Ban on ‘Excessive’ Gas Prices Heading for House Vote

[ttwtt78640]

What makes the price a "gouge"?

Politics. Public college tuition prices have risen far more than motor fuel prices. Do we hear calls to ban price gouging by “Big Education”?

 

[highroller]

The government talk about eliminating student debt, which I doubt they have the legal authority to do. I think that's why they haven't done it yet.

Any lender has the authority to cancel their own debt.

 

[highroller]

Agreed, but I have an old (2002) truck. BTW, how many EV trucks (capable of towing 7000# GRVW trailers) are available?

How many people use their truck to its full capacity? Most people I know with a truck are just wasting gas.

 

[highroller]

Politics. Public college tuition prices have risen far more than motor fuel prices. Do we hear calls to ban price gouging by “Big Education”?

We hear calls for better funding for public college. The reason it’s risen so fast is cutting public education and increasing the reliance of funding on student loans.

 

[ttwtt78640]

How many people use their truck to its full capacity? Most people I know with a truck are just wasting gas.

I do, but would like to downsize to a used (2017 or later) Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon (2WD crew cab with a V6). After the brake and transmission upgrades, those models of ‘mid-size‘ trucks have ample towing, cargo and passenger capacity for my needs.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

You ever live in South Carolina? Yes I was paying under a $1 buck a gallon after Obamas nuke deal

I will be sending you the bill for repairing my skepticism meter shortly.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Why are you quoting me with a silly rant not related to my reply?

I guess that you didn't actually notice the source of the evidence that you produced to back up your position.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

There's also the trade policy aspect to this. Existing regulations prevent us from importing baby formula made in Europe with a few exceptions because the products meet FDA standards. That's not to say European formula is substandard, but there are differences in terms of labeling from what I remember reading. On the trade front, the USMCA placed restrictions on imports from Canada.

On "baby formula"? You have to be kidding.

Besides, whey would the US government care about that fraction of the 2% of the "baby formula" that is consumed in the US, BUT which is not manufactured in the US, comes from one particular country?

 

[KevinKohler]

Which means the free market created the problem.

Actually, no.

See, the recall, which has exacerbated the shortage,, is the result of regulation.

 

[ElChupacabra]

On "baby formula"? You have to be kidding.

Are you referring to regulations or trade restrictions?

Besides, whey would the US government care about that fraction of the 2% of the "baby formula" that is consumed in the US, BUT which is not manufactured in the US, comes from one particular country?

As I mentioned, one is based on existing FDA regulations and the other on trade restrictions enacted as part of the USMCA.

 

[mrjurrs]

Him (I think) like me lived through the 1970s.

BTW how about just drill more, be pro pipeline and stop the lefts 40 year war on coal?

Since you lived through the 70's it's obvious why you don't give a crap about the 2030's.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

1. That is irrelevant to the question of price.

2. you are incorrect, as demonstrated above.

Obviously you are not actually reading for comprehension.

The GLOBAL shortage does not mean that countries which have a DOMESTIC surplus and which are NOT suffering from increased DOMESTIC costs MUST raise their DOMESTIC prices because of the GLOBAL shortage.

The reason why the DOMESTIC prices are going up is that the DOMESTIC producers have two options

[1] sell their product into the GLOBAL market at an increased price due to the GLOBAL shortfall (and create a DOMESTIC shortfall);​

​

[2] keep prices steady;​

​

or​

​

[3] sell their product DOMESTICALLY for an increased price.​

The DOMESTIC cost of production hasn't changed, nor has the DOMESTIC source of supply (well, except to improve, that is).

While I certainly have no problem believing that domestic refining capacity is unequal to what full-bore American production would be

1. You have yet to demonstrate that this is so beyond your mere assertion. Initial searching seems to indicate that our refining capacity, in fact, well outstrips our crude production

If your two charts were measuring the same thing, then you might have a point. They aren't.

2. It would still be irrelevant, since what drives price will be global supply.

Indeed. The oil companies can raise their DOMESTIC prices because, if the DOMESTIC consumers do not pay the increased prices, the oil companies can sell their product OUTSIDE of the US.

The oil companies do have the option of leaving their DOMESTIC prices to be driven solely by DOMESTIC factors - but that would reduce their profits (from what they could have been [please do not make the mistake of thinking that "a smaller increase" and "a loss" mean the same thing) and the management of the oil companies is under a legal duty to maximize profits.

......I don't know if you noticed, but, it is early 2022 - in fact, we are getting past "early", and are now into "mid" 2022, and early 2022 did not turn out the way that author anticipated. There was the small matter of a war in Eastern Europe that occurred between the writing of that article in December of last year and now, for example.

