Another day, another drug raid fatality

[clownboy]

you are right, **** that little girl, someone near her must of been a dirtbag, she deseved that bullet in her head, praise be unto the police.

Nice try, shoehorn the little girl's story into defense for your drug dealers. Give it a rest and take it to the thread about that event. This is about a drug dealer who got shot in a raid.

I find it shocking you think a military raid on kids selling weed is an appropriate response, and when someone who is nonviolent meets a violent death at the hands of the police, you cheer the police.

I find it shocking you continue to believe that drug dealing is some non violent fairy game where there is zero danger for the enforcing officers. And no, unlike you I don't need to gild the lily. I don't cheer when a life is lost. But at some point you have to recognize that this person CHOSE this lifestyle, CHOSE to deal drugs and KNEW what might happen as a result. Knowing that, police knock in your door, you don't resist, you don't advance, you just lie there, silently until you can ask for your lawyer.

 

[clownboy]

Except they almost never are. And many that indeed are only happen after public scrutiny forces the legal system's hand.

Except they almost always are, but they aren't typically drawn and quartered as the anti-coppers want.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Nice try, shoehorn the little girl's story into defense for your drug dealers. Give it a rest and take it to the thread about that event. This is about a drug dealer who got shot in a raid.



I find it shocking you continue to believe that drug dealing is some non violent fairy game where there is zero danger for the enforcing officers. And no, unlike you I don't need to gild the lily. I don't cheer when a life is lost. But at some point you have to recognize that this person CHOSE this lifestyle, CHOSE to deal drugs and KNEW what might happen as a result. Knowing that, police knock in your door, you don't resist, you don't advance, you just lie there, silently until you can ask for your lawyer.

The most dangerous thing about Marijuana, is getting caught with it by police.


You take the police accounts word as gold. I've shown you in the other two stories I provided, they lie. and in this story, the "Advancing" is contradicted by eyewitness accounts.

and the basketball short kid, from our understanding of how it went down, he had no time to do anything but get face shot dead.


1. do you support swat raids for low level marijuana warrants?

2. what criteria do you believe should be met before a swat team is rolled?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Nice try, shoehorn the little girl's story into defense for your drug dealers. Give it a rest and take it to the thread about that event. This is about a drug dealer who got shot in a raid.



I find it shocking you continue to believe that drug dealing is some non violent fairy game where there is zero danger for the enforcing officers. And no, unlike you I don't need to gild the lily. I don't cheer when a life is lost. But at some point you have to recognize that this person CHOSE this lifestyle, CHOSE to deal drugs and KNEW what might happen as a result. Knowing that, police knock in your door, you don't resist, you don't advance, you just lie there, silently until you can ask for your lawyer.

btw:

Two of Cruice’s friends, who told WESH 2′s Claire Metz that they were inside the house when he was shot, insist that he did not threaten or resist the deputy.

“That is completely a lie. I was there; I watched the whole thing. There was no advancement. There was no reaching for anything. The guy was wearing basketball shorts like I am. It’s kind of hard to conceal anything or hide anything when this is all you have o

this is the other account.

Who to believe?

 

[clownboy]

The most dangerous thing about Marijuana, is getting caught with it by police.


You take the police accounts word as gold. I've shown you in the other two stories I provided, they lie. and in this story, the "Advancing" is contradicted by eyewitness accounts.

and the basketball short kid, from our understanding of how it went down, he had no time to do anything but get face shot dead.


1. do you support swat raids for low level marijuana warrants?

2. what criteria do you believe should be met before a swat team is rolled?

No, the most dangerous thing about DEALING drugs is the fact that you are in danger of death and/or injury from either side of the equation.

And yes, I support SWAT raids against homes of dealers of illegal substances. It's rare that they aren't armed and paranoid about getting busted or stolen from, or just plain being killed by the competition.

The criteria:
Are they dealing drugs?
Are we certain we have the correct location?
Is it medical?

If the answers are yes, yes, no - roll SWAT.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Nope, what he was shot for was "advancing toward police". Under the circumstances that seems to be simply making any attempt to exit the building during a "raid". Since fear generates a (natural?) fight or flight reflex action it seems that either (natural?) reaction can be justification for use of deadly force.

He was standing at the door in his shorts, unarmed against at least 12 fully armed and armored men. When you go in with a SWAT team, you expect to shoot someone, and so they do. Everything looks like a nail to a hammer. There is absolutely zero reason to react to non-violence with this kind of force.

 

[clownboy]

btw:




this is the other account.

Who to believe?

