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Are gun control advocates putting the public at risk?

American

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So what does everyone think, are gun control advocates putting public safety at risk, by supporting measures to remove guns from the public?
 

Josie

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So what does everyone think, are gun control advocates putting public safety at risk, by supporting measures to remove guns from the public?
That's already been proven with the mass shootings at places where carrying a gun isn't allowed.
 

TurtleDude

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So what does everyone think, are gun control advocates putting public safety at risk, by supporting measures to remove guns from the public?

of course they are. they are generally advocates for more government and criminals' rights
 

DAKitty

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Any time you make it harder for the law abiding to acquire the means necessary to defend himself, you put the public at greater risk.
 

Spartacus FPV

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Since I cannot bear arms in Maryland (may-issue concealed carry) should I ever be killed in a situation I would have been able to fight back I will certainly curse the haymarkets of the world with my last breath.

"For hate sake I spit my last breath at thee"
 

Glen Contrarian

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Sooo...if "an armed society is a polite society", why is it that the heavily-armed inner cities are the most violent places? And why is it that we-gotta-have-our-guns Southern states have the highest homicide rates among the states?

Likewise, why is it that the nations with much lower gun ownership rates usually have much lower homicide rates?

Oh, wait - I know, it's all just a liberal big-government conspiracy....
 

tech30528

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of course they are. they are generally advocates for more government and criminals' rights
Those two things pretty much amount to the same thing.
 

nota bene

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Sooo...if "an armed society is a polite society", why is it that the heavily-armed inner cities are the most violent places? And why is it that we-gotta-have-our-guns Southern states have the highest homicide rates among the states?

Likewise, why is it that the nations with much lower gun ownership rates usually have much lower homicide rates?

Oh, wait - I know, it's all just a liberal big-government conspiracy....
Are you talking about Chicago?
 

ttwtt78640

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The biggest mystery to me with the most recent SCOTUS 2A decisions is that they seem to ignore completely that the 2A applies to one's individual constitutional right to keep and bear arms. A recent case in MD tried to challange the law completely banning the ability to carry a loaded handgun, legally purchased, (openly or concealed) without prior permission being rented from the state.

Maryland handgun laws ruled outside scope of Second Amendment | Maryland Daily Record
 

ttwtt78640

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Sooo...if "an armed society is a polite society", why is it that the heavily-armed inner cities are the most violent places? And why is it that we-gotta-have-our-guns Southern states have the highest homicide rates among the states?

Likewise, why is it that the nations with much lower gun ownership rates usually have much lower homicide rates?

Oh, wait - I know, it's all just a liberal big-government conspiracy....
Maryland (6.8/100K murder rate) has much stricter gun control laws and is much further north than Texas (4.4/100K murder rate).

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

As far as your stricter gun law nations go, simply look at Mexico.
 

BretJ

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Sooo...if "an armed society is a polite society", why is it that the heavily-armed inner cities are the most violent places? And why is it that we-gotta-have-our-guns Southern states have the highest homicide rates among the states?

Likewise, why is it that the nations with much lower gun ownership rates usually have much lower homicide rates?

Oh, wait - I know, it's all just a liberal big-government conspiracy....
Because those in the city that are heavily armed tend to be the thugs shooting each other. Notice how well those gun laws are working? What good are gun laws if no one enforces them as is the case in the "heavily-armed" inner cities? Take out the firearms homicides caused by the thugs shooting each other in the inner cities and you would see our homicide rates would be pretty much on par with the rest of the "civilised" world. There are many countries that have even stricter laws than the UK yet have much, much higher homicide rates.

The conspiracy lies in asking this question, "Why do the cities with the highest number of gun homicides, yet have the strictest gun laws, not enforce the gun laws currently in place in order to reduce those numbers"? Could it be that they do not want to be falsely accused of something and thereby reduce their liberal voting base? Things that make you go hmmmmmm....
 

American

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Sooo...if "an armed society is a polite society", why is it that the heavily-armed inner cities are the most violent places? And why is it that we-gotta-have-our-guns Southern states have the highest homicide rates among the states?

Likewise, why is it that the nations with much lower gun ownership rates usually have much lower homicide rates?

Oh, wait - I know, it's all just a liberal big-government conspiracy....
OR it could be a lack of credible facts on your part. Please provide.
 

blaxshep

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Sooo...if "an armed society is a polite society", why is it that the heavily-armed inner cities are the most violent places?
Because of two fold liberal failures.

1. The idea that criminals are victims of society and the Nanny State dependency it creates breeds criminal infested "hoods".

2. Gun control disarms the law abiding citizens that have to live with these gangstas taking away their right of self-defense.
 

TurtleDude

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Because of two fold liberal failures.

