Are Widening Income Gaps a Problem in this Country?

[ttwtt78640]

Undoubtedly, yes. Is that our goal here? To downgrade our middle class and poor to third world levels and tell them hey, could be worse as the donor class continues to redistribute societal wealth? Not going to be able to sell that forever to folks who can't afford healthcare or to educate their children. But I guess that's what militarized police depts and corporate for profit prisons are for.

Our goal is to have (most) folks work to support themselves and their dependents and we have a huge income redistribution system (aka the "safety net") in place to ensure that those that "fall through the cracks" are far, far above your "third world status".

What, exactly, is it that you propose to "even things out" that does not amount to simply rewarding those that elect to live on the dole feeling entitled to permanent public assistance? I would go so far as to give every US citizen, upon their 18th birthday, a one time benefit of $100K to use as they see fit and it would cost less than we now spend on the "safety net". Of course, that will never happen because we know that many folks "need" far more than that and even more folks don't need any help at all.

What that "safety net" does is to allow employers to pay lower wages since it creates a (fairly large) pool of folks that flat out don't care what they earn (via a paycheck) since they are rewarded handsomely via the myriad of "safety net" programs which make a small paycheck go a whole lot further.

Using SNAP as an example: for every $1 of additional income earned that worker loses $.24 in SNAP benefits. That means one working for a nominal $8/hr nets less than $6/hr (below the federal MW) for each additional hour worked. That is why many work only 20 hours/week "on the books" (meeting the SNAP work requirement) and use that additional free time to earn "off the books" income. One can easily make more than $8/hr selling bottled water on a street corner, mowing grass, painting, cleaning homes or doing any number of "chores" for cash.

Medicaid is another example of encouraging "safety net" dependence - Medicaid has no premiums, deductibles or co-pays so why would anyone want to earn barely "too much" (on the books) to start having premiums. deductibles and co-pays to deal with?

 

[Fenton Lum]

Um, you invest with corps that do, so you are profiting from it.

Either incredibly naive, or dishonest.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Our goal is to have (most) folks work to support themselves and their dependents and we have a huge income redistribution system (aka the "safety net") in place to ensure that those that "fall through the cracks" are far, far above your "third world status".

What, exactly, is it that you propose to "even things out" that does not amount to simply rewarding those that elect to live on the dole feeling entitled to permanent public assistance? I would go so far as to give every US citizen, upon their 18th birthday, a one time benefit of $100K to use as they see fit and it would cost less than we now spend on the "safety net". Of course, that will never happen because we know that many folks "need" far more than that and even more folks don't need any help at all.

What that "safety net" does is to allow employers to pay lower wages since it creates a (fairly large) pool of folks that flat out don't care what they earn (via a paycheck) since they are rewarded handsomely via the myriad of "safety net" programs that make that small paycheck go a whole lot further. Using SNAP as an example: for every $1 of additional income that worker loses $.24 in SANP benefits. That means one working for a nominal $8/hr nets less than $6/hr (below the federal MW) for each additional hour worked. That is why many work only 20 hours/week "on the books" (meeting the SNAP work requirement) and use that free time to earn "off the books" income. One can easily make more than $8/hr selling bottled water on a street corner, mowing grass, painting, cleaning homes or doing any number of "chores" for cash.

Medicaid is another example of encouraging "safety net" dependence - Medicaid has no premiums, deductibles or co-pays so why would anyone want to earn barely "too much" (on the books) to start having premiums. deductibles and co-pays to deal with?

No one ever has an issue with Wall Street's, the "job creator" class', or corporate safety nets.

 

[TurtleDude]

Um, you invest with corps that do, so you are profiting from it.

Profit from what-what are you complaining about now?

 

[TurtleDude]

No one ever has an issue with Wall Street's, the "job creator" class', or corporate safety nets.

that's a lie because your constant complaint about it shows YOU have an issue with it

 

[Fenton Lum]

Either incredibly naive, or dishonest.

Profit from what-what are you complaining about now?

Guess I'll go with dishonest.

 

[Fenton Lum]

that's a lie because your constant complaint about it shows YOU have an issue with it

Not your ilk, heh?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

What that "safety net" does is to allow employers to pay lower wages since it creates a (fairly large) pool of folks that flat out don't care what they earn (via a paycheck) since they are rewarded handsomely via the myriad of "safety net" programs that make that small paycheck go a whole lot further.Using SNAP as an example: for every $1 of additional income earned that worker loses $.24 in SANP benefits. That means one working for a nominal $8/hr nets less than $6/hr (below the federal MW) for each additional hour worked. That is why many work only 20 hours/week "on the books" (meeting the SNAP work requirement) and use that additional free time to earn "off the books" income. One can easily make more than $8/hr selling bottled water on a street corner, mowing grass, painting, cleaning homes or doing any number of "chores" for cash.

Um, I would hardly call receiving less than $1.75 for groceries per meal..."handsomely rewarded".

 

[Media_Truth]

lots of gun owners are anti gun for others or hate the NRA because they labor under the delusion that Democrat politicians won't ban "their guns"

Gee, let's turn this into another gun discussion.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Profit from what-what are you complaining about now?

For a guy claiming to have an Ivy League degree, who becomes befuddled when it is pointed out that the corporations he derives profits from ARE receiving all sorts of government breaks and benefits...well, it just get rather sad.

 

[ttwtt78640]

"To give you a sense of the magnitude, men in the bottom 1 percent have life expectancy comparable to the average life expectancy in Pakistan or Sudan."

Life Expectancy Study: It's Not Just What You Make, It's Where You Live : The Two-Way : NPR

Is your goal to have the poor live longer to "enjoy" living in poverty for more years?

