talking about the manner in which Islam is practiced in the Middle East at this point, but it could apply to any act of violence committed against another human being based on religion.
and how do you think religion is practiced in the Middle East? Is the problem for you all religions there or just islam?
 

grip

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Strict adherence to religion is for the intellectually lazy, especially as the sole source of understanding creation, history, and right and wrong. The bible and other holy texts were written by superstitious people from the distant past and in their entirety are conflicting and make little sense.

Though there is much wisdom and knowledge to be gleaned from scriptures, a lot of it can't be taken literally as it's either symbolic or in parables.
 

it's just me

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Typical unreligionist.

The OP begins by telling us about how little time atheists spend bashing religion, then launches into his religion bashing. He goes on to demonstrate how little he knows about the issues and presumes to give us the answer to the question that nobody asked him for. Just one more atheist talking about how all Protestants are different but doesn't tell us what's different about them.

I'm surprised he didn't bring up Trump.
 

calamity

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The OP begins by telling us about how little time atheists spend bashing religion, then launches into his religion bashing. He goes on to demonstrate how little he knows about the issues and presumes to give us the answer to the question that nobody asked him for. Just one more atheist talking about how all Protestants are different but doesn't tell us what's different about them.

I'm surprised he didn't bring up Trump.

You called?

It is pretty obvious that Trump and Falwell Jr have destroyed any credibility that Far Right US Christianity might have had. Gotta love them for that, at least.
 

it's just me

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You called?

It is pretty obvious that Trump and Falwell Jr have destroyed any credibility that Far Right US Christianity might have had. Gotta love them for that, at least.

It was only a matter of time. I wish these leftists would keep church and state separate.
 

JoeyJoystick

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Strict adherence to religion is for the intellectually lazy, especially as the sole source of understanding creation, history, and right and wrong. The bible and other holy texts were written by superstitious people from the distant past and in their entirety are conflicting and make little sense.

Though there is much wisdom and knowledge to be gleaned from scriptures, a lot of it can't be taken literally as it's either symbolic or in parables.

I have said it before. I am an atheist. That does not mean I do not believe in history though.

Sure Jesus existed. And I am also sure that Mohammed existed. And I do agree that they were superstitious back in those days. Ok, we still are but to a lot lesser degree. But the only reason why people were superstitious is because back in those days (2,000 Years AGO!) people did simply not know as much as we do today. Yet the very nature of our species is curiosity. So we try hard to explain everything. And in order to do that 2,000 years ago they surely came up with some ridiculous ideas. Though many of them, when you try to put yourself in their shoes, are not that stupid at second thought. Both Mohammed and Jesus realized that we are the biggest threat to ourselves.

They tried to unite people. They tried to explain to people that some things are wrong and other things are right. They understood that panic was dangerous. And they understood that in order to avoid panic and chaos people needed explanations. That is what they tried to do. Hence the 10 commandments.

I agree much doesn't appear to make a lot of sense today though. And all religions have a very hard time to adapt to modern times.

Of course the Muslims said it was bad to eat pork. They didn't have fridges back in those days. Of course you eat with your right hand and clean your behind with the other hand. Sanitary provisions were lacking. And of course they thought the earth was flat, because that is all they could see. (Ironically, the Greeks calculated the circumference of earth 240 years before Jesus came in the picture, but they already new this in 500BC)

And it was things like this that made religion very important for any society and allowed, or at least helped, for a society to function normally.

And back to the superstitious part. People do that still today. Also back home. Interestingly though, when you travel to less developed countries (and in this context I also mean that the people are less educated) you quickly realize that the people are much more superstitious. I am from The Netherlands, but I live in Thailand.

And I will take that one step further. You see the same thing here on DP. It is in general the more educated people who discuss, argue, interpret and share knowledge and provide arguments for their positions. At the same time you see that the less educated often come with one-liners claiming how wrong and stupid you are without even the slightest shred of evidence for their claim nor investigating anything before they even start writing.

Joey
 

grip

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I have said it before. I am an atheist. That does not mean I do not believe in history though.