1. The idea that criminals are victims of society and the Nanny State dependency it creates breeds criminal infested "hoods".

2. Gun control disarms the law abiding citizens that have to live with these gangstas taking away their right of self-defense.
gun control is for criminals what OSHA is for factory workers
 

Goshin

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Sooo...if "an armed society is a polite society", why is it that the heavily-armed inner cities are the most violent places? And why is it that we-gotta-have-our-guns Southern states have the highest homicide rates among the states?

Likewise, why is it that the nations with much lower gun ownership rates usually have much lower homicide rates?

Oh, wait - I know, it's all just a liberal big-government conspiracy....

Actually that isn't true.


I've done the research, and violent crime and murder vary greatly from city to city and nation to nation, and gun laws or private gun ownership doesn't seem to have a significant effect on the stats either way.

Some places with brutally strict gun control have far higher murder rates than others with less, and vice-versa.


Statistically speaking, it isn't about the guns.
 

blackjack50

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Sooo...if "an armed society is a polite society", why is it that the heavily-armed inner cities are the most violent places? And why is it that we-gotta-have-our-guns Southern states have the highest homicide rates among the states?

Likewise, why is it that the nations with much lower gun ownership rates usually have much lower homicide rates?

Oh, wait - I know, it's all just a liberal big-government conspiracy....
Wow. Just wow. Are you saying firearms are the reasons crimes are committed? There are over 20 in the house I live and no murders. Of course my family is not broke living in the ghetto with no male role model.

Why not compare city by city the most violent cities in America? You will find most aren't in the American south. I would appreciate it if you would not put a bullseye on us gun toting southern men when you clearly don't understand the factors in why violence occurs.
 

Glen Contrarian

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Because of two fold liberal failures.

1. The idea that criminals are victims of society and the Nanny State dependency it creates breeds criminal infested "hoods".

2. Gun control disarms the law abiding citizens that have to live with these gangstas taking away their right of self-defense.
I see that while you were busy harping about 'gangstas', you conveniently ignored the point that the states with the highest homicide rates are RED states. Here's the 2011 rankings of the 20 states with the highest homicide rates, from highest to lowest:

X - Louisiana
X - Mississippi
New Mexico
Maryland
X - South Carolina
X - Alabama
Michigan
X - Arizona
X - Missouri
X - Tennessee
Illinois
X - Georgia
X - Oklahoma
X - Arkansas
X - North Carolina
X - Nevada
X - Florida
Pennsylvania
California
X - Indiana

Soooo....FOURTEEN out of the top twenty states with the highest murder rates are high-gun-ownership RED states (and the overall crime rate rankings isn't that much different). Why is that, blax?
 

TurtleDude

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I see that while you were busy harping about 'gangstas', you conveniently ignored the point that the states with the highest homicide rates are RED states. Here's the 2011 rankings of the 20 states with the highest homicide rates, from highest to lowest:

X - Louisiana
X - Mississippi
New Mexico
Maryland
X - South Carolina
X - Alabama
Michigan
X - Arizona
X - Missouri
X - Tennessee
Illinois
X - Georgia
X - Oklahoma
X - Arkansas
X - North Carolina
X - Nevada
X - Florida
Pennsylvania
California
X - Indiana

Soooo....FOURTEEN out of the top twenty states with the highest murder rates are high-gun-ownership RED states (and the overall crime rate rankings isn't that much different). Why is that, blax?
if the anti gun scumbags in office could prove that more guns among law abiding people=more crime they would have studies to prove it

bottom line-gun control (and by that I mean laws that are directed at law abiding people supposedly to make it harder for people already banned from owning guns from getting them) is designed to harass law abiding gun owners and not criminals

its a facade that liberals use to pretend they want to do something about crime without actually having a deleterious impact on a valued left wing constituency-street criminals and those who spawn and support them
 

Goshin

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I see that while you were busy harping about 'gangstas', you conveniently ignored the point that the states with the highest homicide rates are RED states. Here's the 2011 rankings of the 20 states with the highest homicide rates, from highest to lowest:

X - Louisiana
X - Mississippi
New Mexico
Maryland
X - South Carolina
X - Alabama
Michigan
X - Arizona
X - Missouri
X - Tennessee
Illinois
X - Georgia
X - Oklahoma
X - Arkansas
X - North Carolina
X - Nevada
X - Florida
Pennsylvania
California
X - Indiana

Soooo....FOURTEEN out of the top twenty states with the highest murder rates are high-gun-ownership RED states (and the overall crime rate rankings isn't that much different). Why is that, blax?

Fifteen of the top 25 most dangerous cities are "blue", and some of them have the strictest gun control laws in the nation.

