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Are we unfair to our politicians?

Are we unfair to our politicians?


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radcen

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Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?
 

OrphanSlug

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No. It is part of the deal, public office where you make decisions impacting the lives of many means as a consequence dealing with the response.
 

Fiddytree

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Absolutely. People's expectations have become utterly ridiculous.
 

Hawkeye10

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We do not value public service, we have not for a very long time, it has been in decline at least since the late 60's. THis is the prime reason we get crap.
 

Paleocon

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Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?

The problem is, that we are expecting good leadership out of democratically elected officials. Democracy as a form of government promotes vicious leaders.
 

Helix

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Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?

i think that we have a right to expect a lot, especially since they :

1. divide us tribally via political teams instead of the obvious socioeconomic divide that is generally the root issue.

2. gerrymander themselves into office so that incumbency becomes a massive power. (this is the dictionary definition of conflict of interest, IMO.)

3. limit our choices to two candidates in almost every race.

4. live lives of nobility and celebrity that we started Animal Farm here in part to counteract, because we had grown a real distaste for it. suffice it to say, if they had to work every day of the year for the US mean salary / benefits / vacation package, i'd speculate that they would be more than a little put out.

now i'm not entirely anti-politician. however, i'm fairly annoyed at this debacle of an election, and it definitely picks at spots that are already well scratched and sore. forgive me if i vent.
 

Redress

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i think that we have a right to expect a lot, especially since they :

1. divide us tribally via political teams instead of the obvious socioeconomic divide that is generally the root issue.

2. gerrymander themselves into office so that incumbency becomes a massive power. (this is the dictionary definition of conflict of interest, IMO.)

3. limit our choices to two candidates in almost every race.

4. live lives of nobility and celebrity that we started Animal Farm here in part to counteract, because we had grown a real distaste for it. suffice it to say, if they had to work every day of the year for the US mean salary / benefits / vacation package, i'd speculate that they would be more than a little put out.

now i'm not entirely anti-politician. however, i'm fairly annoyed at this debacle of an election, and it definitely picks at spots that are already well scratched and sore. forgive me if i vent.

This is a good example actually, some one blaming politicians for things which are their own fault. Politicians do not divide us, we do. Politicians do not limit our choices, we do. And so on. But it is so much easier to blame others for our own failings.
 

a351

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Yes. Angry know-nothingness is far easier than grappling with the nuts and bolts of how things actually work.

*See Donald Trump, Talk Radio, OWS etc..*
 

Fiddytree

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This is a good example actually, some one blaming politicians for things which are their own fault. Politicians do not divide us, we do. Politicians do not limit our choices, we do. And so on. But it is so much easier to blame others for our own failings.

Or blame politicians for not getting "work done," when we:
1) Elect representatives through conflicting "mandates" (i.e. the President is elected on X grouping of principles, House majorities on Y group of principles, Senate majorities bumped on Z grouping of principles).
2) Generally prefer that the opposition give into our demands to achieve the oft-valued "compromise"
3) Become wholly upset at politicians for creating a compromise which weakens at least one group's position (but probably everyone's position)
4) Become so upset at politicians for creating a compromise that we challenge them in a primary to take a harder stance-leading to their ouster.
5) Have a group of politicians who, naturally, respond to the demand that got them into office in the first place, by refusing to compromise.


Which eventually leads us to conclude, once again, without any sense of irony, that:

Washington's broken and if they only listened to "us" we'd get stuff done.
 
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Helix

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This is a good example actually, some one blaming politicians for things which are their own fault. Politicians do not divide us, we do. Politicians do not limit our choices, we do. And so on. But it is so much easier to blame others for our own failings.

i don't deny that the electorate shares the blame for accepting the rigged game and for letting our innate tribalism get the better of us. we made ourselves vulnerable to those with the means to manipulate, and manipulate, they certainly have.
 

Redress

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i don't deny that the electorate shares the blame for accepting the rigged game and for letting our innate tribalism get the better of us. we made ourselves vulnerable to those with the means to manipulate, and manipulate, they certainly have.

We rig the game, as much as it is rigged. Do you know why people do not vote for, say, libertarians? Because they prefer some one else. Stop blaming others. We pick our politicians.
 

Helix

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We rig the game, as much as it is rigged. Do you know why people do not vote for, say, libertarians? Because they prefer some one else. Stop blaming others. We pick our politicians.

from a pool of two choices. i'd agree with you if it was more about the politician's platform and less about the party. candidates should have run on their platform, not on their tribe.
 

Redress

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from a pool of two choices. i'd agree with you if it was more about the politician's platform and less about the party. candidates should have run on their platform, not on their tribe.

If you think there are only two choices, you might want to actually go vote and look at the ballot. FFS, literally dozens actually ran for the two major party nomination.
 

