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Are we unfair to our politicians?

Are we unfair to our politicians?


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More coming tomorrow! :mrgreen: :sun It's 71 and sunny here today. And I'm definitely getting a tan, so you may be too.

Btw, I found these baby rabbits today on my job:

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And this hawk in our parking garage the other day, stuck temporarily in the stairwell:

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Wow! Great pictures! :thumbs: They must know you wouldn't hurt them - how young do you think they are? What job are you doing - landscaping of some sort?
 
Wow! Great pictures! :thumbs: They must know you wouldn't hurt them - how young do you think they are? What job are you doing - landscaping of some sort?

Yes, a landscaping job. They were hiding under a boxwood, and then another one was snuggling with some leaves about 5 feet away...there were 3 in all. I'm assuming they were born within the past few days because they were shaking and their eyes were mostly shut and they didn't seem to have a great idea of what was going on. Maybe the mom was out hunting for food for them, although I'm not sure what's available this time of year in Michigan for them, hence the shredded carrots that my customer brought out. We put them back under the boxwood with a bunch of leaves and the carrots and one of them was somewhat mobile, so I'm assuming they'll be okay. The hawk sits in the parking garage and eats the pigeons. It's not rare to see it perched on the roof of an SUV surrounded by pigeon feathers. It was funny because the pigeons were much more active than usual when the hawk was stuck in the stairwell, as if they knew it. :lol:
 
Follow up on the weather you sent my way last evening. . . it's 71 degrees right now, heading to 75 degrees, which the NWS says "will feel like 77 degrees!" JC, you can send temps like that anytime you feel like it! :kissy: I just brought the little dogs indoors, and maybe it's wishful thinking, but I swear I'm starting to get a tan - in mid-April in NE Ohio? Unheard of..... :mrgreen: ... :happy:

My wife mentioned my tan yesterday. But I've been on the golf course just about every day for the last two weeks. Face is already full tan; arm also...but the legs are not yet ready for shorts in public. The afternoons on the deck will take care of that in short order.

Glad so many people are having great weather. Here in Jersey, we finally turned the corner.
 
Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?

Just visit your local state representative at the state capital. He will most likely give you the nickel tour. If a state representative is that difficult, multiply that by 50 for a Congressman. It's a tough job. But still, we should try for the best.
 
Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?

Yes. Too many people have delusional expectations of their representatives and use them as a white board which they can project all of their anger onto.
 
Just visit your local state representative at the state capital. He will most likely give you the nickel tour. If a state representative is that difficult, multiply that by 50 for a Congressman. It's a tough job. But still, we should try for the best.
Yes. Too many people have delusional expectations of their representatives and use them as a white board which they can project all of their anger onto.
Well over 20 years ago I took a day off and attended a town hall meeting hosted by my state rep. He was of the opposite party as me, but I was interested in the process.

Long story short, I came away feeling sorry for the guy. According to the audience, which was well-mixed politically, everything was his fault (and I mean everything), and one guy even berated him for not remembering a letter he wrote 8 months prior that dealt with some really small issue that really wasn't his department to begin with. Geez, people, be at least somewhat reasonable.
 
We choose those two people (with an unfortunate amount of influence by the Parties).

a choice artificially limited to two gerrymandered teams isn't much of a choice.
 
a choice artificially limited to two gerrymandered teams isn't much of a choice.

Then we need to get rid of the two teams or start supporting alternatives. But sitting on our collective butts and whining about the broken system isn't ever going to change anything.
 
We currently have a system that is very broken and for most people the answer is do more of what got here in the first place. We need change and we are the only ones who can bring about that change.

You wrote: "Our elected representatives should reflect the best in our society and it's HARD to find one that even reflects the norm... We need to raise the standards for our politicians, not accept the low standards that have become the norm."

I asked you, "How do we do that...and what reflects the best in our society?"

Still waiting for an answer that does actually sounds like a reasonable way to do it. I'm not trying to be insulting...but your answer so far sounds like, "We just hope it happens."
 
Countries rise and fall.

A number of historical advantages have ceased to exist for the United States. The easy economic growth of the post World War II era cannot be restored. The United States has probably entered a period of irreversible decline.

