Are you a liberal?

[Perotista]

I am a bit to the right of the below, mostly in the center.

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Depends on the issue, left or right. Some might call me a classical liberal, not to be confused with liberals today or even a traditional conservative. Certainly not a religious, social, neo or whatever other types there are. I find myself supporting the Democrats sometimes, Republicans other times and many times not giving an owl's hoot about the issue or policy. There are times I'm left and times I'm right. But outside of not giving a coyote's howl on some issues, I certainly wouldn't consider myself a moderate or centrist or whatever other name one comes up with.

I like swing voter, one who likes divided government as I don't trust government in full control of one party. Hence in 2022 I'm more apt to vote Republican whereas during Trump, I was voting Democratic. I don't trust either major party or congress. I believe with both parties super, mega, ultra-high partisanship where Republicans automatically oppose anything Democratic and the democrats automatically opposing anything and everything Republican, no thought to the merits of the proposal, only who proposed it. That our two major parties are leading this country down the road to destruction with their party first attitude. I hate political correctness or this thing called woke. I'm a firm believer in that old adage, "I may not agree with or like what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it.

I am whatever that makes me.

 

[ecofarm]

... other times and many times not giving an owl's hoot about the issue or policy...

But outside of not giving a coyote's howl on some issues,

I think it's strange to believe issues are unrelated. To not see the fabric of philosophy.

 

[Perotista]

I think it's strange to believe issues are unrelated. To not see the fabric of philosophy.

Not sure what you're getting at. There's certain issues like the 2nd amendment and crime, police, I come down on the GOP side. Abortion, gay marriage on the democratic side, etc. I don't pass either major party's litmus test.

 

[ecofarm]

Not sure what you're getting at. There's certain issues like the 2nd amendment and crime, police, I come down on the GOP side. Abortion, gay marriage on the democratic side, etc. I don't pass either major party's litmus test.

I see your claim that I address, previously, with quotes, as a simple claim: "There are some issues for which I apologize as opposed to support."

That's it. I don't believe for one minute that you're ignorant of the fabric of philosophy. I don't believe for one minute there are issues in which you see no philosophical debate. I don't believe for one minute that you have blinders on that prevent you from seeing the intricacies and implications of any policy or position. I believe you apologize for some things by pretending they don't matter.

That's what everyone should see.

 

[Perotista]

I see your claim that I address, previously, with quotes, as a simple claim: "There are some issues for which I apologize as opposed to support."

That's it. I don't believe for one minute that you're ignorant of the fabric of philosophy. I don't believe for one minute there are issues in which you see no philosophical debate. I don't believe for one minute that you have blinders on that prevent you from seeing the intricacies and implications of any policy or position. I believe you apologize for some things by pretending they don't matter.

That's what everyone should see.

There's a lot of things I don't give an owl's hoot about. They're totally irrelevant to me. I do comment on a lot of things that effect elections or how I see Americans as a whole taking sides. Now I don't worry about things I can't control or help. I tend to judge political issues and candidates on what I determine is best for America, not by political party or a political party's stance. Are they up for the job or not.

Do I apologize for any issue or candidate I supported, no. Once the election is over, it's all behind me. I made my decision at the time based on what was going on at that time, not today nor tomorrow.

 

[ecofarm]

There's a lot of things I don't give an owl's hoot about. They're totally irrelevant to me.

I don't believe that. I believe you're apologizing for what you find untenable.

When I use "apologize", I refer to "apologism".

 

[Vadinho]

The problem here is many conflate American Liberal with Classic Liberal. Those two are opposites.

Actually, none of us do, the only ones who bring up classical definitions (mainly from the 1800s) are people who want to call modern liberals something else in a bizarre notion that any of us gives a damn what a liberal was called in 1890.

 

[aociswundumho]

Actually, none of us do, the only ones who bring up classical definitions (mainly from the 1800s) are people who want to call modern liberals something else in a bizarre notion that any of us gives a damn what a liberal was called in 1890.

You're wrong. The entire world defines liberal as classic liberal. Only in America does liberal mean filthy leftist.

 

[Vadinho]

You're wrong. The entire world defines liberal as classic liberal. Only in America does liberal mean filthy leftist.

I tell you what, the only people who label Democrats as liberals are conservatives and libertarians. I never considered myself a liberal at all until I was called that over and over again. So what the hell, I call myself that just to amuse myself. As for your views on the worlds definitions of liberal, wrong. No one uses that quaint definition from the 1800s but libertarians and wannabe Fox pundits.

 

[BitterPill]

You're wrong. The entire world defines liberal as classic liberal. Only in America does liberal mean filthy leftist.

That's why I prefer libtard for Libertarians' sake.

 

[Nickyjo]

The cons today use the term liberal and communist interchangeably because they are brainwashed morons.

Not really. Communist is so 1950s. Haven’t you noticed? The boogeyman term of art these days is socialist.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Not really. Communist is so 1950s. Haven’t you noticed? The boogeyman term of art these days is socialist.

It is still the same red-baiting...only on steroids this time around.

 

[Nickyjo]

That's why I prefer libtard for Libertarians' sake.

So what part of the libtard/filthy leftist agenda do you object to? It started with TR and trust busting, and stretched through the ACA. Stay away from our European allies’ countries, by the way. Swarming with even filthier leftists and libtards.

 

[BitterPill]

It is still the same red-baiting...only on steroids this time around.

