Are gun control advocates putting the public at risk?

[LaMidRighter]

Yes, if you look only at cities, that's quite true - but why is it, then, that when the numbers from the entire state are included, all of a sudden it's the gun-loving RED states that have the highest murder rates? Hm?

Chicago and D.C. have the strictest gun control laws in the nation and more murders than any U.S. state. The reason their murder rate by gun is "Lower" is because they have higher population densities than other places. You see, when the sample size is larger, the numbers change, it's called basic math.
If a city has 2M people and 560 are murdered the percentage will be much smaller than a city with a crime problem that has 500K and the rate will reflect that. Of course we aren't talking about units here, we're talking about human life, and unfortunately for you the raw numbers are higher in every U.S. city with more gun control and rising.

Like I say, that sorta puts the lie to the old saw that "an armed society is a polite society". Would that we would follow the gun laws of either Switzerland or Israel - where EVERY gun must be registered! But no, our conservatives think we should have gun laws closer to those of the Sudan.

You haven't said anything, you are the umpteenth person to verbatim reissue these bull**** talking points, the reason you aren't getting a lot of reply is because they are so long dead and rebutted that it's getting boring.

 

[Linc]

As for homicide, 104 countries are better than the USA compared to 98 worse. Almost all those worse are former USSR, South America, and Africa. Bad Company. All the better countries are western like Canada, France, Great Britain and such. Great data though.

I doubt anyone wishes to emulate the Sudan on anything particularly.

However, an analysis of the homicide rates of various nations, along with the rates of private gun ownership, reveal that there is no clear causal link.

I will list the top nations in order of rates of intentional homicide, also showing their rates of private gun ownership, then show the USA by contrast.

Name.... homicide rate per 100,000.... gun ownership rate per 100.

Honduras... 91.6... 6.2
El Salvador... 69.2 ... 5.8
Cote d'Ivoire... 56.9 ... not listed
Jamaica... 52.2 ... 8.1
Venezuela ... 45.1 ... 10.7
Belize ... 41.1 ... 10
Virgin Islands ... 39.2 ... not listed
Guatemala ... 38.5 ... 13.1
skipping down a bit...
Columbia ... 33.4 ... 5.9
South Africa... 31.8 ... 12.7
skipping down some more...
Greenland ... 19.2 ... not listed
Russia ... 10.2 ... 8.9
skipping down some more...
Ukraine.... 5.2 ... 6.6
Cuba... 5.0 ... 4.8

And finally, well over halfway down the list...

USA... 4.2 ... 88.8


Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


As it turns out, the United States does not have that high of a homicide rate compared to most other countries, and given the amount of privately owned arms we are FAR more peaceable than most on a per-gun-owned basis.

OBVIOUSLY, gun ownership is NOT directly linked to murder rates.

As I've said, from my studies it appears that all nations and/or localities with a high murder rate have some or all of the following:

Bad government
Poverty
Drug trade
Gangs or other violent factions
Excessive population density

 

[head of joaquin]

Chicago and D.C. have the strictest gun control laws in the nation and more murders than any U.S. state. The reason their murder rate by gun is "Lower" is because they have higher population densities than other places. You see, when the sample size is larger, the numbers change, it's called basic math.
If a city has 2M people and 560 are murdered the percentage will be much smaller than a city with a crime problem that has 500K and the rate will reflect that. Of course we aren't talking about units here, we're talking about human life, and unfortunately for you the raw numbers are higher in every U.S. city with more gun control and rising.

You haven't said anything, you are the umpteenth person to verbatim reissue these bull**** talking points, the reason you aren't getting a lot of reply is because they are so long dead and rebutted that it's getting boring.

This is like blaming traffic on traffic lights.

Urban areas tend to have a lot of crime, especially gun crime. So of course in response they passed stricter gun laws than places that didn't.

Here's you: "Look at all those traffic lights and traffic in Chicago -- the traffic lights must be causing the traffic because Small Town only has a few traffic lights and little traffic!"

Try to use logic once in a while instead of NRA memes.

