• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Arizona voters approve Prop. 208, education tax on state's highest earners

Common Sense 1 said:
Sounds like New York.... Tax, tax, tax.

California people flocking to Arizona have ruined the state.
Click to expand...

Not totally, but they are working hard at it.

The conservatives in AZ are in disarray as they were devastated by McCain and his brand of vindictive politics. Farther into the Ozone you have the extremists who seem to still own a fair amount of political real estate.
 
Ginger Ale said:
So glad that passed!!

So proud of Arizona!!
Click to expand...

For what ?

Education isn't money. But somehow we seem to think throwing more money at education assuages our failing our kids at more fundamental levels.

I guess that is something I am not proud of.
 
AZ Republicans have taken Prop 208 to the State SC. Will be interesting to see how the court decides.

kjzz.org

GOP lawmakers want Arizona Supreme Court to kill Proposition 208 education tax

Republican lawmakers are urging the Arizona Supreme Court to immediately rule that a voter-approved tax on the wealthy can’t be enforced, saying the high court already found a key provision unconstitutional and a trial court judge is needlessly delaying issuing a ruling that would effectively...
kjzz.org kjzz.org

Having been in Arizona since 89, I can say that our education system is in need of help. Some lawmakers seem to think charter schools funded with public money is the answer.
I am suspect of that. Especially when a few of the State lawmakers behind the proposals have vested interest in charter schools.
 
Luther said:
Mob rule?

I love how those that don't even pay a tax can make those that pay taxes pay even more






www.azcentral.com

Arizona voters approve Prop. 208, education tax on state's highest earners

Arizona voters have approved Proposition 208, a measure that would raise money for educator salaries by taxing the state's highest earners.
www.azcentral.com
Click to expand...
Wow! I'm all for paying teachers more. If you want the best people you have to pay them to make the job more attractive. However this is a responsibility that every citizens should share, and the federal government should pass a minimum salary for teachers law.
This would be easier to do if taxes were levied to do just that. I don't know what a reasonable raise would be, that would take some study but let's say up starting pay at least $10,000 with increases in step adjustments over the course of the time served. Figuring how much that should be wouldn't be that difficult. Everyone shares from the benefits of public schooling, just like they benefit from public roads. Everyone should pay. Another option to raise teacher salaries would be to free them from state and federal taxation. Although that wouldn't be a substantial wage increase for the majority of teachers.

It's clear that we under tax the wealth in this nation and at the same time we over spend and waste a tremendous amount of the tax dollars we have. More responsible spending coupled with a slight increase of taxes on corporations, businesses, and individuals is reasonable. Any increase should be structured just as we currently have, by increasing wealth. We just need to lessen the exemptions and loopholes on the wealthiest sector.
 
Oh, so democracy is mob rule now?
 
Ginger Ale said:
Ok, Miss Ohio.

What's going on here in your view? Don't take my word for it, I'm just a native Arizonan. Let's hear the backup.

I mean, we can't let all that studying go to waste.
Click to expand...
That temperature tho. Jfc!
 
Integrityrespec said:
Wow! I'm all for paying teachers more. If you want the best people you have to pay them to make the job more attractive. However this is a responsibility that every citizens should share, and the federal government should pass a minimum salary for teachers law.
This would be easier to do if taxes were levied to do just that. I don't know what a reasonable raise would be, that would take some study but let's say up starting pay at least $10,000 with increases in step adjustments over the course of the time served. Figuring how much that should be wouldn't be that difficult. Everyone shares from the benefits of public schooling, just like they benefit from public roads. Everyone should pay. Another option to raise teacher salaries would be to free them from state and federal taxation. Although that wouldn't be a substantial wage increase for the majority of teachers.

It's clear that we under tax the wealth in this nation and at the same time we over spend and waste a tremendous amount of the tax dollars we have. More responsible spending coupled with a slight increase of taxes on corporations, businesses, and individuals is reasonable. Any increase should be structured just as we currently have, by increasing wealth. We just need to lessen the exemptions and loopholes on the wealthiest sector.
Click to expand...

I know young people in AZ who entered the schools as teachers and promptly quit.

It was the kids and the conditions.

You can't pay someone enough to like a job they don't.
 