We expect too much from politicians. If they do not promise the impossible we do not vote for them. When they do not give us the impossible we turn on them.

Since Bill Clinton left office median income adjusted for inflation has declined. Even in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) incomes have been flat since 2000.

It is easier to run against a bad economy than it is to fix it. In the present election Ted Cruz and Donald Trump promise to restore America's middle class. So did Barack Obama in 2008 with his promise to bring "hope and change." Obama failed. So will Cruz or Trump if either is elected president.

Cruz and Trump have nothing to offer but the blue smoke and mirrors of economic growth to be achieved by cutting taxes for the rich.
 
You wrote: "Our elected representatives should reflect the best in our society and it's HARD to find one that even reflects the norm... We need to raise the standards for our politicians, not accept the low standards that have become the norm."

I asked you, "How do we do that...and what reflects the best in our society?"

Still waiting for an answer that does actually sounds like a reasonable way to do it. I'm not trying to be insulting...but your answer so far sounds like, "We just hope it happens."

I think that you got confused on which post I was answering:

My answer to your question:
"We" do that by voting.

"the best" means that we start by not voting anyone who has violated our laws or our individual moral principals. It means that we set HIGH standards for the people we vote for and not just accepting the ones who tickle our fancy.

It wouldn't be a fast change, but it would be a good one. It would require the near dissolution of the political parties and even a possible amendment to the Constitution stating that no one who has been convicted of a felony can be elected to public office.
 
I think that you got confused on which post I was answering:

My answer to your question:

We" do that by voting.

"We vote."

I doesn't happen.

"the best" means that we start by not voting anyone who has violated our laws or our individual moral principals.

And we resolve the differences in our "moral principles" HOW???


Besides...there are morons who do not violate laws and moral principles...who would be much worse as elected officials.




It means that we set HIGH standards for the people we vote for and not just accepting the ones who tickle our fancy.

C'mon!



It wouldn't be a fast change, but it would be a good one. It would require the near dissolution of the political parties and even a possible amendment to the Constitution stating that no one who has been convicted of a felony can be elected to public office.

Al Capone probably would have made a decent legislator or executive. Nixon was an above average executive.

With all the respect in the world, you are dreaming...and spouting platitudes.
 
"We" do that by voting.

"the best" means that we start by not voting anyone who has violated our laws or our individual moral principals. It means that we set HIGH standards for the people we vote for and not just accepting the ones who tickle our fancy.

It wouldn't be a fast change, but it would be a good one. It would require the near dissolution of the political parties and even a possible amendment to the Constitution stating that no one who has been convicted of a felony can be elected to public office.

By voting the same people who have given the people the same self servicing results up year after year? Priceless
 
"We vote."

I doesn't happen.



And we resolve the differences in our "moral principles" HOW???


Besides...there are morons who do not violate laws and moral principles...who would be much worse as elected officials.






C'mon!





Al Capone probably would have made a decent legislator or executive. Nixon was an above average executive.

With all the respect in the world, you are dreaming...and spouting platitudes.

I prefer the term "vision" instead of dream. Just because it's tough doesn't mean we don't start trying. It's your attitude that change isn't going to happen that's the biggest problem we have with his kind of change. Too many people think that things are just the way are and there's no changing them and that's what's allowed the culls we keeping putting into office depend on to keep getting re-elected.
 
I prefer the term "vision" instead of dream. Just because it's tough doesn't mean we don't start trying. It's your attitude that change isn't going to happen that's the biggest problem we have with his kind of change. Too many people think that things are just the way are and there's no changing them and that's what's allowed the culls we keeping putting into office depend on to keep getting re-elected.

I do not "think" change is going to happen...I am damn near positive it will happen.

I just think the kind of change you are talking about is not in the books.

You wrote:

You wrote:
"Our elected representatives should reflect the best in our society and it's HARD to find one that even reflects the norm... We need to raise the standards for our politicians, not accept the low standards that have become the norm."

I asked you (twice now), "How do we do that...and what reflects the best in our society?"

As I said earlier, I am still waiting for an answer that sounds like a reasonable way to do it...and to see if you can understand that we do not all have the same standards for our politicians.

