Atheist Self Identification

[Frank Apisa]

I am not the one making an assertion here, you claim that there is a God,

I do???????

Never in any post here or anywhere else have I ever done that.

So you really have to start somewhere else.

I have no idea if "the universe" was created or not.

Neither do you.

I do not believe that.

Fine.

Therefore it is up to YOU to provide the evidence for God's existence. You are making the positive claim that a God exists, so therefore the burden of proof is on you.

Wake up.

And I am not 'blindly' guessing that the Universe was created without the need of a God. Science has already provided a model for the creation of the universe, with credible evidence to back it up. Ever heard of a self-replicating universe before?

If you are guessing there are no gods...or that it is more likely there are no gods than that there are...

...you ARE blindly guessing.

And if the Universe needs God to be created, then who created God?

Beats me. There are lots of things I do not know. I have the guts to acknowledge I do not know them. Like...when I acknowledge I do not know if there are gods or not.

 

[HonestJoe]

This thread is really only aimed at people that self identify as 'atheist'.

I recognise that I am atheist in that I don’t believe in the existence of any gods but I wouldn’t say I self-identify as atheist. If I was asked “what are you”, it wouldn’t come high on the list if at all and I only refer to it in the context of discussions like this.

I’m curious whether when you’re talking about “self-identifying atheists”, you’re think of anyone who internally recognises that label or only those who choose to make it a public statement?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

This thread is really only aimed at people that self identify as 'atheist'.

It appears that self identifying as 'atheist' has become synonymous with making a positive assertion regarding the existence of deities. I don't want to put words into other peoples mouths so I will say no more other than to state what I actually mean when I say that I am an 'atheist'. If you also self identify as atheist then I am interested in your own statements regarding what 'atheism' means to you. Here is mine...

I am an atheist. I do not accept the positive assertion that deities exist because I have seen no evidence that supports that assertion; I reject the hypothesis of gods; I lack belief in their existence.

I don't like identifying as atheist these days, though it's accurate per definition. I call myself irreligious. Mainly because people started to claim that atheism is a religion. Well that destroys the entire point of me being atheist. So by defining myself as irreligious I make my true view and issue with 'god/religion' real obvious: I have no definable beliefs and associations. The religious dogma - keep me out.

The moment someone starts to argue that being irreligious is a religion is the moment I go ballistic and put stakes through people's eyeballs.

 

[Frank Apisa]

I don't like identifying as atheist these days, though it's accurate per definition. I call myself irreligious. Mainly because people started to claim that atheism is a religion. Well that destroys the entire point of me being atheist. So by defining myself as irreligious I make my true view and issue with 'god/religion' real obvious: I have no definable beliefs and associations. The religious dogma - keep me out.

The moment someone starts to argue that being irreligious is a religion is the moment I go ballistic and put stakes through people's eyeballs.

Well I cannot imagine anything that would make me want to put a stake through someone's eyeball...but anyone who claims that atheism or irreligion...is a religion...doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

Atheism IS NOT A RELIGION.

Often it is a belief...or a belief system. BUT NOT A RELIGION.

Neither is being irreligious a religion.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Well I cannot imagine anything that would make me want to put a stake through someone's eyeball...but anyone who claims that atheism or irreligion...is a religion...doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

Atheism IS NOT A RELIGION.

Often it is a belief...or a belief system. BUT NOT A RELIGION.

Neither is being irreligious a religion.

It's a lack of belief... and it's not a system. There's no guideline to it.

 

[Frank Apisa]

It's a lack of belief... and it's not a system. There's no guideline to it.

Often it is a "belief."

Read the posts from the atheists in this forum...and you will see.

For some, it is just a lack of belief.

For some...FOR MANY...it is much more.

 

[TheGoverness]

Often it is a "belief."

Read the posts from the atheists in this forum...and you will see.

For some, it is just a lack of belief.

For some...FOR MANY...it is much more.

Atheism is not a belief system.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Atheism is not a belief system.

Often it is...whether you are able to acknowledge it or not.

From Wikipedia:

A belief system is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological, or a combination of these.



Atheism often is a mutually supportive set of philosophical (and/or ideological) beliefs.

 

[TheGoverness]

Often it is...whether you are able to acknowledge it or not.

From Wikipedia:

A belief system is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological, or a combination of these.



Atheism often is a mutually supportive set of philosophical (and/or ideological) beliefs.

If that's true, then what are some of the philosophical and ideological beliefs that atheists hold?

 

[Frank Apisa]

If that's true, then what are some of the philosophical and ideological beliefs that atheists hold?

You tell me...you're the atheist.

I could make guesses...based on what I have heard some atheists say to me and what I have read of what some atheists have written.

 

[TheGoverness]

You tell me...you're the atheist.

I could make guesses...based on what I have heard some atheists say to me and what I have read of what some atheists have written.

Not all atheists believe the same thing. Some are anti-gay, some are SJW's, etc.

Unless you're willfully ignorant, you should have know that. Atheists do not abide by a doctrine or a set of beliefs.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Not all atheists believe the same thing. Some are anti-gay, some are SJW's, etc.

Okay...and I never said they all "believe" the same thing. I have no idea of what a SJW is...although it sounds like a Street Journal Wall.

 

[Manc Skipper]

You tell me...you're the atheist.

I could make guesses...based on what I have heard some atheists say to me and what I have read of what some atheists have written.

Fill your boots.

 

[TheGoverness]

Okay...and I never said they all "believe" the same thing. I have no idea of what a SJW is...although it sounds like a Street Journal Wall.

