Armed texas dad takes on three home intruders

TurtleDude · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
It makes it harder for someone with a criminal record to buy a gun. Instead of being able to buy one in a gunstore or gun show, they must find another way to get them. Anyway, it has denterred crime. States with more gun laws have a mortality rate 42% lower than states without

uh its already illegal to do that. you continue to parrot left wing talking points that have no basis in fact

the brady bill required that all licensed dealers require a purchaser to undergo a background check. the vast majority of guns are sold through licensed dealers-including at Gun shows. Guess what, a massive study was conducted TRYING TO PROVE that the Brady bill did some good

ALL THEY COULD FIND WAS THAT THE WAITING PERIOD MAY have stopped a few SUICIDES In one age cohort IT DID NOTHING TO STOP VIOLENT CRIMINALS GETTING GUNS OR VIOLENT CRIME

TurtleDude · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
That's one city dip****. In DC, my hometown, gun violence has gone down, 17 percent fewer firearms are involved in aggravated assaults

where would that be? chances are its due to people being able to carry guns

insulting other posters is a sure fire sign you are getting your butt handed to you here

Jerry · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
It makes it harder for someone with a criminal record to buy a gun. Instead of being able to buy one in a gunstore or gun show, they must find another way to get them. Anyway, it has denterred crime. States with more gun laws have a mortality rate 42% lower than states without

From that study:

Despite the findings, researchers did not establish a cause and effect relationship between guns and deaths. Rather, they could only establish an association. That failure illustrates the limits of the study, said Garen Wintemute, an emergency physician and director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis. "Policy makers can really draw no conclusion from this study," Wintemute said, explaining that the study doesn't provide critical answers to which laws work and why.

Study: States with more gun laws have less gun violence

ostuffman · Jul 5, 2013

Kal'Stang said:
The amount of guns that universal criminal background checks would stop from getting guns is at most 2% and that is only if the go through gun shows. The rest are either stolen or bought on black market or gotten through straw purchases which background checks will not stop.

Ultimately background checks are more of a hinderence to law abiding citizens than criminals.

First of all, I have no idea where you got that statistic, but I'm sure you pulled it out of your ass. Second, even inf it's true, what's wrong with stoppping 2%? That's 2% of criminals who would have owned guns otherwise. Anyway, the statistics show that states with more gun control tend to have way less gun violence

ostuffman · Jul 5, 2013

TurtleDude said:
any proof of that

I call BS. and why not demand all cocaine and heroin sales require a prescription? that will get rid of drug abuse.

Do you want to see the statistics?

Jerry · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
First of all, I have no idea where you got that statistic...

The NICS system is linked to several databases managed by the FBI, including the National Crime Information Center, and runs an individual's name through federal and state criminal records.

CNN Poll: Background checks popular, worrisome

Under the current NICS system, buyers may be denied the purchase of a firearm for reasons such as being indicted or convicted of a felony, admitting to being addicted to a controlled substances, having been dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces, being subject to a restraining order, as well as other regulations.

Since its implementation in 1998, 2.1 million background checks have been denied out of 118 million requests, or almost 2%.[/B]

.......
The current system cannot force states to share all of their records with the NICS database, especially ones regarding mental health. This lack of records allows some people with mental issues to legally purchase guns.

Seung-Hui Cho, the shooter in the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, had been declared mentally ill by a judge two years before he murdered 32 people. But Cho had gone through a background check and been cleared.

Background checks on gun sales: How do they work? - CNN.com

140 Million Checks and Counting On December 17, 2011, NICS’ staff processed its 140 millionth firearms background check. The transaction was an immediate proceed for a long gun purchase out of Paris, Arkansas. This is a significant milestone in the system’s history since its beginning in 1998.