They are human, FS...AND THEIR PRIMARY CONCERN IS GOING TO BE WITH SELF AND FAMILY just as we all are concerned with self and family.

Give up what you have and go into politics and be the kind of politician you seem to want...one with little concern for self and family...and just concern yourself with the people who are demanding that you do the damn near impossible...and do it at pay lower than much of mid-management America.

No one is going to do that!

We have to be more reasonable about what we expect from our elected officials. YOU have to be more reasonable about what YOU expect from them.
 
Are we unfair to our politicians?

Time for a gut-check. Seems like pretty much everyone is unhappy with, and distrustful of, our collective leadership. We don't seem to like anybody anymore, and to be honest I'm right there, too. In the interest of full honesty, if someone were to ask me, "Well, radcen, who DO you like?", I'm not sure I could answer that.

Are we expecting too much? Are we expecting some sort of super-human capability that even we could never attain?

I'm not suggesting there aren't legitimate gripes, there most certainly are. But are we going too far?

I don't thin we ask them to be "super human", but at the same accord, given that they wield our power and sovereignty, we need quite a bit of assurances and oversight to maintain proper behavior.
 
I don't thin we ask them to be "super human", but at the same accord, given that they wield our power and sovereignty, we need quite a bit of assurances and oversight to maintain proper behavior.
Right. I don't expect them to be "super human", but I do expect them to be better than average.
 
Right. I don't expect them to be "super human", but I do expect them to be better than average.

And if they are not better than average, I expect to have a system of oversight to catch this and properly punish/remove the offending politicians. That part certainly doesn't really exist any longer .
 
I do not "think" change is going to happen...I am damn near positive it will happen.

I just think the kind of change you are talking about is not in the books.

You wrote:

You wrote:

I asked you (twice now), "How do we do that...and what reflects the best in our society?"

As I said earlier, I am still waiting for an answer that sounds like a reasonable way to do it...and to see if you can understand that we do not all have the same standards for our politicians.

They are human, FS...AND THEIR PRIMARY CONCERN IS GOING TO BE WITH SELF AND FAMILY just as we all are concerned with self and family.

Give up what you have and go into politics and be the kind of politician you seem to want...one with little concern for self and family...and just concern yourself with the people who are demanding that you do the damn near impossible...and do it at pay lower than much of mid-management America.

No one is going to do that!

We have to be more reasonable about what we expect from our elected officials. YOU have to be more reasonable about what YOU expect from them.

It's going to have to be personal choice for the most part, but I also think that we should pass a Constitutional Amendment that sets stricter standards for who can be a Federal official (elected or appointed). Things like no felony convictions, no past due taxes for the last 10 years, set certain standards for certain positions (like a judge needing a law degree or an ambassador needing a degree in political science). There are steps that can be taken. They aren't silver bullet solutions, but they move us in the right direction, which is far better than our current "stuck in the mud" state.
 
I don't thin we ask them to be "super human", but at the same accord, given that they wield our power and sovereignty, we need quite a bit of assurances and oversight to maintain proper behavior.

"Proper behavior" covers lots of territory.

As compared with the people who governed over the centuries...the people who govern us are a fairly decently behaved lot.

Caligula, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Henry VIII, George III, Robespierre, Hitler, Saddam Hussein...

...all governed.
 
This is a good example actually, some one blaming politicians for things which are their own fault. Politicians do not divide us, we do. Politicians do not limit our choices, we do. And so on. But it is so much easier to blame others for our own failings.

Generally this is correct. Politicians generally tell the people what the people want to hear. Not because those who run for office are bad folks, but because we punish the ones who tell us stuff that we don't want to hear, meaning that the Darwinian selection for politicians weeds out those who are willing to be upfront and honest with us, especially about complexity. Politicians can, however, influence that process, either trying to mitigate it (and being rejected by their own base for doing so) or trying to exacerbate it (and being rewarded with the lauds of some and hatred of others for doing so).

The majority of Americans don't like Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, or Ted Cruz - the three people most likely (at this point) to be President. That tells us we've been traveling down the "exacerbation" road for a bit.
 
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