Hmmm, whom to believe, the fellows hanging around with the drug dealer (and likely trying to avoid charges themselves) or the police. There's a no-brainer for you unless you're kneejerk anti-cop and/or a drug dealer yourself.

 

[clownboy]

He was standing at the door in his shorts, unarmed against at least 12 fully armed and armored men. When you go in with a SWAT team, you expect to shoot someone, and so they do. Everything looks like a nail to a hammer. There is absolutely zero reason to react to non-violence with this kind of force.

No, they don't "expect to shoot someone". They are trained and ready to shoot someone if necessary, but are planning to avoid that if possible. There is absolutely no positive outcome for them if they have to shoot someone.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

No, the most dangerous thing about DEALING drugs is the fact that you are in danger of death and/or injury from either side of the equation.

Nonsense, you are lumping marijuana in with hard drugs.

And yes, I support SWAT raids against homes of dealers of illegal substances. It's rare that they aren't armed and paranoid about getting busted or stolen from, or just plain killed by the competition.

This does not fit those who grow and sell marijuana such as this guy.

You support raids on guys like this, with no history of violence?

you support a statist society enforced by a police state.

That's not what I fought for my country for,.

The criteria:
Are they dealing drugs?
Are we certain we have the correct location?
Is it medical?

Why are you making exceptions for medical? it's still against federal law.


"history of violence" and "criminal record" are sadly also missing from your list.

If the answers are yes, yes, no - roll SWAT.

wow. just wow.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Hmmm, whom to believe, the fellows hanging around with the drug dealer (and likely trying to avoid charges themselves) or the police. There's a no-brainer for you unless you're kneejerk anti-cop and/or a drug dealer yourself.

more "cops are infallable" boot licking nonsense.


as I have shown in NUMEROUS threads. Cops do lie. they are human just like anyone else.



Also do you know the cop that shot the kid, had no swat training? he was just another wannabe warrior playing soilder on a bunch of sleeping hipster pot heads.


Do you think it's right, and responsible to have someone lacking the training involved in a raid?

 

[radcen]

Except they almost always are, but they aren't typically drawn and quartered as the anti-coppers want.

What is your definition of "held responsible"? As a minimum, but still significant.

 

[radcen]

He was standing at the door in his shorts, unarmed against at least 12 fully armed and armored men. When you go in with a SWAT team, you expect to shoot someone, and so they do. Everything looks like a nail to a hammer. There is absolutely zero reason to react to non-violence with this kind of force.

And this may be the biggest error... the decision to use said "hammer" to begin with when it's clearly overkill (no pun intended).

Prior to any action being taken, those in charge cannot use the excuse of circumstance to absolve themselves of their choices. Well, theoretically, anyway.

 

[radcen]

No, they don't "expect to shoot someone". They are trained and ready to shoot someone if necessary, but are planning to avoid that if possible. There is absolutely no positive outcome for them if they have to shoot someone.

...and all too often no negative outcome, either.

 

[clownboy]

Nonsense, you are lumping marijuana in with hard drugs.

Yes, because in this context there is NO difference. Pot dealers don't just deal pot and even if they did, once again they are most likely to be armed because BOTH sides of the equation are a danger to them, NOT just the police.

This does not fit those who grow and sell marijuana such as this guy.

You support raids on guys like this, with no history of violence?

Yes and it fits just fine. The reality is, regardless of the guy's record thus far, he may very well be working with a cartel or have changed his operation, or have recently been ripped off and thus armed himself. The possibilities the police have to prepare for are why SWAT is rolled in the first place.

you support a statist society enforced by a police state.

Yup, that I do. Of course you have to strip about a metric ton of hyperbolic crap from that statement first. I support a society where the rules are decided by the will of the people and their constitution and enforced by law enforcement officers working for said state.

That's not what I fought for my country for,.

Yes, yes it is.

Why are you making exceptions for medical? it's still against federal law.

Again, see my response to your silly statist comment.

"history of violence" and "criminal record" are sadly also missing from your list.

wow. just wow.

No, they aren't. The first can and does change at a moment's notice, especially considering the context of dealing. The second is just what you've managed to catch them doing thus far. The Are they dealing question answers that all by itself.

 

[clownboy]

more "cops are infallable" boot licking nonsense.

as I have shown in NUMEROUS threads. Cops do lie. they are human just like anyone else.

Also do you know the cop that shot the kid, had no swat training? he was just another wannabe warrior playing soilder on a bunch of sleeping hipster pot heads.

Do you think it's right, and responsible to have someone lacking the training involved in a raid?

So, now you've gone from not wanting SWAT to do the raids to only SWAT trained officers should do the raids? Which is it, which excuses your anti-cop attitude?

 

[clownboy]

...and all too often no negative outcome, either.

Wow. C'mon, even the people who know nothing about police or police procedure know that's just not so. Even when the shooting is clearly justified, the officer gives up their gun, goes through mandated psych, does a metric ton of paperwork, AND suffers under whatever public pressure is brought to bear by the anti-cop brigade. Do you think officer Wilson will ever be clear of the impact of his good shoot?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Yes, because in this context there is NO difference. Pot dealers don't just deal pot and even if they did, once again they are most likely to be armed because BOTH sides of the equation are a danger to them, NOT just the police.

You are ACTUALLY suggesting this kid was dealing in more than pot?


Also, haven't you noticed? most of my threads, THEY DONT EVEN FIND THE WEED!!!!!

Yes and it fits just fine. The reality is, regardless of the guy's record thus far, he may very well be working with a cartel or have changed his operation, or have recently been ripped off and thus armed himself. The possibilities the police have to prepare for are why SWAT is rolled in the first place.

yet the only one who had violence brought upon them was the victim.

This is bull****, by your logic, swat should be used for traffic enforcement,

Yup, that I do. Of course you have to strip about a metric ton of hyperbolic crap from that statement first. I support a society where the rules are decided by the will of the people and their constitution and enforced by law enforcement officers working for said state.

I'll strip it down for you, you support a police state, and feel no action the police do can be considered "wrong".

Yes, yes it is.

No, I didn't fight for my country so cops can play what I did for real on non violent civilians.


It's sick.

Again, see my response to your silly statist comment.

no, you are being a hypocrite.

Why are you making exceptions for medical? it's still against federal law.

oh wait, aren't you the one who has a "medical" license for weed? or was that someone else?

No, they aren't. The first can and does change at a moment's notice, especially considering the context of dealing. The second is just what you've managed to catch them doing thus far. The Are they dealing question answers that all by itself.

If one is that much of a ***** to think pot heads can turn violent at the drop of a hat, that person shouldn't be a cop.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

So, now you've gone from not wanting SWAT to do the raids to only SWAT trained officers should do the raids? Which is it, which excuses your anti-cop attitude?

The raid never should have happened, this raid, which killed a non violent college kid is further showing negligence by having an untrained dufus on the raid.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Wow. C'mon, even the people who know nothing about police or police procedure know that's just not so. Even when the shooting is clearly justified, the officer gives up their gun, goes through mandated psych, does a metric ton of paperwork, AND suffers under whatever public pressure is brought to bear by the anti-cop brigade. Do you think officer Wilson will ever be clear of the impact of his good shoot?

from the article:

So judging from the many, many prior incidents similar to this one, it’s probably safe to say that this officer will be cleared of any wrongdoing. It’s also probably safe to say that any investigation will determine that there’s nothing wrong with the police department’s warrant service policies. At least that’s how these investigations usually go. And if it is determined that the cops in these cases are following policy, and that there’s nothing wrong with the policies themselves, then the only conclusion we can draw is that the police agencies believe unarmed men getting shot in the face is an acceptable consequence of the effort to stop people from getting high on marijuana.



You agree with this.

 

[clownboy]

You are ACTUALLY suggesting this kid was dealing in more than pot?


Also, haven't you noticed? most of my threads, THEY DONT EVEN FIND THE WEED!!!!!

Gee that's nice and ignores most all of what you were responding to, getting the one point wrong. No, perhaps he wasn't. But the police serving the warrant have no good reason to believe he was "just" dealing pot. Even if he were, doesn't matter as the rest of my post explains.

yet the only one who had violence brought upon them was the victim.

Yep, except he's a victim of his own actions.

This is bull****, by your logic, swat should be used for traffic enforcement,

Where known drug dealers are involved they often are.

I'll strip it down for you, you support a police state, and feel no action the police do can be considered "wrong".

From your previous posts and their demonstrated lack of comprehension, you're not trustworthy enough to recap anything reliably, much less my posts. I was clear in what I posted. it says what I meant it to say. Your need to re-characterize and re-word demonstrates you can't let anything break your kneejerk "cops are bad" attitude.

And no, where have I ever posted that cops can do no wrong? Show your stuff.

No, I didn't fight for my country so cops can play what I did for real on non violent civilians.

Hah, there you go, change the goalposts and wrap everything into something else that doesn't at all resemble what happened here. In truth, I don't know why you served, I do however know why I served. And it wasn't to protect drug dealers from negative consequences.

It's sick.

Precisely how I feel about those who will pull out any stop to hate on cops.

no, you are being a hypocrite.

Why are you making exceptions for medical? it's still against federal law.

oh wait, aren't you the one who has a "medical" license for weed? or was that someone else?

Nope, never got my medical license for it, though I am eligible. Always figured I'd just pay the fine and never took it anywhere near federal land or states that have it fully criminalized.

It would only be hypocritical if you couldn't read, or didn't understand what you read. Go back and read what was actually posted.

If one is that much of a ***** to think pot heads can turn violent at the drop of a hat, that person shouldn't be a cop.

We're NOT talking about users here, we're talking about DEALERS.

And what the hell is wrong with just one space between paragraphs/points? You have to make every post two pages of white space?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

No, they don't "expect to shoot someone". They are trained and ready to shoot someone if necessary, but are planning to avoid that if possible. There is absolutely no positive outcome for them if they have to shoot someone.

If you're using them against people whose only offense is owning and selling plant matter, yes, you are expecting to shoot someone. It's a completely inappropriately proportioned reaction.

No Knock raids have become a very common reaction to a plethora of non-violent crimes other than dealing. Often they get the wrong house, babies are flashbanged, dogs are shot, and unarmed homeowners are gunned down. He was an unarmed half naked man who was shot when SWAT popped into his life to arrest him for owning the wrong plant. Jesus christ that is morally bankrupt.

In truth, I don't know why you served, I do however know why I served. And it wasn't to protect drug dealers from negative consequences.

Of course, anyone who sells an unlicensed plant deserves a bullet in the head.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Nope, never got my medical license for it, though I am eligible. Always figured I'd just pay the fine and never took it anywhere near federal land or states that have it fully criminalized.

wait, what? you are no better than what you think of those pot dealers you buy from. You, sir, are a raging hypocrite! By your own admission you think your "crime" is worth a fine, but the pothead hipsters crime is worthy of being shot in the face during a violent swat raid.


Lets say I was an admin here, and this is completely hypothetical, and I had your personal information and all that, If I tipped off the cops in your town, and you got swat raided, and they shot someone in your family, would you be here telling us how YOU deserved it and absolve the cops of any wrong doing?

Please to provide answer.

 

[clownboy]

If you're using them against people whose only offense is owning and selling plant matter, yes, you are expecting to shoot someone. It's a completely inappropriately proportioned reaction.

No Knock raids have become a very common reaction to a plethora of non-violent crimes other than dealing. Often they get the wrong house, babies are flashbanged, dogs are shot, and unarmed homeowners are gunned down. He was an unarmed half naked man who was shot when SWAT popped into his life to arrest him for owning the wrong plant. Jesus christ that is morally bankrupt.

No, it's not. The same could be said of heroin and opium dealers, that's just plant matter. It's not what they are selling, but that it's an illegal and dangerous business often protected by folks with firepower and a willingness to fight it out.

No, it's not morally bankrupt. It's a consequence to this dealer's chosen actions. A consequence that could have just as easily come from customers or fellow dealers, or competitors. The old saying applies, "can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

If you're using them against people whose only offense is owning and selling plant matter, yes, you are expecting to shoot someone. It's a completely inappropriately proportioned reaction.

No Knock raids have become a very common reaction to a plethora of non-violent crimes other than dealing. Often they get the wrong house, babies are flashbanged, dogs are shot, and unarmed homeowners are gunned down. He was an unarmed half naked man who was shot when SWAT popped into his life to arrest him for owning the wrong plant. Jesus christ that is morally bankrupt.



Of course, anyone who sells an unlicensed plant deserves a bullet in the head.

 

[clownboy]

wait, what? you are no better than what you think of those pot dealers you buy from. You, sir, are a raging hypocrite! By your own admission you think your "crime" is worth a fine, but the pothead hipsters crime is worthy of being shot in the face during a violent swat raid.


Lets say I was an admin here, and this is completely hypothetical, and I had your personal information and all that, If I tipped off the cops in your town, and you got swat raided, and they shot someone in your family, would you be here telling us how YOU deserved it and absolve the cops of any wrong doing?

Please to provide answer.

Pay attention. I have never been a dealer. You seem to have a real problem understanding there is a wide difference in law and reality between being an user and being a dealer. I worked as a citizen to shape our laws concerning both. My state decriminalized use long ago. And now, at least as of June, it's use is legal. So not only wouldn't it matter that you dimed me out before, now they'd just laugh at your ignorance (probably would have before too).

Btw, I don't buy from dealers, it's provided for me by a veteran's group that only does medical.