Sure Jesus existed. And I am also sure that Mohammed existed. And I do agree that they were superstitious back in those days. Ok, we still are but to a lot lesser degree. But the only reason why people were superstitious is because back in those days (2,000 Years AGO!) people did simply not know as much as we do today. Yet the very nature of our species is curiosity. So we try hard to explain everything. And in order to do that 2,000 years ago they surely came up with some ridiculous ideas. Though many of them, when you try to put yourself in their shoes, are not that stupid at second thought. Both Mohammed and Jesus realized that we are the biggest threat to ourselves.

They tried to unite people. They tried to explain to people that some things are wrong and other things are right. They understood that panic was dangerous. And they understood that in order to avoid panic and chaos people needed explanations. That is what they tried to do. Hence the 10 commandments.

I agree much doesn't appear to make a lot of sense today though. And all religions have a very hard time to adapt to modern times.

Of course the Muslims said it was bad to eat pork. They didn't have fridges back in those days. Of course you eat with your right hand and clean your behind with the other hand. Sanitary provisions were lacking. And of course they thought the earth was flat, because that is all they could see. (Ironically, the Greeks calculated the circumference of earth 240 years before Jesus came in the picture, but they already new this in 500BC)

And it was things like this that made religion very important for any society and allowed, or at least helped, for a society to function normally.

And back to the superstitious part. People do that still today. Also back home. Interestingly though, when you travel to less developed countries (and in this context I also mean that the people are less educated) you quickly realize that the people are much more superstitious. I am from The Netherlands, but I live in Thailand.

And I will take that one step further. You see the same thing here on DP. It is in general the more educated people who discuss, argue, interpret and share knowledge and provide arguments for their positions. At the same time you see that the less educated often come with one-liners claiming how wrong and stupid you are without even the slightest shred of evidence for their claim nor investigating anything before they even start writing.

Joey

Very well written and said. I completely agree, except even though I criticized religious dogma, I believe Jesus was divine and came to give hope in the resurrection, besides teaching and performing miracles.
 

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Why?

I do not see it that way.

It has just started.

And I find it always a hateful and spiteful thing to attack a thread in that way

If people are to stupid to find aguments, they attack the thread as such.


Sherlock thinks of himself as an informal moderator who should get to tell people what they should and should not post in threads.
 

watsup

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A agree with most of what you say. I am an atheist myself. I have no problem with people being religious. I do have a problem with anyone spreading hate though. But for me it goes a little further than that. What upsets me is when people try to tell me how to live my life.

You will see often in threads about Abortion or Euthanasia (to give a few examples) that religion plays an important role in their arguments. But while arguing is ok, it is plain wrong when you try to force your own believes onto someone else when it comes to topics like this.

What I do not get is this. If you do not like abortion; Don't do it. But who do you think you are to tell me that I shouldn't do it? Ok, I am a woman, so I am a little limited in this field. But than we go to Euthanasia and it is more or less the same thing. My father had made it abundantly clear that he would not want to live any further if there was little quality of life left for him. Imagine he had not lived in the Netherlands but in a country where this is illegal. I am happy that I could help fulfill my fathers whishes. Happy is an awkward word in this context, I am just trusting you get my drift here. And also my mother told the doctors to stop treating her. She actually told them to keep her alive until I was back in the country so we could say goodbye one more time. And after that the doctor started to give her Morphine and this quickly ended her suffering.

I am sure that people will attack me on an anonymous media such as this forum, but nobody has ever even attempted to say that in my face. Nor should they.

My parents were Catholic. They have taught me morals, manners and values. Yes I am an Atheist, but I am happy that they taught me these morals, manners and values. And this implies that you do not force your own beliefs onto someone else. Live and let live. With respect.

And in addition to this, we should try harder to keep religion out of politics.

Joey

How do you like living in Thailand? I was stationed at Nakhon Phanom during the Vietnam War and I really like the pleasant attitude and openness of so many of the Thai people. Perhaps it has to do with the Buddhism that many of them practice.
 

watsup

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It was only a matter of time. I wish these leftists would keep church and state separate.

You are hilarious! Somehow it’s the fault of the “leftists” that Falwell and the other fundies see the serial adulterer liar scumbag Trump as their great hero and a number of them even came to the WH to “lay hands” and “bless” him, after which he called them fools. Which they are, of course, for supporting a charlatan who uses religion as nothing more than a political prop.
Given your original statement,you clearly have no credibility.
 
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