And how much Ukrainian oil does the US consume?

 

[CaughtInThe]

Actually, no.

See, the recall, which has exacerbated the shortage,, is the result of regulation.

Part of the free market is sometimes killing people which then causes recalls.

Are you in favor of just continuing to sell products that kill babies?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Define “well above”.



Why use Q1 of 2020 (during pandemic) as the baseline?



Political spin with no specific examples of profit margin changes.





Hmm… how does Biden expect gas stations to sell “unfinished gasoline”?

Here is the “answer”:

The US average gross profit percentage for manufacturing is between 25 and 35% and the NET profit margin is around 5 to 6 percent(but in some areas it is lower).

So, without any actual justification, I'd say that any price which results in a NET profit margin of 12+% is one that no one would NOT call gouging.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The US average gross profit percentage for manufacturing is between 25 and 35% and the NET profit margin is around 5 to 6 percent(but in some areas it is lower).

So, without any actual justification, I'd say that any price which results in a NET profit margin of 12+% is one that no one would NOT call gouging.

OK, but if that is allowed to vary by “industry” then who should have the power to control it and how?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Actually, no.

See, the recall, which has exacerbated the shortage,, is the result of regulation.

Indeed, that regulation says (paraphrasing) "Thou shalt not sell baby formula which will kill children.".

<SARC>It's about time that we got rid of all such stupid and communist regulations and let businesses sell whatever they can sell for whatever price they want to charge.

Not only that, but there are those "elitist" regulations on who can engage in which occupations! Those have to go as well. I mean, just because "Bubba" never went past Grade Six why CAN'T he be a brain surgeon if he wants to be and why CAN'T anyone who wants to hire him as a brain surgeon do so?</SARC>

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

OK, but if that is allowed to vary by “industry” then who should have the power to control it and how?

Why the consumer, naturally.

That's the way that unrestrained, free market, capitalism works.

If "Company A" is charging extortionate prices, don't deal with them - deal with "Company B" (which is charging the same price for the same goods manufactured by the same process and using the same raw materials).

 

[ttwtt78640]

Why the consumer, naturally.

That's the way that unrestrained, free market, capitalism works.

If "Company A" is charging extortionate prices, don't deal with them - deal with "Company B" (which is charging the same price for the same goods manufactured by the same process and using the same raw materials).

Yep, that’s what keeps the cost of public college tuition from rising so fast.

 

[Surrealistik]

OK, but as the BI link noted, over half of small businesses are (allegedly) doing this. The big picture, according to the linked BI article’s graph, is that (average?) profit margins are up from about 13% in 2010 to about 15% now (after the recent dip to about 8% in between).

The average of the past 70 years seems to hover around 8-9%. Moreover, larger firms were even more likely to gouge than smaller ones per the article.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The average of the past 70 years seems to hover around 8-9%. Moreover, larger firms were even more likely to gouge than smaller ones per the article.

Exactly, and it has varied more in the past than it has recently. Since it is now bad news for the political party in power, they (suddenly?) want to “do something”.

 

[Surrealistik]

Exactly, and it has varied more in the past than it has recently. Since it is now bad news for the political party in power, they (suddenly?) want to “do something”.

The problem is recently we're looking at historic highs not seen since the 50s, not just variance; that is why they want to do something. Honestly, both parties are so captured by corporate money that if they could ignore this gouging they would.

Hell, Dems aren't even really taking (or trying to take) concrete action despite the evidence of generalized gouging being overwhelming, and only a minority of people in the party have actively been decrying it.

 

[KevinKohler]

Part of the free market is sometimes killing people which then causes recalls.

Are you in favor of just continuing to sell products that kill babies?

Nope.

But I just wanted to point out, a free market doesn't have an FDA, ergo, no food born illness recalls.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nope.

But I just wanted to point out, a free market doesn't have an FDA, ergo, no food born illness recalls.

Many product safety recalls are voluntary since insurance companies and lawyers are part of the free market too.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

So, let me see if I got this right?
You think companies charging massively excessive rates for electric and gas is fine and think trying to stop it from happening is wrong?

Well, that's certainly an opinion.

I think the idea is that it's not clear how to determine what is "excessive."

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Every stupid right winger always makes the same moronic comment "How much is too much" All it shows is you have absolutely no argument and you are trying to deflect. ANd guess what? It's not original, its just he same programmed right wing bullshit shit out of the mouths of every dime a dozen right winger who can only troll with the same moronic garbage