Helix

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If you think there are only two choices, you might want to actually go vote and look at the ballot. FFS, literally dozens actually ran for the two major party nomination.

there are almost always two choices on election day. that isn't enough to encompass the American political spectrum. as for your point about the nomination, i haven't yet been given a chance to vote, and there are now only two choices in that election, too. political parties do everything they can to eliminate choice, and if they were banned tomorrow, i'd dance a jig.
 

Hawkeye10

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If you think there are only two choices, you might want to actually go vote and look at the ballot. FFS, literally dozens actually ran for the two major party nomination.

And the uniform anti Trump narrative from all of the organs of the establishment is what you are going to see every single time someone who does not conform to the script makes a serious threat to actually win.

As Carlin pointed out we are given the illusion of choice, not choice.
 

Redress

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there are almost always two choices on election day. that isn't enough to encompass the American political spectrum. as for your point about the nomination, i haven't yet been given a chance to vote, and there are now only two choices in that election, too. political parties do everything they can to eliminate choice, and if they were banned tomorrow, i'd dance a jig.

Which party would you vote for in the primary. Depending on state, there could be as many as 6 candidates if you are a democrat, 3 if you are a republican. 26 candidates where on the ballot of at least one state for president in November 2012. You might want to educate yourself on the process before you start to criticize it.
 

Helix

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Which party would you vote for in the primary. Depending on state, there could be as many as 6 candidates if you are a democrat, 3 if you are a republican. 26 candidates where on the ballot of at least one state for president in November 2012. You might want to educate yourself on the process before you start to criticize it.

i am unable to vote in the primary until May, which means that my vote doesn't count in nine primaries out of ten. most of the candidates have already dropped out by that point.

as for educating myself, i certainly have. if i could wave a wand tomorrow and ban political parties outright, i would do so.
 

Redress

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i am unable to vote in the primary until May, which means that my vote doesn't count in nine primaries out of ten. most of the candidates have already dropped out by that point.

as for educating myself, i certainly have. if i could wave a wand tomorrow and ban political parties outright, i would do so.

So your magic solution for feeling disempowered is to limit the rights of others to associate freely. Well done, taking rights away from others always makes you feel better...
 

Helix

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So your magic solution for feeling disempowered is to limit the rights of others to associate freely. Well done, taking rights away from others always makes you feel better...

no, one of my "magic" solutions is to increase competition by not letting politicians draw their own districts. eliminating teams in favor of candidates sounds like a great first step in that direction.
 

NoC_T

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Lowlives are hated. Since virtually all of them are corrupt, self-serving scum, anything less than torturing them to death is a kindness.
 

Kal'Stang

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Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?

I ask no more of a politician than I ask of myself. I could forgive any politician for just about anything on a personal level if they were simply HONEST with the public and meant well. Do you know of any politician that meets that very simple criteria? I don't. So no, we're not "unfair" to our politicians. At least I'm not. They deserve every bit of scorn they receive.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?

Not even slightly.

There are a very small number of politicians who I do think are legitimately interested in serving the people. I give them their dues whenever they deserve them. I also recognize that their ability to affect change is very limited by the fact that probably 98% of the rest of politicians are not on their side, and because of that the system has been slowly altered in order to make their way more difficult. And that is not their fault. Good on them for going into the profession when they damn well knew it would be pushing a boulder up a mountain.

But the other 98%?

They've earned it. In fact, they get LESS criticism than they deserve. They deserve to be thrown out of office all together, en masse, a la Iceland after the financial crash. They deserve to experience the people reclaiming the power they've stolen for themselves. Many of them deserve to be in jail.

If anything, the criticism of them is far too timid.
 

Frank Apisa

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Yeah, we are.

And not just a little bit.

We pretty much call them the scum of the Earth...and then wonder why they don't think more of us in return.

They are humans...essentially doing a job. It is one of the most onerous jobs imaginable...and damn near everything they do will be despised by half the population.

We fault them for thinking about themselves, their families, and their careers before thinking of the the rest of humanity...A TRAIT THEY SHARE WITH JUST ABOUT EVERY HUMAN ON THE PLANET.



Oh, yeah. I voted that we do.
 

JC Callender

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No, we're not unfair. If we were, would they go through the terrible personal attacks and constant asking of favors to become one? Most of them look healthy, happy, rich, and stress free. A real politician, or rather statesman, who deserves the utmost respect is Abe Lincolln. Look at the before and after pics of him, just before he became president and in 1965. That's a man who served his country. Most of these politicians nowadays are simply ambitious opportunists.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?

I chose the third option, meaning "other."
Sometimes we are, bringing up asinine **** that doesn't matter.

Other times, especially when they set themselves up as paragons of virtue, I think it's totally fair.
 
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