As Trump dithers over Ukraine, Russia’s military edge weakens, officials say

[german hick]

Why is it fair for Russia to give up Zaprozhia and Kherson? Russia rightfully retook these lands from Ukrainian Nazis. If anything, Russia should advance farther into Ukrainian territory and retake all land from this fake country.

proof givn that you are a Serbian/Russian imperialist, these rantings about nazism get more and more ridicolous. You choose your wording to avoid any honest debate anyway. "How can anyone refuse these great nations the right to controll any bully all their neighbours?"

 

[Jredbaron96]

Nuh-uh isn't an argument.

What an odd choice of argument given you entirely dropped your claim about Donbas.

 

[JoeB131]

'Overthrew' is a misleading word in this sentence.

Putin won't hold an election if he can't control the vote. Zelensky was elected in a fair election that was monitored by OCSE.

You said both were fascist, but a fascist won't submit an election to inspection.

Zelenskyy won't allow a vote either. So they are both Fascists.

Why are we involved again?

February 22, 2014
Everybody knew Yanukovich rejected the proposal of ties to the EU and instead he wanted closer ties with Russia. The people rioted in the streets at the capitol city and the Ukranian Parliament voted him out. Ukrainians did not want to be aligned with Russia. Who the * wants to be a Puppet for Putin?

You do realize Yanukovich disappeared after signing the mandates and showed up weeks later in Russia after escaping Ukraine? He gave up on his opposition and snuck out the back door.

Conditions Yanu signed on his last day in office:

• The Ukranian president cedes some powers to Parliament by returning to the 2004 constitution.
• He agreed to elections before the end of that year.
• He signed for immediate formation of a coalition government.

None of which were good enough for the Coup Plotters. You are making my point.

Their constitution prohibits an election during a declared war. More importantly, no international organization would recognize an election under conditions of potential attacks.

Again... Fascism.

Putin is a stunning example of everything that can go wrong with humankind. Hitler too.

And Zelenskyy. Who the hell puts a Comedian in charge of their country?

 

[JoeB131]

The government removed Yanukovich from office.



Why is 2019 an issue? That is when Zelensky ws elected.



Neo-Nazis. A fraction of a percentage of the Ukraine military.



Right.



And this has what to do with Zelensky?



Take it up with the Ukrainian constitution.

Nope, we just stop funding this farce.

Tell the Comedian he has 90 days to come to an agreement to end the war, or the weapons shipments stop.

Done.

 

[Quag]

Because Ukraine is equally fascist and this still isn't my problem.

Russia is a fascist dictatorship and Ukraine is a democracy with some fascist citizens.
Yet you are constantly falsely accusing Ukraine of being fascist and not complaining about the actual evil fascist state that started the war.

The way countries are governed may not be your problem but reality certainly is

 

[Quag]

Ukraine is rightful Russian land.

Fascist lie

I feel the same way about Israel and Gaza. Israel is just trying to retake Gaza (rightful Israeli land). Hopefully the snail Vučić retakes Kosovo (rightful Serbian land).

Dont give a crap about your felling on Israel/gaza in the Ukraine war thread

 

[Fledermaus]

Nope, we just stop funding this farce.

Tell the Comedian he has 90 days to come to an agreement to end the war, or the weapons shipments stop.

Done.

When has the US turned it's back on Russian aggression?

 

[JoeB131]

Russia is a fascist dictatorship and Ukraine is a democracy with some fascist citizens.
Yet you are constantly falsely accusing Ukraine of being fascist and not complaining about the actual evil fascist state that started the war.

The way countries are governed may not be your problem but reality certainly is

I gave you a list of why Ukraine is fascist. Banning political parties, not holding elections, arresting dissidents, state control of the media, arming fascist militias.

Are they slightly less noxious than the Russians?

Yes.

Are they worth World War III? Absolutely not.

Again- SUNK COST FALLACY- you don't keep throwing money at a lost cause because you've already lost so much money on it.

When has the US turned it's back on Russian aggression?

Well, Czechoslovakia in 1968
Hungary in 1956

because neither of those countries were worth a world war.

And neither is Ukraine.

 

[Quag]

I gave you a list of why Ukraine is fascist. Banning political parties, not holding elections, arresting dissidents, state control of the media, arming fascist militias.

They banned political parties that were tied to the country invading them that is not fascist
The constitution is why they havent had elections ie they are following the laws of the country and not being fascist
Arresting people aiding the country they are at war with is not being fascist
Stopping the spreading of false information or of information that could result in Ukrainian losses during a war is not being fascist
Arming anyone who will help you fight against an fascist invader is not being fascist

If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.-WSC

You know what is being fascist showing those that displease you the window and invading your democratic neighbors

Are they slightly less noxious than the Russians?

Yes.

Are they worth World War III? Absolutely not.

Again- SUNK COST FALLACY- you don't keep throwing money at a lost cause because you've already lost so much money on it.

If you want to avoid WW3 you dont appease the fascist dictator by sitting back to watch them invade and conquer their neighbors.

 

[JoeB131]

They banned political parties that were tied to the country invading them that is not fascist
The constitution...

Guy, guy, guy, you can always find an excuse to do something, but these are NOT things Democracies do.

The US held elections during Vietnam, Korea, World War II, the Philippine War, the Civil War, and the War of 1812.

We didn't ban political parties. (mostly). We didn't call off elections. We didn't shut down newspapers.

If you want to avoid WW3 you dont appease the fascist dictator by sitting back to watch them invade and conquer their neighbors.

You also don't provoke them by messing in their sphere of influence.

If China sent a couple of PLA divisions to Mexico, you know damned well that we'd do something about that.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Guy, guy, guy, you can always find an excuse to do something, but these are NOT things Democracies do.

No nation has to be complicit in its own destruction. No nation has to provide the enemy with the upper hand.

You are abandoning common sense in the guise of maintaining "democratic principles".

There is a plethora of reasons why countries include Martial Law in their Charters/Constitutions.

All nations react violently when invaded. Russia included (see: Kursk).

And Russia allows no pro-Ukrainian /anti-war sentiment within its borders. Not one iota.

L.A. ballerina sentenced to 12 years in Russian penal colony for 'high treason'

Ksenia Karelina was visiting family in Russia when investigators searched her phone and found she had donated to a Ukrainian charity.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[soap box]

Zelenskyy won't allow a vote either. So they are both Fascists.

No international organization will support or verify an election that happens during a state of war. You're denying simple facts.

Why are we involved again?

We oppose dictators and warmongers.

None of which were good enough for the Coup Plotters. You are making my point.

LOL, you can't refute the facts because you ignore the true timeline.

Again... Fascism.

That's a totally meaningless comment. You're denying simple facts.

And Zelenskyy. Who the hell puts a Comedian in charge of their country?

The Ukranian people voted for him because he was not aligned with Russia.

You are in denial of simple facts and your inability to address anything is simply and obviously because you have no point to make, but you need the last word to hide your lack of merit.

 

[Fledermaus]

I gave you a list of why Ukraine is fascist. Banning political parties, not holding elections, arresting dissidents, state control of the media, arming fascist militias.

Are they slightly less noxious than the Russians?

Yes.

Are they worth World War III? Absolutely not.

Again- SUNK COST FALLACY- you don't keep throwing money at a lost cause because you've already lost so much money on it.

Ukraine isn't fascist.

BTW

Tell us how the Pro Nazi Parties did in the US and the UK during WWII.

Well, Czechoslovakia in 1968
Hungary in 1956

because neither of those countries were worth a world war.

And neither is Ukraine.

Warsaw Pact nations?

Please, share.

HOW would we have been able to supply arms and equipment to either.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Typical MAGA. Willing to deny/subvert reality to advance Putin's agenda.

 

[BogJeSrbin]

Typical MAGA. Willing to deny/subvert reality to advance Putin's agenda.

Putin’s agenda in Ukraine is just. He is retaking rightful Russian land.

 

[Fledermaus]

Putin’s agenda in Ukraine is just. He is retaking rightful Russian land.

No

He isn't.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Putin’s agenda in Ukraine is just. He is retaking rightful Russian land.

Signed by Putin himself in 2003.....

Treaty on the Russian–Ukrainian border - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JoeB131]

No nation has to be complicit in its own destruction. No nation has to provide the enemy with the upper hand.

You are abandoning common sense in the guise of maintaining "democratic principles".

There is a plethora of reasons why countries include Martial Law in their Charters/Constitutions.

All nations react violently when invaded. Russia included (see: Kursk).

And Russia allows no pro-Ukrainian /anti-war sentiment within its borders. Not one iota.

Common sense would be pulling the Comedian by his ear and making him sit down at the negotiating table rather than continuing to fund the bloodbath.

No international organization will support or verify an election that happens during a state of war. You're denying simple facts.

The US Held elections during the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Second World War, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the War on Terror. And we didn't ask some pansy-ass "international organization" for permission.

We oppose dictators and warmongers.

They why do you support Zelenskyy?

The Ukranian people voted for him because he was not aligned with Russia.

You are in denial of simple facts and your inability to address anything is simply and obviously because you have no point to make, but you need the last word to hide your lack of merit.

No, I've made my points pretty clearly.

Ukraine is a lost cause.
There's no American interest in propping up that regime at the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars
And Putin, as noxious as he is, is not Adolf Hitler or even Josef Stalin.

Tell us how the Pro Nazi Parties did in the US and the UK during WWII.

Well, they realized they looked damned silly after Pearl Harbor. Sure the government arrested Fritz Kuhn (the head of the German-American Bund) but they largely left Charles Lindbergh and the rest of America First alone. (Kuhn, btw, was prosecuted on tax charges and imprisoned before the war even started.)