Last edited:
bomberfox said:
12 an hour? Sheesh i make a bit more than that in manufacturing doing less work.
Click to expand...

We'd need a date on the data that was presented.

Also, you need to figure in a nine/ten month work year.

It still ain't great.

Never has been.

I'd prefer we pay more and try to make the job more enjoyable.

Parents attitudes these days suck.
 
If just throwing money at education made for better results, then every kid in the Los Angeles Unified School District would after high school be candidates for Princeton, Harvard, MIT, and Cal Tech. Throwing more money at education mainly ends up going to administration and teachers union pension, but not in any better test results.

  • 50% of the money would go to hiring and raising the salaries of teachers and other certified employees, such as counselors and nurses.
  • 25% would go to hiring and increasing the salaries of student support staff, including classroom aides and bus drivers.
  • 12% would go to career and technical education programs.
  • 10% would go to programs dedicated to retaining and mentoring teachers.
  • 3% would go to scholarships for the Arizona Teachers Academy, which waives college tuition for teachers-in-training who commit to work in Arizona schools after graduation.
How does any of this make for better educated kids? This bill is basically admitting that teachers to a lousy job becuase they really don't care about the qualiity of their effort to teach kids, as much as they care about their paychecks. Then why did they get into teaching in the first place I wonder?
 
The hate the Republican base has for the working people and the love they have for millionaires and billionaires is amazing...

Talk about cutting their own throats...
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Sounds like New York.... Tax, tax, tax.

California people flocking to Arizona have ruined the state.
Click to expand...
Careful what you wish for, huh?

Well to do republicans will seek low tax states.

So it isn’t a surprise. It is funny though.
 
Luther said:
Growing Hispanics who tend to be very liberal/socialistic on Education and Healthcare
Click to expand...
They are promised free stuff at the expense of other taxpayers. Just like Blacks, it is how the left assures they can get their votes.

A 3.5% education surtax on individual salaries over 250K per year is HUGE. 250 k per year is not exactly the income of a billionaire. Here in California it pretty much is what a person with a college education and good job ought to expect to make who has worked hard to be successful, so why punish that? Forcing your neighbor to pay upward of more than $8700 dollars MORE than you pay for public education is evil socialist greed.

If teachers are not happy with what they get paid then they should quit and find jobs which pay more. Taxpayer funded public education is as bad as it is because there is not enough free market competition in elementary and high school education. My neighbor who is high school math teacher and about as dumb as a rock makes about $150 k per year, and he is so stupid he doesn't even know how to change a tire on his car. What kind of results is he getting with his students I wonder--- on my taxpayer dime?
 
Court Jester said:
They are promised free stuff at the expense of other taxpayers. Just like Blacks, it is how the left assures they can get their votes.

A 3.5% education surtax on individual salaries over 250K per year is HUGE. 250 k per year is not exactly the income of a billionaire. Here in California it pretty much is what a person with a college education and good job ought to expect to make who has worked hard to be successful, so why punish that? Forcing your neighbor to pay upward of more than $8700 dollars MORE than you pay for public education is evil socialist greed.

If teachers are not happy with what they get paid then they should quit and find jobs which pay more. Taxpayer funded public education is as bad as it is because there is not enough free market competition in elementary and high school education. My neighbor who is high school math teacher and about as dumb as a rock makes about $150 k per year, and he is so stupid he doesn't even know how to change a tire on his car. What kind of results is he getting with his students I wonder--- on my taxpayer dime?
Click to expand...

I don’t think you understand how (progressive) income tax bracket rates work. The new “surtax” applies only to any income above $250K/year for individuals and $500K/year for couples. You are assuming that someone making (exactly) $250K/year would be taxed an additional 3.5% ($8,750) on their entire income when they would, in fact, pay no “surtax” since they have $0 income above $250K/year. See post #38.
 
Republicans complain about education.

News at eleven.
 
I voted no on prop 208.
 
HikerGuy83 said:
For what ?

Education isn't money. But somehow we seem to think throwing more money at education assuages our failing our kids at more fundamental levels.

I guess that is something I am not proud of.
Click to expand...
If you were a good teacher, would you pick the place that's hot as hell for less money, or the place with higher pay that you didn't have to use oven mitts to touch your steering wheel in the summer?

Our teachers are leaving our state. We don't have enough teachers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom