Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354, W:548]

[Winston]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354]

So the answer is that nothing can be done.

But the problem seems fairly straight forward. The U.K., Germany, France, Sweden have permitted tens of thousands of Arab Muslims move in over the past couple of decades. The thought was there would be no consequences to such a large number of people from a foreign country, a foreign culture, coming over.

That thought is being proven wrong. What is the advantage in continuing such policies? What does the UK ect. gain from it? A feeling of moral superiority? Of some sort of ideological vindication?

Do refugees commit acts of terror at higher or lower rates than non-refugees?

 

[apdst]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

That is a good point and well said...and there is definitely some truth to it.

But I will give you an example of two events that took place long ago - the Jonestown Massacre and the Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge genocide....both of which were reported on in the late 1970's.

I was alive when both happened. And both happened in distant areas. Jonestown had no government policing at all and was in Guyana. The other was in Cambodia.

I barely heard a peep about the Khmer Rouge horrors...even once the rest of the world knew about them. Sure, there were news reports and we were horrified. But nothing huge. And that caused the deaths of well over a million people...maybe two million. Many/most executed simply for owning a pair of glasses or having a college degree.
I remember having to look for information on my own just to try and find out what happened over there.

Yet when Jonestown happened...I remember the news went CRAZY with it. Report after report...every little detail discussed. And 'only' 918 people died in Jonestown. And it was not just in America (as almost all of the deaths were American). All over the western world...they fixated on it.

But the Jonestown massacre involved Americans/western people. And the Cambodian genocide was 'over there' with people most westerners neither knew nor could relate to.

Sure, much of the Jonestown disaster was on tape/video...but that is no excuse for relatively ignoring the Cambodian genocide.

And that was just the first example I could think of.


It's not just because of good neighborhoods and bad neighborhoods.

I think it's mostly that people just care less about things they do not understand/can relate to.

Most people did not understand/could relate to Rwandans. So the world did not freak out as much as it should have while 800,000 Rwandans hacked each other to death in 1994. And America/UN pulled out and let it happen.

But when Yugoslavia broke apart at much less loss of life...the West went crazy. America and the UN threw a relative ton into that conflict. I remember the daily military briefings on TV.

And on and on.


Nope...like it or not, most people care more about people they can relate to/understand than people they don't relate to/understand.

And don't even get me starteed about nationalities. All I will say on that is, a person's nationality means NOTHING to me...literally. I don't care how many Americans died in a plane crash...I just care how many people died. But to many people, they tend to care FAR more about the plane crash if many of the passengers were of their nationality.

And that is just wrong.


Look...we all have our faults. God knows I have a billion of them.

But it is flat out wrong (assuming you do not personally know the people involved) to care more about or pay more attention to the 7 people who died in London last night than the 80 people who died in Kabul last week. No matter where you are from.

And so long as people value one human over another for relatively trivial reasons...this planet will contuinue to remain truly ****ed up.


Rant over.

Jonestown was getting attention before the suicide/murder. There was a U.S. Congressman ambushed and murdered at Jonestown.

Cambodia was ignored because to draw attention to it would destroy the argument that communism is great and the United States was evil for going to Vietnam.

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354]

Eh? Fake news and information is used on all sides to garner support. ISIS or AL Q is no different. Fake news is a serious problem in parts of societies that feel under attack and only consume information from sources that promote and enhance their own fears.. real or not.

Ok-- but are they fake stories? They aren't. So when ISIS blows up a concert by some half clothed teenybopper, they are being agitated by accurate information.
The problem isn't 'fake news.'

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354]

Do refugees commit acts of terror at higher or lower rates than non-refugees?

They are not all refugees we are talking about.
What's the advantage in saying that, say out of 100,000 immigrants from those regions, only 1% are violent? That simply means that there are 1000 people willing to blow themselves up in concerts or run people over on bridges. Less than a dozen of that hypothetical 1000 have been involved in the carnage of late.
And as more people move in, that 1% means more and more actual people.

 

[apdst]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Your selective application of the principles of the 5th amendment noted...

I'm getting off this merry-go-round.

You might ought to, since you don't get it.

 

[apdst]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354]

Do refugees commit acts of terror at higher or lower rates than non-refugees?

What are the murder rates in the countries they come from?

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354]

Ok-- but are they fake stories? They aren't. So when ISIS blows up a concert by some half clothed teenybopper, they are being agitated by accurate information.
The problem isn't 'fake news.'

Yes they are.. when the stories are written to blame all Muslims for the actions of the few.

Or to blame Muslims for such an attack and call it a terror attack, but not do the same when it is a crazy white Christian with right wing views slaughtering black people or kids......

