Angry at the unvaccinated? Here's a better way

[Threegoofs]

Why don't you take the time to enlighten the rest of us. I didn't see the word "incidental" in the article. Where did you come up with the term?

Patients admitted to the hospital with a positive COVID result, but not admitted for COVID or its complications.

It’s a standard medical term.I didnt invent it.

This is increasingly common with Omicron and fully vaccinated individuals, because….

People who are vaccinated spread the disease much less than those who are unvaccinated.

 

[Threegoofs]

Did you conveniently miss the point I have proved by using legitimate sourcing?

• A vaccine breakthrough infection happens when a fully vaccinated person gets infected with COVID-19. People with vaccine breakthrough infections may spread COVID-19 to others. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html

Why won't you discuss what people are saying? Why do you presume that a poster must discuss your deflection? I wasn't addressing incidental Covid. I was discussing the hordes of people with breakthrough covid infections that are in the hospital. I am addressing science that says people with breakthrough infection are spreading Covid. I am addressing and have proved that plenty from this group are becoming infected and occupying hospital beds.

Your point in bold would actually be valid if I hadn't already acknowledged the above fact. Give it up.

Got anything else but the usual trolling, tossing crap at the wall and hoping it sticks?

Vaccinated people with COVID are not getting admitted in large numbers to the hospital because of COVID.

Vaccinated people testing positive forCOVID are being increasingly seen in hospitals who do not express the disease in a manner that would lead to admission.

 

[Overitall]

Patients admitted to the hospital with a positive COVID result, but not admitted for COVID or its complications.

That's called "breakthrough" cases, not "incidental". Incidental might apply to those admitted for other reasons who tested positive. You just have a poor vocabulary, but that's ok.

It’s a standard medical term.I didnt invent it.

This is increasingly common with Omicron and fully vaccinated individuals, because….

People who are vaccinated spread the disease much less than those who are unvaccinated.

I don't know how you square this with the fact that the Omicron variant has proven to be able to work around the vaccines. The only data that's pertinent is hospitalization rates between the vaccinated and unvaccinated, but given the fact that the vast majority have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic and won't bother reporting whether they are vaccinated or not you really don't know how much the vaccinated are spreading it. Especially with home tests being on the rise you're really going to be in the dark. But here's the thing that people don't like to think about. When did you originally get vaccinated? For those who got it around last January do you really think you're protected still? If that was the case why a third shot (and now talk about a fourth)? Even those with a booster shot have limited protection. If not, why are the pharmaceuticals developing a booster shot specifically designed for Omicron? I submit that you and many others aren't as protected as you think you are. The best is to hope you're not in the group that have health issues.

 

[Threegoofs]

That's called "breakthrough" cases, not "incidental". Incidental might apply to those admitted for other reasons who tested positive. You just have a poor vocabulary, but that's ok.

I don't know how you square this with the fact that the Omicron variant has proven to be able to work around the vaccines. The only data that's pertinent is hospitalization rates between the vaccinated and unvaccinated, but given the fact that the vast majority have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic and won't bother reporting whether they are vaccinated or not you really don't know how much the vaccinated are spreading it. Especially with home tests being on the rise you're really going to be in the dark. But here's the thing that people don't like to think about. When did you originally get vaccinated? For those who got it around last January do you really think you're protected still? If that was the case why a third shot (and now talk about a fourth)? Even those with a booster shot have limited protection. If not, why are the pharmaceuticals developing a booster shot specifically designed for Omicron? I submit that you and many others aren't as protected as you think you are. The best is to hope you're not in the group that have health issues.

No. Incidental is related to hospital admissions - you admit someone for a STEMI, and they also test positive for COVID because its a standard screening test these days. Breakthrough cases are positive cases in any setting.

Again, I point this out because of the chronic avoidance of a simple fact, unvaxxed people spread COVID at muchgreater rates than vaxxed people. And vaxxed people have a much lower rate of infections and complications, whether they have underlying health issues or not.

It’s astounding you dont recognize those facts.

 

[Overitall]

No. Incidental is related to hospital admissions - you admit someone for a STEMI, and they also test positive for COVID because its a standard screening test these days. Breakthrough cases are positive cases in any setting.

Again, I point this out because of the chronic avoidance of a simple fact, unvaxxed people spread COVID at muchgreater rates than vaxxed people. And vaxxed people have a much lower rate of infections and complications, whether they have underlying health issues or not.

I don't see anyone denying that stat. Although I'm not sure the last part of your claim is accurate.

