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Armed texas dad takes on three home intruders

ostuffman said:
Just because you an name a few big cities with high crime rates does not mean that you speak for the entire nation. A study from Children's Hospital in Boston did the background check, if you just type in Boston Children's Hospital Background Checks Study on google you'll find it. But background checks clearly help stop gun violence. When Missouri repealed on of their background check law, gun homicides increased 25%.
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No. You need to post the study. Then I will look at it. However your dodge is noted. If you remove suicide and inner city minority on minority gun crime from the national statistics you will find that our gun homicide and crime rates are no higher than other industrialized nations with much stricter gun laws. 75% of the gun deaths in the US are inner city related. Not just any inner city, but city's with some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation like DC.
 
TurtleDude said:
passing laws that not only are ignored by criminals but due to the fifth amendment, cannot even be applied to criminals
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Since the passing of NICS, 2 million felons were stopped from buying guns. I guess those criminals did not "ignore" the law
 
OK, I have to hit the hay soon, and I don't have nough time to reply to all of you before the I have to go to bed. Who wants to have a good ol face to face video chat debate on Deeyoon?
 
CRUE CAB said:
Um, we already have background checks. Dont be fooled by the government propaganda.
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Eighteen(?) states still aren't complying with the current background check system. Thatsa lotta holes.
 
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ostuffman said:
It does not really make it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase weapons, they just have to go through a background check, the only reason why someone would be afraid to go trhough a background check is if they have something to hide. I'm sure that there are several liberals who do want all guns banned, but that's not a majority
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Or they value their privacy. Or they don't want to pay the cost (around $200 in some areas). Or they are very much Pro-Second Amendment and believe that the government has no buisness making laws that demand people go through checks to exercise a Right.

And really, that whole line is BS. That is the same line they used to get the Patriot Act passed all the while claiming that it would not be abused or used against the masses. Last I checked, thanks to Snowden, it being used against the masses (millions of Verizon customers) is exactly what happened.
 
ostuffman said:
Just because you an name a few big cities with high crime rates does not mean that you speak for the entire nation. A study from Children's Hospital in Boston did the background check, if you just type in Boston Children's Hospital Background Checks Study on google you'll find it. But background checks clearly help stop gun violence. When Missouri repealed on of their background check law, gun homicides increased 25%.
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When you make a claim, it's on you to source it. In debate, what you claim is false until proven true.
 
ostuffman said:
It does not really make it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase weapons, they just have to go through a background check, the only reason why someone would be afraid to go trhough a background check is if they have something to hide. I'm sure that there are several liberals who do want all guns banned, but that's not a majority
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You don't speak for anyone, definitely not the majority. You are guessing.

I have a Florida CCW, I don't go through a waiting period or a background check either way. The fact is if I wanted to sell a privately owned gun, now I have to go through a gun shop which means more cost. The only one who benefits is the gun ship.
 
ostuffman said:
Since the passing of NICS, 2 million felons were stopped from buying guns. I guess those criminals did not "ignore" the law
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How do you know they didn't acquire a gun illegally after the NICS denial?
 
ostuffman said:
It does not really make it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase weapons, they just have to go through a background check, the only reason why someone would be afraid to go trhough a background check is if they have something to hide. I'm sure that there are several liberals who do want all guns banned, but that's not a majority
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The purpose of NICS is to establish a registry. The purpose of a gun-registry is to facilitate confiscation.
 
Jerry said:
What kind of holes?
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Like thousands of verified mentally ill not entered into the national database. If Virginia had entered it's data, the Virginia Tech killer wouldn't have been able to buy a gun from a licensed legal dealer. Since the massacre, Virginia now enters it's data.
 
Black Manta said:
No. You need to post the study. Then I will look at it. However your dodge is noted. If you remove suicide and inner city minority on minority gun crime from the national statistics you will find that our gun homicide and crime rates are no higher than other industrialized nations with much stricter gun laws. 75% of the gun deaths in the US are inner city related. Not just any inner city, but city's with some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation like DC.
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OK fine. Check Study: States with more gun laws have less gun violence and Gun Homicides Increased 25 Percent After Missouri Repealed Background Check Law | ThinkProgress
 
Jerry said:
How do you know they didn't acquire a gun illegally after the NICS denial?
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I've known people who have tried to illegally acquire guns, trust me, it's a pain in the ass, all of the people I know who tried just gave up. In order to acquire a gun illegally, you must first find a law abiding citizen who is willing to sell his gun to someone who he knows is a criminal. People like that usually have criminal records in the first place
 
mtguy8787 said:
False.

Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Click on the Brady Law to organize it from most to least. As anyone can see, the data shows this is clearly false.
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The chart in your link shows the murder rate per 100K rate is higher in the conservative southern states that have the least gun regulations (Alabama, Arizonia, Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, etc.) than it is in more liberal states like California and New York which have the strictest gun regulations.
 
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ostuffman said:
OK fine. Check Study: States with more gun laws have less gun violence and Gun Homicides Increased 25 Percent After Missouri Repealed Background Check Law | ThinkProgress
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And guess what? That study is old. The homicide rate dropped in Missouri below 2007 levels in 2011, and are lower than 2007 at 4.23% in 2012. So the study showed there was a temporary jump, and then without the law in place crime dropped even lower. Go figure. Where does that leave your old study now?
 
ostuffman said:
First of all, I have no idea where you got that statistic, but I'm sure you pulled it out of your ass. Second, even inf it's true, what's wrong with stoppping 2%? That's 2% of criminals who would have owned guns otherwise. Anyway, the statistics show that states with more gun control tend to have way less gun violence
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Actually, its less than 1%

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

And for criminals with no previous convictions, background checks will do nothing -- which further reduces the significance of

Its extremely simplistic to think that since 1% of criminals get it from gun shows, then regulating gun shows will stop them.

As for your claim about gun control and gun violence, I already proved that false in my previous post.

Here's some more statistics for you -- using a more meaningful statistic -- gun ownership.

~~~

As one can see, in the low crime states, gun ownership is just as high as in the high crime states.

D.c 16.5 - 3.8
Louisiana 7.7 - 44.1
Missouri 5.4 - 41.1
Maryland 5.1 - 21.1
South Carolina 4.5 - 42.3
Delaware 4.2 - 25.5
Michigan 4.2 - 38.4
Missisipi 4.0 - 55.3
Florida 3.9 - 24.5
Georgia 3.8 - 40.3
Arizona 3.6 - 31.1
Pennsylvania 3.6 - 34.7
California 3.4 - 21.3
New Mexico 3.3 - 34.8
Arkansas 3.2 - 55.8
Texas 3.2 - 35.9
Nevada 3.1 - 33.8
Virginia 3.1 - 35.1
North Carolina 3.0 - 41.3
Oklahoma 3.0 - 42.9
Alabama 2.8 - 51.7
Illinois 2.8 - 20.2
New Jersy 2.8 - 12.3
Alaska 2.8 - 57.8
Connecticut 2.7 - 16.7
Kentucky 2.7 - 47.7
New York 2.7 - 18.0
Ohio 2.7 - 32.4
Tennessee 2.5 - 43.9
Indiana 2.2 - 39.1
Kansas 2.2 - 42.1
Mass 1.8 - 12.6
Nebraska 1.8 - 38.6
Wisconsin 1.7 - 44.4
Rhode Island 1.5 - 12.8
West Virginia 1.5 - 55.4
Washingtin 1.4 - 33.1
Colorado 1.3 - 34.7
Montana 1.2 - 57.7
Minnesota 1.0 - 41.7
South Dakota 1.0 - 56.6
Oregon .9 - 39.8
Wyoming .9 - 59.7
Idaho .8 - 55.3
Maine .8 - 40.5
Utah .8 - 43.9
Iowa .7 - 42.8
North Dakota .6 - 50.7
Hawaii .5 - 8.7
New Hampshire .3 - 30.0
Vermont .3 - 42.0

Gun Ownership by State (washingtonpost.com)
 
ostuffman said:
I've known people who have tried to illegally acquire guns...
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Please link to all these people or they don't exist and you made it up.

ostuffman said:
...trust me...
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This is a debate site, we do not trust anyone.

ostuffman said:
In order to acquire a gun illegally, you must first find a law abiding citizen who is willing to sell his gun to someone who he knows is a criminal. People like that usually have criminal records in the first place
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That's for straw-purchasing, and the buyer would pass all NICS, which is why they charge so much. What about all the other illegal means of getting a gun...such as theft?
 
ostuffman said:
OK, you have the wiki that anyone can edit on your side, I have usatoday, thinkprogress, nbcnews, boston.comr, and many more. Need proof?
https://www.google.com/#output=sear...608,d.dmg&fp=d865688d403765a&biw=1366&bih=643
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The data comes from the FBI, genius.

Also, quoting multiple news sources that cite the same data does not change your argument.

Those news sources you mention are also great at cherry picking facts, by picking two states, and comparing them.

If you look at the full set of data, you see that there are many states that score high on the brady scale, and also high in gun homicide, and many states that score low, and have low gun homicide. The data is all over the place.

Using methods in the studies that you mentioned -- aka combining all the data into one set and drawing a correlation, is a very weak tool to use when it comes to criminological analysis of different states.
 
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