 

[LaMidRighter]

As for homicide, 104 countries are better than the USA compared to 98 worse. Almost all those worse are former USSR, South America, and Africa. Bad Company. All the better countries are western like Canada, France, Great Britain and such. Great data though.

And if you knew the subject matter you would also realize that most of their rates are up, while ours have been falling steadily since around the late 80s. The U.K. murder rate doubled after the handgun bans, though their murder rate was already lower, and those countries are all experienced very high spikes in violent crime rates in general. Oh, and you used the word mute ealier when it should have been MOOT.

 

[BretJ]

I see that while you were busy harping about 'gangstas', you conveniently ignored the point that the states with the highest homicide rates are RED states. Here's the 2011 rankings of the 20 states with the highest homicide rates, from highest to lowest:

X - Louisiana
X - Mississippi
New Mexico
Maryland
X - South Carolina
X - Alabama
Michigan
X - Arizona
X - Missouri
X - Tennessee
Illinois
X - Georgia
X - Oklahoma
X - Arkansas
X - North Carolina
X - Nevada
X - Florida
Pennsylvania
California
X - Indiana

Soooo....FOURTEEN out of the top twenty states with the highest murder rates are high-gun-ownership RED states (and the overall crime rate rankings isn't that much different). Why is that, blax?

Why does that matter? Seriously, why does it matter? The reality is that the vast majority of firearm murders occur in the cities with the strictest gun control laws. Enforce those laws already in place and you would have a far greater impact. Our firearm murder rate would be down there with all the other "civilized" countries. Problem is that the local governments, community organizers and local law enforcement would have to grow a pair rather than just wringing their hands about how bad it is. BTW, Australia and Sweden have a much larger incidence of rapes in their countries. Highest in the world actually. Perhaps there is a a correlation between their lack of firearms and rape. Perhaps they need to register male appendages. After all, a woman is far more likely to be raped by someone she knows with a penis. Or it could just be a cultural thing that needs to be addressed.......

 

[Spartacus FPV]

This is like blaming traffic on traffic lights.

Urban areas tend to have a lot of crime, especially gun crime. So of course in response they passed stricter gun laws than places that didn't.

Here's you: "Look at all those traffic lights and traffic in Chicago -- the traffic lights must be causing the traffic because Small Town only has a few traffic lights and little traffic!"

Try to use logic once in a while instead of NRA memes.

Worst analogy I've ever heard

 

[TurtleDude]

This is like blaming traffic on traffic lights.

Urban areas tend to have a lot of crime, especially gun crime. So of course in response they passed stricter gun laws than places that didn't.

Here's you: "Look at all those traffic lights and traffic in Chicago -- the traffic lights must be causing the traffic because Small Town only has a few traffic lights and little traffic!"

Try to use logic once in a while instead of NRA memes.

that's a hall of shame lamer post.

you hate gun owners

you support more gun laws

see the proof?

 

[LaMidRighter]

Worst analogy I've ever heard

Consider the source.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Consider the source.

Oh I know, I don't often even address that hyper-partisan troll... it just bothered me that he invoked the word logic while being the most fallacious illogical poster on DP.

 

[BretJ]

And if you knew the subject matter you would also realize that most of their rates are up, while ours have been falling steadily since around the late 80s. The U.K. murder rate doubled after the handgun bans, though their murder rate was already lower, and those countries are all experienced very high spikes in violent crime rates in general. Oh, and you used the word mute ealier when it should have been MOOT.

Canada is far less restrictive than the UK with firearms. Yet their murder rates are similar. They were even before the restrictive gun laws. You would think they would be higher eh?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Canada is far less restrictive than the UK with firearms. Yet their murder rates are similar. They were even before the restrictive gun laws. You would think they would be higher eh?

And how do the murder rates of either one compare to that of far less-restrictive America?

 

[LaMidRighter]

Canada is far less restrictive than the UK with firearms. Yet their murder rates are similar. They were even before the restrictive gun laws. You would think they would be higher eh?

A lot of the "rates" are symptoms of what is going on in any given area at the time. If people didn't have guns during prohibition they would have stabbed, beaten, or blown each other up. Poverty, eras of social disruption, and other negative factors far more influence violence spikes than anything else.