NICS Index on the Rise

In January 2008, Congress signed the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 (NIAA), which authorized the Attorney General to obtain electronic versions of information on individuals disqualified by federal law from purchasing or possessing firearms; that information is stored in the NICS Index for use in determining eligibility to purchase firearms. (The NICS Index contains information on individuals who are prohibited from possessing a firearm when disqualifying information may not be available through the National Crime Information Center or the Interstate Identification Index.) The NIAA also required the Attorney General to establish regulations and procedures to protect the privacy of records submitted to the NICS, through consultations with state and mental health agencies regarding the adequacy of proposed regulations.

Since the NIAA was signed into law in January 2008, statistical totals for all NICS Index categories have more than doubled. From January 31, 2008, to December 31, 2011, state entry totals in the NICS Index increased from 1,090,099 to 2,289,386. State mental health entries in the NICS Index saw a similar increase from 405,761 to 1,218,156 for the same time period.

One of the biggest hurdles to states submitting records to the NICS Index is state laws that prohibit sharing mental health information. However, states are required to make this information available if they wish to obtain grant funding through the NICS Act Record Improvement Program (NARIP). The state of Oregon received NARIP funding in 2009 and 2010, using the $770,849 and $2 million, respectively, to update criminal history records and automate systems to achieve NICS Index participation and share disqualifying mental health information. During the last few days of 2011, Oregon submitted 24,729 mental health entries to the NICS Index.

FBI — NICS Hits Record Days as Index Continues to Rise

BUFORD: In California, the courts are required to send that information to us electronically and, in some cases, on paper. We take that information. We upload it to our California system, and then the California system also feeds into the federal system. CORNISH: And over time, we've heard about several obstacles that some states may have in terms of keeping their databases current. For instance, mental health records. Now, California had had a central records keeping for mental health records since 1991. But it took you guys more than a decade to actually start sending those to the federal government. What were some of the obstacles and what do you think other states are facing?

CORNISH: Another obstacle states have discussed is in terms of getting up-to-speed, they might want help or grant money from the federal government. And yet, because of the gun restoration policy, this is the policy that allows people who have been blocked because of mental health records, to have their gun rights reinstated. Some states have - that's actually been an impediment to them applying for funding. Can you talk about why that is?

BUFORD: A little bit, you know. I think the big issue there is, you know, who bears the burden of implementing and maintaining that restitution program? The grant monies that the feds have placed out there for these particular programs just aren't sufficient enough to fund the program. So there has to be a sufficient, you know, you can't just lay it out there and say, go implement this program. There has to be sufficient funding and it can't be small amounts of funding. It has to be sufficient to fund the entire program.

BUFORD: There are some gaps in the system, but I'd rather have the system with the gaps than no system at all, no federal system at all. You know, we use federal records all the time to deny people the legal and lawful aliens, you know, here illegally and unlawfully, they could be criminals. We use it to deny people that are mental defectives in other states and people that are under restraining orders.

So I think it's important to have that information regardless of the gaps. I think we should focus on how do we build that system out, how do we eliminate those gaps. That's where the discussion should start at is eliminating the gaps, providing sufficient funding for all states to contribute and participate. I think that's the best thing that we can do as a nation, you know, and as a people.
http://www.npr.org/2013/01/14/169363285/gun-background-check-system-lacks-money-state-compliance

Majority of Gun Dealers Haven’t been Inspected in Last 5 Years

Josh Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, told USA Today that ATF has “an appalling lack of resources” to do its job.

Majority of Gun Dealers Haven’t been Inspected in Last 5 Years - Democratic Underground

TurtleDude · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
Do you want to see the statistics?

Sure, I know what the evidence is, I am just waiting for your proof. none of the anti gun groups have been able to come up with any though

ostuffman · Jul 5, 2013

ttwtt78640 said:
What do you mean by all places? Universal BG check laws do not expand which places do BG checks, (only FFL dealers can do them) they only mandate that all "legal" gun transfers must then go through them for a fee and that records of all such transactions be made available to the gov't. Texas (4.4) has a lower murder rate than New Jersey (6.8) but much less restrictive gun laws.

