Arpaio sending posse to look after schools

[Einzige]

rof This is an example of militia duty.

*sigh*

No, it isn't. By legal statute the National Guard constitutes the "well-regulated militia" today, the claims of various breeds of lunatics in their Mountain West compounds notwithstanding.

Seriously. Under any other circumstances, conservatives would - rightly - take this as an intrusion by a Big Brotheresque gendarme.

 

[Einzige]

Behold, someone mistaking a trolling for actual reasoned political opinion, applying it to his enemies and demonizing swaths of 'others'. One must nearly wonder if y'all are in cahoots.

One would be an idiot if one did. And I'm sure those poor, poor 'others' will survive my 'demonization' of them.

 

[apdst]

We should hire the Hell's Angels to do it :lamo

Seriously though, there are a lot of biker groups that would probably be willing to become involved somehow. Despite the stereotype of them being thugs, you could trust them to protect your kids with their lives.

I would feel more comfortable with the Angels, or the Banditos watching over my kids, while they're at school.

 

[ecofarm]

One would be an idiot if one did.

I don't think so. Partisan hackery is virtually dependent on opposing trolling. When indefensible trolling meets hard-nosed political hate, it's kinda like the sht hitting the fan. The sht needs the fan, the fan needs the sht, otherwise... will anyone notice either? In this way, inflamatory blurts and sht splattering partisan power belchs will always be together and, truly, are in cosmic cahoots.

 

[Jerry]

By legal statute the National Guard constitutes the "well-regulated militia" today.

You are speaking with a member of the National Guard, so let me educate you:

USC › Title 10 › Subtitle A › Part I › Chapter 13 › § 311

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Each and every single US citizen between 17 and 45 is a member of the unorganized militia.

Being called on to form a posse to protect schools is a perfect example of why every member of the unorganized militia has the right to arm themselves with the same personal firearms other civilian authorities do.

 

[mak2]

I never thought of that. Maybe you are on to something.

I don't think so. Partisan hackery is virtually dependent on opposing trolling. When indefensible trolling meets hard-nosed political hate, it's kinda like the sht hitting the fan. The sht needs the fan, the fan needs the sht, otherwise... will anyone notice either? In this way, inflamatory blurts and sht splattering partisan power belchs will always be together and, truly, are in cosmic cahoots.

 

[ecofarm]

I never thought of that. Maybe you are on to something.

Posts like that make this place worthwhile.

 

[Einzige]

unorganized militia.

You've just defeated your own point. The "organized" militia - the National Guard - has the proper legal purview to oversee something like this (not that that's a good idea, either). The "unorganized" militia is nothing more than the great masses of average citizens who possess firearms and who can be called upon to defend their homes in the event of an invasion.

That's it.

The "unorganized militia" has no more right to police schools than do street gangs. They certainly ought not be drafted into some ass-backwards idea to police schools that are basically under no threat of violence (how many schools, of the thousands in the nation, have ever seen a shooting? What fraction of one percent?).

 

[apdst]

You've just defeated your own point. The "organized" militia - the National Guard - has the proper legal purview to oversee something like this (not that that's a good idea, either). The "unorganized" militia is nothing more than the great masses of average citizens who possess firearms and who can be called upon to defend their homes in the event of an invasion.

That's it.

The "unorganized militia" has no more right to police schools than do street gangs. They certainly ought not be drafted into some ass-backwards idea to police schools that are basically under no threat of violence (how many schools, of the thousands in the nation, have ever seen a shooting? What fraction of one percent?).

You're saying that we don't have the right to protect our kids?

 

[Jerry]

The "organized" militia - the National Guard - has the proper legal purview to oversee something like this...

The Posse Comitatus Act aside, you're saying a sheriff has no authority to form a posse. This sheriff has the authority for form a posse. Yes, the NG is one way this could be delt with, but the NG requires an order from the Governor, and the Governor can only issue that order for specific emergencies, and then only for a pre-stated amount of time. Even with an order, the NG cannot be used in a general way for an indefinite period of time. "Guard the schools against crime until told otherwise" is illegal. You would have to have a sudden spree of school shootings in order to activate the NG, and even then our orders have an expiration date.

That, and the NG isn't cheap, especially if you keep us on orders after 30 days, because after 30 days we automatically go Federal under Title-10. A posse is very cheap, sometimes even free.

The "unorganized militia" has no more right to police schools than do street gangs.

A Sheriff deputizes the members of the posse when the posse is formed, it's quite legal. The purpose of the 2A, then, is for deputized citizens reporting as members of the posse can bring their own weapons suitable for the job.

 

[Einzige]

You're saying that we don't have the right to protect our kids?

Not only will this not protect "our kids" (the most asinine political cause celebre in American politics), but it will directly expose them to risks they'd otherwise not have.

How will you:

1. Guarantee that the parent of a bullied child won't decide to 'volunteer' in order to get in close with a firearm to the children who are bullying his?

2. Guarantee that paedophiles won't take advantage of and 'volunteer' to get themselves into a position of trust with the children they're 'protecting'?

3. Guarantee that gang members won't sign up in order to hit a student they dislike?

Screening isn't going to take care of all of these problems.

Moreover: There are how many thousands of schools, public and private, in the United States? How many have been the subject of a school shooting?

This isn't even a conservative policy. 'Conservatism' means a hesitancy to take radical measures to solve problems that reveal themselves more minute with hindsight, seen from the distance - precisely the opposite of this measure.

Moral hysteria is not a substitute for reasoned policy.

The Posse Comitatus Act aside, you're saying a sheriff has no authority to form a posse.