 

[LaMidRighter]

And how do the murder rates of either one compare to that of far less-restrictive America?

Their rates have been rising, ours have been overall dropping with the exception of Baltimore, D.C., Chicago, and even certain parts of Los Angeles. Sorry, your point has already been crushed.

 

[TurtleDude]

And how do the murder rates of either one compare to that of far less-restrictive America?

well white americans have far lower rates of violence than similarly situated whites in Europe

 

[Linc]

The data presented did not mention trends. You've had a derailment. As for correcting my English, you used ealier instead of earlier, dood.

And if you knew the subject matter you would also realize that most of their rates are up, while ours have been falling steadily since around the late 80s. The U.K. murder rate doubled after the handgun bans, though their murder rate was already lower, and those countries are all experienced very high spikes in violent crime rates in general. Oh, and you used the word mute ealier when it should have been MOOT.

 

[Linc]

Haven't seen you for a while dood. Why would you bring the word white into this?

well white americans have far lower rates of violence than similarly situated whites in Europe

 

[LaMidRighter]

The data presented did not mention trends. You've had a derailment. As for correcting my English, you used ealier instead of [B]earlier[/B], dood.

You asked about the trends, they are increasing in the U.K. and Canada. Every bit of data I've seen bears this out, AND, this has been explained thousands of times already. Got anything better than a stale talking point?

 

[head of joaquin]

that's a hall of shame lamer post.

you hate gun owners

you support more gun laws

see the proof?

Translated: can't rebut it. I know, I know. Boomsticklovers don't understand basic logic.

 

[blackjack50]

As for homicide, 104 countries are better than the USA compared to 98 worse. Almost all those worse are former USSR, South America, and Africa. Bad Company. All the better countries are western like Canada, France, Great Britain and such. Great data though.

So now we want to talk homicide? You know those stats are a joke right? Most European nations don't count anyone 16 and under (or under 16) when they commit murder. That also doesn't account for the relatively homogenous society (political and ethnic). It also doesn't account for the smaller areas with less people or the fact that if you pull the highest homicide rates (top 20 cities) out of our stats. Then you have demographic difference. Gang crime (drugs being a factor).

Most cities in America aren't violent. You aren't in any more danger here than the UK. Well unless you are in the wrong hood. We quarantine the violence. We restrict it to poor people for the most part. Look at any city. Guns are not our problem. It is our culture and the methods used to deal with the violence. Hell police in those nations are quite often better trained.

I do know this though. Here you can shoot someone in self defense. You do that in Europe and you have a much higher % chance of going to jail.

 

[TurtleDude]

Haven't seen you for a while dood. Why would you bring the word white into this?

because most of the gun owners in the USA are white and the statistics are skewed by the astronomically high rates of black gun violence

obviously for most americans, the availability of guns does not create crime problems

 

[head of joaquin]

Worst analogy I've ever heard

The analogy fits perfectly or you could rebut it. You can't. Typical Boomsticklover punt.

 

[head of joaquin]

obviously for most americans, the availability of guns does not create crime problems

This sentence doesn't even make sense.

The availability of guns is behind every single instance of gun violence by definition. Jesus man, try to use logic for once.

 

[Ikari]

So what does everyone think, are gun control advocates putting public safety at risk, by supporting measures to remove guns from the public?

Advocating? No. Eliciting government force against the free exercise of rights by the individual? Yes.

 

[TurtleDude]

This sentence doesn't even make sense.

The availability of guns is behind every single instance of gun violence by definition. Jesus man, try to use logic for once.

you telling anyone to use logic is hilarious

the availability of guns obviously does not increase crime since there are more legally owned guns in America now than there were in the 1960s yet the crime rate involving firearms is much lower

and for white americans, having more guns means nothing since our rate of violent crime is lower than it is for white europeans in countries where guns are strictly controlled

 

[Linc]

To repeat. We do not hate guns. Just the opposite. We know where that is going. We also know there will never be another federal gun law passed. How can we work together to enforce the ones you agree with, without throwing insults?

that's a hall of shame lamer post.

you hate gun owners

you support more gun laws

see the proof?