That linked article noted a vast (regional?) difference in the the life expectancy of the poor (even within the US) so, perhaps, much more than income is involved.

 

[Media_Truth]

more dishonesty, my comment never said anything about the government other than I am not dependent on it

I guess you don't drive on the roads. I guess you don't ever use the USPS. Don't ever cross a bridge. If we're invaded, I guess you don't need our military for defense. You'll pull out your pop-gun and battle the tanks. You don't need clean air, clean water...

 

[ttwtt78640]

No one ever has an issue with Wall Street's, the "job creator" class', or corporate safety nets.

WTF? Are we now talking about tax reform? Your "reply with quote" is simply deflection so... HAND.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Is your goal to have the poor live longer to "enjoy" living in poverty for more years?

It is tough to get out of poverty...if you are dead. Huurrrrr durr.

That linked article noted a vast (regional?) difference in the the life expectancy of the poor (even within the US) so, perhaps, much more than income is involved.

Um, income is the main driver of life expectancy, maybe you ought to read the article....and those linked to it

 

[Fenton Lum]

WTF? Are we now talking about tax reform? Your "reply with quote" is simply deflection so... HAND.

What did the socialist Wall Street bailouts have to do with tax reform?

 

[Fenton Lum]

I guess you don't drive on the roads. I guess you don't ever use the USPS. Don't ever cross a bridge. If we're invaded, I guess you don't need our military for defense. You'll pull out your pop-gun and battle the tanks. You don't need clean air, clean water...

Yup, he's got guns, all he needs, why, he doesn't even benefit from his military's 7 bogus endless wars of occupuation. And he is totally self educated, never got a cheap meal at school, never got a cheaper pooled insurance rate and always paid full price for his pharmaceuticals and healthcare. Hell, the doctor didn't even smack his ass when he was born, did that first breath all on his own. Come to think of it, his momma didnt' even push.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Um, I would hardly call receiving less than $1.75 for groceries per meal..."handsomely rewarded".

I would hardly call SNAP the sum total of the "safety net" benefit package. Medicaid alone costs about $9K/year for each patient covered - that is quite a perk for working 20 hours per week (if even that is required) slaving away at a McJob.

 

[Kushinator]

Same old story-you try to prove-with evidence that is not relevant-that socialism and income redistribution is "good".

I have shown that since capital income growth was given tax preference, inequality began to rise as total factor growth has stalled... on multiple occasions in multiple threads. The growth of wealth in this country for the past 3+ decades has eclipsed the tax burden felt by the wealthy many times over. It's akin to complaining your engine doesn't run without oil or a cooling system.

You ignore the rights of someone who earned money by pretending their rights to their own property shouldn't figure into your communitarian calculations.

There is no discussion on the matter. The government has a right to tax people and spend money. That you disagree doesn't equate to a violation of property rights. This has already been decided in the courts... and no amount of whining and serial repeating changes this fact.

Its the typical leftwing attitude that since you pretend you know what is better for others, the views of others as to their own property should be ignored

Once again, you put on full display that you cannot address the topic, and instead choose to discuss me instead.

:yawn:

 

[ttwtt78640]

What did the socialist Wall Street bailouts have to do with tax reform?

What did they have to do with poverty? Did those making under $30K/year pay for them?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I would hardly call SNAP the sum total of the "safety net" benefit package. Medicaid alone costs about $9K/year for each patient covered - that is quite a perk for working 20 hours per week (if even that is required) slaving away at a McJob.

It costs $9K for ABW's? Show it. Yer tossing around a lot of numbers without any documenting...as per usual. I suspect this is some average that includes the very old and very sick, not a sum the MW workers are using.

 

[Fenton Lum]

What did they have to do with poverty? Did those making under $30K/year pay for them?

The point is that, and I think you're fully aware of this, when we talk about redistribution and handouts, we mean the poor, "we the people". We subsidize the well off all over the place and no one minds.

 

[joG]

Undoubtedly, yes. Is that our goal here? To downgrade our middle class and poor to third world levels and tell them hey, could be worse as the donor class continues to redistribute societal wealth? Not going to be able to sell that forever to folks who can't afford healthcare or to educate their children. But I guess that's what militarized police depts and corporate for profit prisons are for.

I often wonder, what goes through people's heads. Have you ever thought about poverty? I mean to the extent of looking at the comparative statistics for different oecd countries? It is true that the US could and should innovate and improve itself. But socialist propaganda falsehoods are not the reason to do so. The country is probably too reliant on social programmes and errs more with regard to structures and overspending.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It costs $9K for ABW's? Show it. Yer tossing around a lot of numbers without any documenting...as per usual. I suspect this is some average that includes the very old and very sick, not a sum the MW workers are using.

A MW worker is unlikely (in many states) to qualify for Medicaid unless they are also elderly or have minor dependents. The fact remains that Medicaid has no premiums, deductibles or co-pays which is ridiculous.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I would hardly call SNAP the sum total of the "safety net" benefit package. Medicaid alone costs about $9K/year for each patient covered - that is quite a perk for working 20 hours per week (if even that is required) slaving away at a McJob.

We are THE only advanced post industrial nation on the planet, of which we are by far the wealthiest, that cannot seem to manage to figure out how to invest in our own society, and a healthy, educated population. How that is deemed a globally competative strategy is beyond me. But we don't need to do we now. First the donor "job creator" class decided they no longer required the american population for production, then the decided they no longer required the american population for consumption.

 

[Fenton Lum]

A MW worker is unlikely (in many states) to qualify for Medicaid unless they are also elderly or have minor dependents. The fact remains that Medicaid has no premiums, deductibles or co-pays which is ridiculous.

It works just fine though, doesn't it, we just need that Calvinist punishment of sins component. Damn that ability to negotiate costs.