FBI Lists Top 20 Most Dangerous Cities In America In 2012 | 105.9 Kiss-FM
 

Glen Contrarian

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Fifteen of the top 25 most dangerous cities are "blue", and some of them have the strictest gun control laws in the nation.

FBI Lists Top 20 Most Dangerous Cities In America In 2012 | 105.9 Kiss-FM
Yes, if you look only at cities, that's quite true - but why is it, then, that when the numbers from the entire state are included, all of a sudden it's the gun-loving RED states that have the highest murder rates? Hm?

Like I say, that sorta puts the lie to the old saw that "an armed society is a polite society". Would that we would follow the gun laws of either Switzerland or Israel - where EVERY gun must be registered! But no, our conservatives think we should have gun laws closer to those of the Sudan.
 

Goshin

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Yes, if you look only at cities, that's quite true - but why is it, then, that when the numbers from the entire state are included, all of a sudden it's the gun-loving RED states that have the highest murder rates? Hm?

Like I say, that sorta puts the lie to the old saw that "an armed society is a polite society". Would that we would follow the gun laws of either Switzerland or Israel - where EVERY gun must be registered! But no, our conservatives think we should have gun laws closer to those of the Sudan.

I doubt anyone wishes to emulate the Sudan on anything particularly.

However, an analysis of the homicide rates of various nations, along with the rates of private gun ownership, reveal that there is no clear causal link.

I will list the top nations in order of rates of intentional homicide, also showing their rates of private gun ownership, then show the USA by contrast.

Name.... homicide rate per 100,000.... gun ownership rate per 100.

Honduras... 91.6... 6.2
El Salvador... 69.2 ... 5.8
Cote d'Ivoire... 56.9 ... not listed
Jamaica... 52.2 ... 8.1
Venezuela ... 45.1 ... 10.7
Belize ... 41.1 ... 10
Virgin Islands ... 39.2 ... not listed
Guatemala ... 38.5 ... 13.1
skipping down a bit...
Columbia ... 33.4 ... 5.9
South Africa... 31.8 ... 12.7
skipping down some more...
Greenland ... 19.2 ... not listed
Russia ... 10.2 ... 8.9
skipping down some more...
Ukraine.... 5.2 ... 6.6
Cuba... 5.0 ... 4.8

And finally, well over halfway down the list...

USA... 4.2 ... 88.8


Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


As it turns out, the United States does not have that high of a homicide rate compared to most other countries, and given the amount of privately owned arms we are FAR more peaceable than most on a per-gun-owned basis.

OBVIOUSLY, gun ownership is NOT directly linked to murder rates.

As I've said, from my studies it appears that all nations and/or localities with a high murder rate have some or all of the following:

Bad government
Poverty
Drug trade
Gangs or other violent factions
Excessive population density
 

Glen Contrarian

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I doubt anyone wishes to emulate the Sudan on anything particularly.

However...
Nice try, guy - it sure does look by what you presented that America's murder rate is REALLY LOW, especially given our atmospherically-high gun ownership rate.

Problem is, you compared apples to oranges. You compared America - a first-world nation in every sense of the phrase - to NOT A SINGLE OTHER FIRST-WORLD NATION (unless you count Greenland, which IIRC is actually a territory of Denmark).

So how about going back and comparing apples to apples, and seeing how America's homicide rate compares with other first-world nations, hm? And then get back to us.
 

Goshin

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Nice try, guy - it sure does look by what you presented that America's murder rate is REALLY LOW, especially given our atmospherically-high gun ownership rate.

Problem is, you compared apples to oranges. You compared America - a first-world nation in every sense of the phrase - to NOT A SINGLE OTHER FIRST-WORLD NATION (unless you count Greenland, which IIRC is actually a territory of Denmark).

So how about going back and comparing apples to apples, and seeing how America's homicide rate compares with other first-world nations, hm? And then get back to us.



There is a link to the entire list, if you wish to look at it.


The point was not to say "oh look how much more civilized we are than 3rd world countries"... that's hardly news... but to put it in perspective: WE have by far the highest rates of gun ownership, but in comparison with all the other nations of the world only a middling-low murder rate... if guns were directly linked to homicide rates this would be very different, you'd be able to SEE that most nations with higher gun ownership rates had higher murder rates... but you don't see that.

What you see is that murder rates are a matter of culture, bad government, poverty, gangs/factions, drug trade and suchlike... gun proliferation is a minor factor at most.





However, if you are simply determined to ignore any facts that don't fit your script, that isn't my problem.
 

Linc

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Since guns are not being removed from the public, the point is mute. In fact, here in Illinois, we'll soon become the last state to conceal-carry. Cheers
 
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