Posse Comitatus has nothing to do with a sheriff's posse. It regulates the ability of the Armed Forces to serve as police on American soil.

And virtually all jurisdictions place limits on the ability of the local sheriff to deputize civilians to emergency situations.

 

[jamesrage]

Arpaio is, without a doubt, the biggest attention whore presently holding elected office in the United States.

If pro-illegals and other pro-criminal scum didn't file phoney lawsuits and try to demonize the man then no one would know who he is. In otherwords he got attention because you people shined the spotlite on him and it backfired on you people.So now he is known as America's toughest sheffif and the people of his country continue to elect him.

 

[Jerry]

And how long until one of these guys shoots a kid? Angry, authoritative, armed men in large groups, without proper accountability or supervision. Oh yeah, that's gonna go great...

What makes you think a deputized posse will act this way? You assume the Sheriff has no application process? You think a Sheriff isn't first placing his own Police in his considerations? You think a Sharif isn't running background checks, looking for military/police/security experience?

I guess folks don't trust cops (the sheriff is a cop) as much as I thought.

 

[Einzige]

If pro-illegals and other pro-criminal scum didn't file phoney lawsuits and try to demonize the man then no one would know who he is. In otherwords he got attention because you people shined the spotlite on him and it backfired on you people.So now he is known as America's toughest sheffif and the people of his country continue to elect him.

Arpaio bought a tank.
To use in drug busts.

No, he's basically an attention whore.

 

[Einzige]

What makes you think a deputized posse will act this way?

What makes you so trusting as to disbelieve that all sorts of undesirables will take advantage of this?

Hell, if I wanted to commit a school shooting, I'd 'volunteer' my services just to have a reason to be there with a gun.

 

[Diogenes]

I absolutely love it. Know what I like best? It's all-volunteer. It's never too late to take the power back.

Spot on! Especially your last observation.

 

[Diogenes]

Of all the people I know, only one is an ex-felon for possession of drugs from an era when his crimes were felonies and today would have been misdemeanors.

Nobody in my network is more honest, more reliable, more loyal, more generous or more likely to take a bullet to protect others. Yet he is condemned for life to be derided as a criminal.

As a group, many of us are old gits. We're neither stupid nor senile. You'd be lucky to have us as friends and lucky to have us protecting your children.

You speak truth. I know several great people who can't go back to Massachusetts, Indiana, or where ever because of an old outstanding warrant. They make great neighbors.

 

[Diogenes]

And how long until one of these guys shoots a kid? Angry, authoritative, armed men in large groups, without proper accountability or supervision. Oh yeah, that's gonna go great...

Not to worry. The volunteers are unlikely to be liberals.

 

[Jerry]

Posse Comitatus has nothing to do with a sheriff's posse.

I never said it did.

You were talking about the NG, and so was I.

It regulates the ability of the Armed Forces to serve as police on American soil.

Good job, you stated the painfully obvious the rest of us already knew, you're just about caught up with the discussion.

And virtually all jurisdictions place limits on the ability of the local sheriff to deputize civilians to emergency situations.

Yup, posses operate within limits, just like every other authority.

In other news, the sky is blue.

 

[jamesrage]

Arpaio bought a tank.
To use in drug busts.

No, he's basically an attention whore

A lot of police departments have tanks/armored vehicles. It doesn't make him an attention whore.If you people were not busy trying to demonize the man then no one would know who he is.But thanks to pro-illegals and other pro-criminal scum in the media trying to demonize the man everyone knows who he is and likes what he does.

 

[Jerry]

Not only do a lot of these Sheriff Joke brown shirt wannabe's qualify as senile old gits, they are also criminals...

Arpaio wants his army of 3,000 volunteer posse members to look like sworn deputies and sometimes perform the same duties. But an in-depth project by CBS 5 Investigates uncovered a number of posse members with arrests for assault, drug possession, domestic violence, sex crimes against children, disorderly conduct, impersonating an officer - and the list goes on.

What better way to rehabilitate a criminal who's paid their debt to society then to get them involved with positive civil service?

Or were you assuming that criminals don't already drop their children off at your child's school?

 

[Einzige]

To get to the actually relevant point:

Yup, posses operate within limits, just like every other authority.

In other news, the sky is blue.

Most of those limits involve actual emergencies, not the threat of one that's less likely than being struck twice by lightning.

Again: this is not a conservative policy. This is raw populist emotionalism masquerading as social concern.

 

[Einzige]

What better way to rehabilitate a criminal who's paid their debt to society then to get them involved with positive civil service?

Or were you assuming that criminals don't already drop their children off at your child's school?

What a brilliant idea - let's rehabilitate ex-convicts by giving them guns and putting them in schools.

Seriously? This is something you're seriously advocating?

 

[jamesrage]

What makes you so trusting as to disbelieve that all sorts of undesirables will take advantage of this?

Hell, if I wanted to commit a school shooting, I'd 'volunteer' my services just to have a reason to be there with a gun.

You would probably be the stupidest mass shooter for doing that. You really think someone would try a mass shooting while being surround by other people with firearms? Every place that has had a mass shooting happened in area where people are generally disarmed even the fort hood shooter shot at a place where no one was going to be armed. Mass shooters like unarmed targets, this is why you never hear about mass shootings on firing ranges, police stations, NRA or GOA meetings , and gun shows.

 

[mak2]

Someone on Fox was talking about arming returning veterans and posting them in and around schools. This would employ the vets and keep our children safe. This was such a bad idea for the vets it is nearly unbeliveable someone would throw it out there, even Fox. But the RW site I sometimes hang out on, was all for it. Geeze, what could go wrong?