 

[JoeB131]

Warsaw Pact nations?

Please, share.

HOW would we have been able to supply arms and equipment to either.

Airdrops, if we really wanted to.

But we realized that it wasn't worth a world war.

and neither is Ukraine.

 

[Fledermaus]

Airdrops, if we really wanted to.

But we realized that it wasn't worth a world war.

and neither is Ukraine.

Airdrops of Artillery?

M60 tanks?

AFVs?

 

[soap box]

Common sense would be pulling the Comedian by his ear and making him sit down at the negotiating table rather than continuing to fund the bloodbath.


The US Held elections during the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Second World War, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the War on Terror. And we didn't ask some pansy-ass "international organization" for permission.

There was never an invasion or bombing of the lower 48. There were never GPS guided missiles during the wars you mentioned. International organizations didn't exist for most of the wars you mentioned.There were several monitored elections in Ukraine, why can't Putin participate in one now?

They why do you support Zelenskyy?

His orientation to the West is the same as all other free Europeans. That's why. He's already said he would not run for re-election if Putin stops the war.

No, I've made my points pretty clearly.

Ukraine is a lost cause.
There's no American interest in propping up that regime at the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars
And Putin, as noxious as he is, is not Adolf Hitler or even Josef Stalin.

Intel is already paid for, our spies can beat theirs. And almost every dollar has gone to manufacturing companies right here in the good ol USA.

 

[NWRatCon]

I gave you a list of why Ukraine is fascist. Banning political parties, not holding elections, arresting dissidents, state control of the media, arming fascist militias.

Are they slightly less noxious than the Russians?

Yes.

Are they worth World War III? Absolutely not.

Again- SUNK COST FALLACY- you don't keep throwing money at a lost cause because you've already lost so much money on it.



Well, Czechoslovakia in 1968
Hungary in 1956

because neither of those countries were worth a world war.

And neither is Ukraine.

You post Russian propaganda and lies, and yet you think you should be taken seriously. This is called "farce".

 

[Quag]

Guy, guy, guy, you can always find an excuse to do something, but these are NOT things Democracies do.

They did it in WW2
Perhaps if you learned about history instead of just lapping up fascist BS you would know that

The US held elections during Vietnam, Korea, World War II, the Philippine War, the Civil War, and the War of 1812.

The US constitution doesnt prevent it like the Ukrainain so what is your point that both coutnries follow their constitutons?

We didn't ban political parties. (mostly). We didn't call off elections. We didn't shut down newspapers.

Bolded destorys your pathetic attmept at a point and the newspapers were not run by the enemies of the USA, the govt did censor what they could write in WW2

You also don't provoke them by messing in their sphere of influence.

BS Russia doenst have the right to tell other countries what to do. I know you love the idea of fascist Russia dominating their neighbors and isntalling puppet regimes but no that isnt in any way being pro democratic proving you are just a pro fascist Russian schill

If China sent a couple of PLA divisions to Mexico, you know damned well that we'd do something about that.

I know damn well that If China sent forces into Mexico against the will of Mexico we would because invading other coutnries is wrong just like fascist Russia invasion of Ukraine is wrong.

 

[JoeB131]

Airdrops of Artillery?

M60 tanks?

AFVs?

Nope. Airdrops of small arms would have done the trick. It actually worked fine in Afghanistan. (Not that helping the Islamists in Afghanistan was a good idea.)

Certain point, you realize, that's their area of influence and we should really keep out of it.

There was never an invasion or bombing of the lower 48. There were never GPS guided missiles during the wars you mentioned. International organizations didn't exist for most of the wars you mentioned.There were several monitored elections in Ukraine, why can't Putin participate in one now?

Actually, there was an invasion of the Lower 48 (or back then the lower 18) during the War of 1812. The British even burned Washington to the ground in 1814.

The Civil War, fought entirely in the CONUS. Still managed to hold an election in 1864. (Albeit with the Southern States sitting it out.)

His orientation to the West is the same as all other free Europeans. That's why. He's already said he would not run for re-election if Putin stops the war.

Yeah, okay, sure. Why is this our problem again? If the Europeans are so concerned, let them fund his war and do the fighting.

Intel is already paid for, our spies can beat theirs. And almost every dollar has gone to manufacturing companies right here in the good ol USA.

Um, yeah, wouldn't it be cool if those went to fixing the roads and the schools in this country? (And I say the same for all the money we are throwing away in the Middle East trying to tie a pork chop around Israel's neck so the dogs will play with it.)

You post Russian propaganda and lies, and yet you think you should be taken seriously. This is called "farce".

Funny, I remember when sensible people were questioning the stupidity of the Vietnam War, and they were called "Commies", too.

The reality is Kyiv would fall faster than Saigon if we stopped propping it up

 

[Quag]

Putin’s agenda in Ukraine is just. He is retaking rightful Russian land.

Nothing but fascist Russian lies