Then why are you continuing to say that atheism is a belief system? There is no doctrine we abide by.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

This thread is really only aimed at people that self identify as 'atheist'.

It appears that self identifying as 'atheist' has become synonymous with making a positive assertion regarding the existence of deities. I don't want to put words into other peoples mouths so I will say no more other than to state what I actually mean when I say that I am an 'atheist'. If you also self identify as atheist then I am interested in your own statements regarding what 'atheism' means to you. Here is mine...

I am an atheist. I do not accept the positive assertion that deities exist because I have seen no evidence that supports that assertion; I reject the hypothesis of gods; I lack belief in their existence.

The religious don't believe that because they've never met an atheist who simply rejects unfounded beliefs. They have, because that's the vast majority of atheists. They believe it because they can't debate against our real position, so they just make one up that's easier for them. By creating a false narrative of what atheists think, it's easier to shoot down. Their strawman is a weaker argument than our real position, which they prefer.

Anyway, I've also been an atheist who lacks belief since forever. I am thinking of re-classifying myself as an ignostic monist though.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Then why are you continuing to say that atheism is a belief system? There is no doctrine we abide by.

One doctrine most of you abide by...is to deny it can be a belief system.

 

[TheGoverness]

One doctrine most of you abide by...is to deny it can be a belief system.

That's not a doctrine.

 

[Frank Apisa]

That's not a doctrine.

Why not?

 

[Mach]

Often it is a "belief." Read the posts from the atheists in this forum...and you will see. For some, it is just a lack of belief.

Atheism is broadly lack of belief in deities.
That some or even many atheists have strong beliefs about the non-existence of gods or other things, is irrelevant. They are still atheists (above). And the definition still has inclusive meaning for any and all such atheists (it's consistent)

Probably ever atheist has some complex set of beliefs about a great many things. You'd have to ask them each about it. But if they are correctly an atheist, they will all have no belief in the existence of deities...

Do we know each others position on every political issue by the political lean label? No, so why would you think the term atheism has to encompass a person who happens to be an atheist's, entire belief system regarding deities or the non-existence thereof? It makes no sense. Having seen dozens of people inform you of this, surely you are beginning to understand this?

 

[Frank Apisa]

Atheism is broadly lack of belief in deities.
That some or even many atheists have strong beliefs about the non-existence of gods or other things, is irrelevant. They are still atheists (above). And the definition still has inclusive meaning for any and all such atheists (it's consistent)

Probably ever atheist has some complex set of beliefs about a great many things. You'd have to ask them each about it. But if they are correctly an atheist, they will all have no belief in the existence of deities...

Do we know each others position on every political issue by the political lean label? No, so why would you think the term atheism has to encompass a person who happens to be an atheist's, entire belief system regarding deities or the non-existence thereof? It makes no sense. Having seen dozens of people inform you of this, surely you are beginning to understand this?

I understand that some atheists do not have an active "belief" that there are no gods.

I also understand that SOME atheists do have an active "belief" that there are no gods.

I have stated this MANY times here.

When are you finally going to begin understanding that?

 

[Mach]

I understand that some atheists do not have an active "belief" that there are no gods.
I also understand that SOME atheists do have an active "belief" that there are no gods.
I have stated this MANY times here.

No one questioned the above (or cares?), we're correcting your misinformation about the label of atheism. Look at what I responded to for a clue to you know...what I responded to.

Frank: "Often [atheism] is a belief"

Again, incorrect.
Atheism is lack of belief in deities.
That some atheists also have beliefs about the non-existence of various gods doesn't change that broader definition.
Ask them about their beliefs, or use subcategories of the term atheist (weak atheism, strong, etc.)

Why are you fighting this?

 

[Frank Apisa]

No one questioned the above (or cares?), we're correcting your misinformation about the label of atheism. Look at what I responded to for a clue to you know...what I responded to.

Frank: "Often [atheism] is a belief"

Again, incorrect.

NO IT IS NOT INCORRECT.

Atheism is lack of belief in deities.

At times. At other times...it is active belief that there are no gods. We have lots of examples right here in this forum.

For you to suggest that atheism is simply a "lack of belief in deities" is self-serving, gratuitous misinformation.

That some atheists also have beliefs about the non-existence of various gods doesn't change that broader definition.

The "broader definition" is based on an error in etymology of the word...and is used as you are using it here...as self-serving diversion.

Ask them about their beliefs, or use subcategories of the term atheist (weak atheism, strong, etc.)

Do that if you want. I am saying that SOME atheists have an active "belief" that there are no gods. If you want to go through all those other terms...do it. Most people identify themselves as "atheists"...and that is the word I am using.

Why are you fighting this?

Why are you?

I suspect we both are fighting it for the same reason.

 

[TheGoverness]

NO IT IS NOT INCORRECT.




At times. At other times...it is active belief that there are no gods. We have lots of examples right here in this forum.

For you to suggest that atheism is simply a "lack of belief in deities" is self-serving, gratuitous misinformation.

You are misconstruing the actual definition of atheism and simply believing that no god exists.

 

[Frank Apisa]

You are misconstruing the actual definition of atheism and simply believing that no god exists.

Your statement makes no sense.

Take more care if you want to be involved.

 

[TheGoverness]

Your statement makes no sense.

Take more care if you want to be involved.

Your statements make no sense.

The definition of atheism is a lack of a belief in a god. That's it.

Atheism is NOT at belief system.