Gosh... I really miss the original McCarthy though the current one is OK.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Not really. Communist is so 1950s. Haven’t you noticed? The boogeyman term of art these days is socialist.

But they mean communist, Marxist scum.

 

[BitterPill]

So what part of the libtard/filthy leftist agenda do you object to? It started with TR and trust busting, and stretched through the ACA. Stay away from our European allies’ countries, by the way. Swarming with even filthier leftists and libtards.

Remember, the Italians assisted in stealing the election and the Pope, who was recently arrested, is involved, so Trump was correct to turn his back on our erstwhile libtard allies.

 

[BitterPill]

But they mean communist, Marxist scum.

Pedophiles, too, and cannibals.

QAnon and the MAGAsphere are all about protecting our children.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Pedophiles, too, and cannibals.

QAnon and the MAGAsphere are all about protecting our children.

Same guys who want to keep government out of their Medicare.

 

[Peter King]

No, even though a lot of people will call me a liberal. I am a social democrat and there is a big difference between liberalism and social democracy.

 

[it's just me]

I'm no Liberal. I have a mind and can think critically. I am able-bodied and I expect to provide for myself and my family and not live off a government subsidy. And because I believe it is MY job to provide for myself and my family I believe it is my every right to keep 90%+ of my income vs. having it confiscated by an immoral government.

An objectivist.

 

[george48]

Classic liberalism is archaic. Kind of like today's conservatives.

I like your takes...


I would probably most identfy with Bill Maher ...

Or early 2000s liberalism

 

[Nickyjo]

I'm no Liberal. I have a mind and can think critically. I am able-bodied and I expect to provide for myself and my family and not live off a government subsidy. And because I believe it is MY job to provide for myself and my family I believe it is my every right to keep 90%+ of my income vs. having it confiscated by an immoral government.

Dollars to donuts you are subsidized in some way by our immoral government. We all are. My subsidies are Social Security, Medicare, the Post Office, mortgage interest deductions, and the interstate. My wife the ACA with its mandate to cover pre-existing conditions, My son’s public education and student loans. What are yours?

 

[The Baron]

Dollars to donuts you are subsidized in some way by our immoral government. We all are. My subsidies are Social Security, Medicare, the Post Office, mortgage interest deductions, and the interstate. My wife the ACA with its mandate to cover pre-existing conditions, My son’s public education and student loans. What are yours?

As I pay more than 50% of my earnings in taxes I fail to see how I'm being subsadized by any means.

 

[Nickyjo]

As I pay more than 50% of my earnings in taxes I fail to see how I'm being subsadized by any means.

Do you or have you deducted mortgage interest? If so, you like I did, benefitted from a subsidy other Americans, renters, don’t get. Why should I get that? I also was able to deduct mortgage interest on a second home I owned, which seems ridiculous. I get to deduct depreciation on that home as if it were a tractor, when it’s value has quadrupled. I pay a half a dollar and someone takes a letter across the country for me. I use the internet, which I believe taxes paid to set up. I have my face deep in the government trough, as I suspect you get some sustenance there as well.

Will you collect only what you put into Social Security, plus interest, and return the rest? If your medical bills when old exceed the amount you paid into Medicare, will you refuse the benefits? If you want to pay a lower percentage in taxes, make less money. Personally, I’d prefer to be in the highest tax bracket myself, wouldn’t you?

Feel free to frolic in Ayn Rand’s strange world. I prefer John Donne’s. “No man is an island” and all that.

 

[The Baron]

Do you or have you deducted mortgage interest? If so, you like I did, benefitted from a subsidy other Americans, renters, don’t get.

Who cares? It was MY money that I was "deducting".

Why should I get that?

Because it's YOUR money.

I also was able to deduct mortgage interest on a second home I owned, which seems ridiculous.

Why in the cornbread-hell is keeping more of YOUR money "ridiculous"?

I get to deduct depreciation on that home as if it were a tractor, when it’s value has quadrupled.

That's awesome! You get to keep more of YOUR money.

I pay a half a dollar and someone takes a letter across the country for me.

Which is stupid. E-mail has made the post-office obsolete.

I use the internet, which I believe taxes paid to set up.

You mean taxpayer money paid for when the Defense Department created it and then went commercial.

I have my face deep in the government trough...

Stop and start doing for yourself. This nation is overflowing with parasites and generational welfare brood-mares.

as I suspect you get some sustenance there as well.

Whatever I'm "getting" is more than offset by the amount I pay in taxes. This is a decidedly one-sided relationship I have with the government and I'm getting raped.

Will you collect only what you put into Social Security, plus interest, and return the rest?

I suspect I'll never fully reclaim what it's cost me. SS is a loser program. Americans would be far better off investing their own money. The payoff would be greater and they would be able to pass that money along to their children when they die.

If your medical bills when old exceed the amount you paid into Medicare, will you refuse the benefits?

Why refuse benefits I've more than paid for? How about I keep my money then the problem of medical benefits are "mine" and not the governments who can do nothing well (military excluded).

If you want to pay a lower percentage in taxes, make less money.

Arguably one of the most breathtakingly stupid things I've ever read on this site.

You're statement seems to suggest that my money belongs to the government first and not me. And yet I was the one who earned that money...not the government. They don't earn anything.

Personally, I’d prefer to be in the highest tax bracket myself, wouldn’t you?

Oh, HELL NO! But if you wish you are able to pay more into the system.

It's YOUR money.

Do with it what you like.