I'm assuming that it includes gun shows and any other means of getting a gun, and they check for things such as if yu have a criminal record. But the statistics speak for themselves. Massachusetts has only 3.4 gun related deaths per 100,000 people, while Louisiana has 18, and Alaska has 17.5

TurtleDude · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
I'm assuming that it includes gun shows and any other means of getting a gun, and they check for things such as if yu have a criminal record. But the statistics speak for themselves. Massachusetts has only 3.4 gun related deaths per 100,000 people, while Louisiana has 18, and Alaska has 17.5

and Chicago and DC had more murders than a dozen states with sensible gun laws combined

ostuffman · Jul 5, 2013

Jerry said:
Most illegal guns are stolen from homes and cars. How are you going to run NICS on a burglar before he grabs the gun?

Do you have any proof on that? I would think that if guns were as effective as the rnight wingers say they are, then a gun owner would be able to stop people from stealing a gun from his home. And what kind of moron leaves a gun in his car?

ostuffman · Jul 5, 2013

Jerry said:
Of the 3 men who assaulted this home, one brandished a gun. Do we know how he got that gun and if NICS was run on him at the time?

I don't think we do know. Maybe we'll find out

Jerry · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
Do you want to see the statistics?

I see you like statistics. I like statistics too...

You are 24.91 times more likely to simply trip over something and die then to die by any-kind of unintended gunshot.

National Vital Statistics Report

Diseases of heart....................................652,091

Malignant neoplasms (Cancer).....................559,312

Cerebrovascular diseases (Strokes)..............143,579

Chronic lower respiratory diseases.............130,933

Accidents (unintentional injuries)...................117,809

Diabetes mellitus .....................................75,119

Alzheimer’s disease ..................................71,599

Influenza and pneumonia ..........................63,001

Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephritis...43,901

Septicemia..............................................34,136

Intentional self-harm (suicide)......................32,637

Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis................27,530

Hypertension and hypertensive renal disease.24,902

Parkinson’s disease ..................................19,544

Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids ............16,959

Simple Falling Down...................................19,656

Assault (homicide) by discharge of firearms.....12,352

Accidental discharge of Firearm.......................789

Suicide by Discharge of Firearms..................17,002

Accidental Drowning and Submersion............3,582

Accidental Poisoning.................................23,618

Motor Vehicle Accidents............................45,343

Non-Transport Accidents...........................69,368

WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE? A REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL AND SOME DOMESTIC EVIDENCE
Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy

View attachment 67129742

Guns are just one among numerous available deadly instruments. Thus, banning guns cannot reduce the amount of suicides. Such measures only reduce the number of suicides by firearms. Suicides committed in other ways increase to make up the difference. People do not commit suicide because they have guns available. They kill themselves for reasons they deem sufficient, and in the absence of firearms they just kill themselves in some other way.

Spartacus FPV · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
Do you have any proof on that? I would think that if guns were as effective as the rnight wingers say they are, then a gun owner would be able to stop people from stealing a gun from his home. And what kind of moron leaves a gun in his car?

What does their efficacy have to do with the ease with which they are stolen?

Guns aren't auto-turrets, unless you're there to use them in defense in a robbery, they will sit idle for a thief to reach.

Jerry · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
I don't think we do know. Maybe we'll find out

How can you propose a solution if you don't know? For all we know at this point, the gun was bought from an FFL and either the brandisher did pass an NICS, or, paid someone to straw-perches it.

FederalRepublic · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
And what kind of moron leaves a gun in his car?

The kind whose neighbors have made it illegal to carry on your person.

Jerry · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
And what kind of moron leaves a gun in his car?

What's wrong with leaving a gun in a car?

Some states honor gun-buster signs. You don't generally know in advance, you find out when you get there. So you pull up to some store or restaurant and see the sign, and thus you have to leave your gun in the car.

ostuffman · Jul 5, 2013

Black Manta said:
What propaganda nipple have you been suckling on? That is absolutely not true. Chicago, DC, New York, Detroit, Miami to name a few. Any large metropolitan with a large minority community has a higher rate of crime period, let alone gun crime. Please show where you got this 40% from?

Just because you an name a few big cities with high crime rates does not mean that you speak for the entire nation. A study from Children's Hospital in Boston did the background check, if you just type in Boston Children's Hospital Background Checks Study on google you'll find it. But background checks clearly help stop gun violence. When Missouri repealed on of their background check law, gun homicides increased 25%.

Kal'Stang · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
First of all, I have no idea where you got that statistic, but I'm sure you pulled it out of your ass. Second, even inf it's true, what's wrong with stoppping 2%? That's 2% of criminals who would have owned guns otherwise. Anyway, the statistics show that states with more gun control tend to have way less gun violence

Cato Institute ~ The Facts about Gun Shows

And even if you get universal back ground checks on gun shows it wouldn't stop them. They will just go to another source.

Bold: False. Don't believe me? Check out Washington DC and Chicago. Two places with the most gun control in the US and at the same time among the highest gun crime in the US.

ostuffman · Jul 5, 2013

Jerry said:
From that study:

Even if they did not find a real cause and effect, they still established a strong corrolation between gun laws and reduced gun violence. If you need something more direct, when Missouri repealed one of their background check laws, gun homicides increased 25%

Jerry · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
Just because you an name a few big cities with high crime rates does not mean that you speak for the entire nation. A study from Children's Hospital in Boston did the background check, if you just type in Boston Children's Hospital Background Checks Study on google you'll find it. But background checks clearly help stop gun violence.

I did Google it.

From that study:

Despite the findings, researchers did not establish a cause and effect relationship between guns and deaths. Rather, they could only establish an association. That failure illustrates the limits of the study, said Garen Wintemute, an emergency physician and director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis. "Policy makers can really draw no conclusion from this study," Wintemute said, explaining that the study doesn't provide critical answers to which laws work and why.

Study: States with more gun laws have less gun violence

Crosscheck · Jul 5, 2013

Jerry said:
I have to agree.

Here in SD we do not honor gun-buster signs on private businesses AND open carry is legal, unlike Texas. Clearly South Dakota is better than everyone else.

Besides that one week in August for Sturgis do you even have crime in South Dakota?

Jerry · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
Even if they did not find a real cause and effect, they still established a strong corrolation between gun laws and reduced gun violence. If you need something more direct, when Missouri repealed one of their background check laws, gun homicides increased 25%

The couldn't tell which laws had what effect, so that study can't support your claim that NICS is the solution.

ostuffman · Jul 5, 2013

Black Manta said:
By making it harder for us to purchase the weapons we want and then banning models of weapons we want. You do not speak for anyone but yourself. I can list plenty of names of liberal/progressive's who want all guns banned, period. So for you to make an asinine blanket statement like In what way do we want to "harass" the "honest people" is laughable at best. Need I say Dianne Fienstien etc???

It does not really make it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase weapons, they just have to go through a background check, the only reason why someone would be afraid to go trhough a background check is if they have something to hide. I'm sure that there are several liberals who do want all guns banned, but that's not a majority

TurtleDude · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
Just because you an name a few big cities with high crime rates does not mean that you speak for the entire nation. A study from Children's Hospital in Boston did the background check, if you just type in Boston Children's Hospital Background Checks Study on google you'll find it. But background checks clearly help stop gun violence. When Missouri repealed on of their background check law, gun homicides increased 25%.

asking doctors for advice about guns is like buying guns and ammo to find a cure for herpes

TurtleDude · Jul 5, 2013

ostuffman said:
It does not really make it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase weapons, they just have to go through a background check, the only reason why someone would be afraid to go trhough a background check is if they have something to hide. I'm sure that there are several liberals who do want all guns banned, but that's not a majority

when most liberals support stupid laws that don't even apply to criminals and the minute a stupid law is passed these same liberals start supporting another law-guess what

its easy to conclude that liberals are generally dishonest about their goals and a complete ban is what they want

Armed texas dad takes on three home intruders

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