But we are off topic, so lets leave it at that.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

I strongly approve of President Roosevelt's internment order, which the Supreme Court upheld against a challenge that it unconstitutionally discriminated by race. The internment worked very well in protecting the U.S. against disloyal people of Japanese ancestry. Your assertion that it shows that Americans were racists is a cheap slander against this country, but it does not surprise me to see you make it.

Yes, I've noticed that you approve heavily of imprisoning innocent people in the name of race based hysteria. And yes, the internment camps were racist in nature--- especially considering that no other ethnic group had to pratically beg to be allowed to fight against the Axis.

The heroic war record of the 442nd speaks for itself, as does your total dismissal of them.

Considering that the vast majority of cases of "disloyal" people were, in fact, Japanese naval officers undercover......

 

[Peter King]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

So what are the 'real' solutions to the problem?
What IS the problem that needs to be solved? What are these guys upset about?

These guys are sick in the head, that is the problem and they are upset because the majority of Muslims doesn't support them and they throw terrorist temper tantrums all over the world to feed their ego's. Fact is that the only thing that in the end they will feel is the utter despair of defeat (or a bomb/bullet shot up their stupid backsides).

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354]

Yes they are.. when the stories are written to blame all Muslims for the actions of the few.

Or to blame Muslims for such an attack and call it a terror attack, but not do the same when it is a crazy white Christian with right wing views slaughtering black people or kids......

But we are off topic, so lets leave it at that.

Pete, the problem isn't how non-Muslims react to terrorist bombings being completed by Muslims.
The problem are the bombings.

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

These guys are sick in the head, that is the problem and they are upset because the majority of Muslims doesn't support them and they throw terrorist temper tantrums all over the world to feed their ego's. Fact is that the only thing that in the end they will feel is the utter despair of defeat (or a bomb/bullet shot up their stupid backsides).

They are not blowing up concerts because they are mad because other Muslims won't join them in blowing up concerts.
They blow them up because they represent something which is 'un-Islamic' and thus a provocation.

 

[apdst]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Yes, I've noticed that you approve heavily of imprisoning innocent people in the name of race based hysteria. And yes, the internment camps were racist in nature--- especially considering that no other ethnic group had to pratically beg to be allowed to fight against the Axis.

The heroic war record of the 442nd speaks for itself, as does your total dismissal of them.

Considering that the vast majority of cases of "disloyal" people were, in fact, Japanese naval officers undercover......

Germans and Italians were interned, too. So, it wasn't totally race based.

 

[William Rea]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Why does Britain not bring back the death penalty for these jihadist mass murderers? They are war criminals, and they deserve to hang for their crimes. I am sure the images, sent around the world, would take some the glamor out of being a jihadist. Being bound, hooded, and strung up like a piece of meat is hardly going out in a blaze of glory, and it would not make good material for jihadist recruiting videos.

I think that the major problem there is that they are largely already carrying out the sentence themselves before we get the chance to try them :roll:

 

[Peter King]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

They are not blowing up concerts because they are mad because other Muslims won't join them in blowing up concerts.
They blow them up because they represent something which is 'un-Islamic' and thus a provocation.

No, that is because they are sick in the head. They are mad at the other muslims is because they think they have the pure form of Islam that everybody has to support and most muslims do not.

And they blew up the concert because they want to spread fear and cause the "non muslims" to turn on all Muslims and that they will have been the ones who "united Islam". That of course is not going to happen.

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354]

Pete, the problem isn't how non-Muslims react to terrorist bombings being completed by Muslims.
The problem are the bombings.

Yes the problem is the attacks. Why do they happen? One of the reason they can happen, is the reactions of non-Muslims to Muslims or actions by non-Muslims against Muslims/family/Tribe/nationality.. because ISIS and similar organisation uses these reactions to fuel hatred and their world view. It is a never ending cycle that has to be broken. The best recruiter for ISIS is in fact the anti-Muslim right wing and Trump. All ISIS has to say, is.. see these white Christians are attacking all Muslims.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Germans and Italians were interned, too. So, it wasn't totally race based.

Yes, not totally; but when you compare the way this country treated people of German origin(who, by the way, did conduct a very active campaign of sabotage and terrorism in New York in the early days of the First World War) versus how they treated people of Japanese origin.....

Nobody claimed Americans whose families were from Germany were inherently untrust-worthy. Nobody tried to stop Italian Americans or German Americans from enlisting.

 

[slick]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

And just what should those efforts consist of, I wonder? Holding candlelight vigils? Community sensitivity workshops? Linking hands with them and singing "Kumbayah?"

Showing still more weakness to Islamists will only make them despise unbelievers even more than they do now.

These utopian notions are always talked about, sometimes used but they never work. If they were tried and failed by
South & West side Chicagoans who in fact trace their American Christian roots back hundreds of years how can they be expected to be used
on Muslim invaders who didn't even have a Mosque to pray in until 1935 in Iowa

 

[William Rea]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Flashback. England chose to harbor the Libyan militants to allow their MI5 to use them. It's England that is being used, although the Libyans have a legitimate gripe. The destruction of Libya is/was a World Class crime with thousands of dead and hundreds of thousands of refugees. Your NATO success story of turning the most prosperous Nation is Africa into morass of starvation, death, destruction, chaos, and misery. Gee, why are these Libyans so angry? Can't they see the propaganda story that we're helping them? Sometimes chickens come home to roost. That doesn't mean I am sympathetic to these terrorists, but I know where they are coming from.
/

Whenever I hear the phrase, 'Protecting our interests in.....' it makes my blood run cold.

 

[William Rea]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Emphatically not. But a bit more like Sweden: I regret it but its time for all police to be armed.

No it isn't.

 

[apdst]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Yes, not totally; but when you compare the way this country treated people of German origin(who, by the way, did conduct a very active campaign of sabotage and terrorism in New York in the early days of the First World War) versus how they treated people of Japanese origin.....

Nobody claimed Americans whose families were from Germany were inherently untrust-worthy. Nobody tried to stop Italian Americans or German Americans from enlisting.

It happened during WW1.

Most Nesei who served in the military were draftees, including a majority of the 442nd RCT.

 

[William Rea]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158, W:354]

Pete, the power of social media is very well known. Social media enables considerably larger numbers of vulnerable people who can apparently be easily led towards terrorist ideologies to be reached, in a wider geographic area, and with less effort by the perpetrators.

Look at IS. Their PR strategy has been effective and elaborate through Social Media and it’s been a key part of their massive rise to global infamy. Without it, there's no way they would have been able to groom as many people as they have.

I support shutting down all social media outlets who knowingly share and support extremist propoganda. Make it harder for them to spread their vile messages.

I couldn't disagree with you any more than I already do on this Serenity.

If this happens then the terrorists have made us give up freedom for security and we will deserve neither for doing it.

 

[apdst]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

No it isn't.

Tell that to the London cop who showed up to a knife fight with a billy club and got carved up.

 

[exoplanet]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

I strongly approve of President Roosevelt's internment order, which the Supreme Court upheld against a challenge that it unconstitutionally discriminated by race. The internment worked very well in protecting the U.S. against disloyal people of Japanese ancestry. Your assertion that it shows that Americans were racists is a cheap slander against this country, but it does not surprise me to see you make it.

Funny that Reagan and Gerald Ford didn't think it was something to be proud of. You're definitely out there with a fringe position here. It's almost confusing to me that you think something is wrong with racism to begin with.

 

[BWG]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Lol ! A realistic point of view, huh ? Your completely made up scenario of terrorist armed with explosives, body armor and fully automatic rifles was, I gather ?
I gave you a realistic scenario, it didnt happen in a movie, which I suspect youve been watching way too many of, it happened in Dallas.

You can discount the deterent of a well armed populace all you want, it doesnt make any difference to the terrorist and criminals who are forced to take it into consideration before carrying out their acts of violence

Your example had nothing to do with a 'well armed populace'. The police shot those two guys.


It was beefed up security at a controversial event.


From your article...

Two people are reported dead after they were shot by police Sunday outside a building where a contest for cartoon depictions of the Prophet Muhammad was being held in Garland, Texas.
[...]
There was a heavy security presence at the event, with 40 extra officers patrolling the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland.

 

[akyron]

Re: Another major terrorist attack in London[W:158]

Yeah, we do not hear anything from the non-violent muslims, that is true if you have closed your ears to reality. Moderate and non-violent muslims often speak out and take action but if you are unwilling to recognize that, there is very little they could do that would register with you.

The attack in Manchester last week showed that Muslims not only spoke out, they actually reported the attacker several times, but if authorities do not listen, it is not the fault of the large non-violent and well willing muslims that their warnings fell on deaf ears.

*crickets* on a small island in a vast ocean of abandoned responsibility.

Violent muslims cannot exist without the active and passive support of "good" muslims.

Just like the nazis could not have killed millions without the "passive" good germans.
Just like Stalin and his regime could not have killed millions without the "passive" support of good russians.

Its time to put your big boy pants on and grow up.

History again repeats and we learn nothing.