 

[danielpalos]

Angry at the unvaccinated? Here's a better way | CNN

You're furious at what you see as the selfishness and ignorance and lack of civic responsibility of the people in your life who refuse to get the jab. You try to convince them by explaining how wrongheaded they are, hoping browbeating will break them. But here's a question, write Peter Bregman...

www.cnn.com

As I keep saying, we can, the government can lead people to water, and so can all well meaning souls, but they can't nor should they demand they drink the water.
The authors of the article above explains why force, bullying, name-calling won't work. It's just good judgement and common sense that you dont.




Continued via the link above.

I agree to treat border jumpers the same as anti-vaxxers. Equality! Equal work for equal pay!

 

[Threegoofs]

I don't see anyone denying that stat. Although I'm not sure the last part of your claim is accurate.

Unvaxxed patients are clogging the ICUs and hospitals. It’s pretty much fact. Vaccinated people are not in the ICUs or dying, and in fact, of the handful that are, they are virtually all very, very sick people with multiple comobidities.

Unvaccinated people are much more likely to get covid, and therefore more likely to spread it. And unvaxxed who have COVID are sicker and are infectious much longer, therefore spreading more disease.

 

[Overitall]

Unvaxxed patients are clogging the ICUs and hospitals. It’s pretty much fact. Vaccinated people are not in the ICUs or dying, and in fact, of the handful that are, they are virtually all very, very sick people with multiple comobidities.

Unvaccinated people are much more likely to get covid, and therefore more likely to spread it. And unvaxxed who have COVID are sicker and are infectious much longer, therefore spreading more disease.

You're still referring to hospitalization cases while ignoring the vast majority of cases are those of asymptomatic or mild cases. Among them what do you really know about who's spreading the disease? It's been already stated by the experts that Omicron spreads even among the vaccinated. Remember the booster shot they are developing just for it?

 

[Threegoofs]

You're still referring to hospitalization cases while ignoring the vast majority of cases are those of asymptomatic or mild cases. Among them what do you really know about who's spreading the disease? It's been already stated by the experts that Omicron spreads even among the vaccinated. Remember the booster shot they are developing just for it?

What?

It’s clearly known that unvaxxed get COVID way more. Vaccines protect - not perfectly- but they definitely decrease disease.

So on a population level, unvaxxed are clearly spreading more disease. Much,much more.

And the unvaxxed have greater viral loads, have longer duration of symptoms, and are infectious for a longer period.

So on an individual level, unvaxxed are spreading more disease. Much more.

And if I were to speculate, unvaxxed (if they are voluntarily unvaccinated, which the vast majority are) are already showing they dont care about transmission. They are more likely to not use masks, care about social distancing, and move about in large crowds. Thus….. spreading more disease.

Yes, omicron can spread among vaccinated. But as people have no doubt told you many times… both Tom Brady and I can throw a football. But you might not get the analogy.

 

[Overitall]

What?

It’s clearly known that unvaxxed get COVID way more. Vaccines protect - not perfectly- but they definitely decrease disease.

What do they "protect" you from if you're vaccinated? This statement suggests you don't really know what you're talking about.

So on a population level, unvaxxed are clearly spreading more disease. Much,much more.

You don't know that. Omicron is highly contagious even among the vaccinated who can spread it around among each other.

And the unvaxxed have greater viral loads, have longer duration of symptoms, and are infectious for a longer period.

So on an individual level, unvaxxed are spreading more disease. Much more.

Maybe. You don't know for sure. Why have you ignored my points about the ineffectiveness of booster shots against Omicron?

And if I were to speculate, unvaxxed (if they are voluntarily unvaccinated, which the vast majority are) are already showing they dont care about transmission. They are more likely to not use masks, care about social distancing, and move about in large crowds. Thus….. spreading more disease.

Yes, omicron can spread among vaccinated. But as people have no doubt told you many times… both Tom Brady and I can throw a football. But you might not get the analogy.

You didn't score a touchdown pass.

 

[American]

You literally refuse to accept it.

Legitimate sources? Some sketchy online newspaper and a newspaper that literally contradicts your assertion in the article.

Instances? You’re own source says 60%!

The basic fact that you won’t accept or even acknowledge is this:

Unvaccinated people are spreading the virus at a much greater rate than vaccinated people.

How do you know that?

 

[American]

What?

It’s clearly known that unvaxxed get COVID way more. Vaccines protect - not perfectly- but they definitely decrease disease.

So on a population level, unvaxxed are clearly spreading more disease. Much,much more.

And the unvaxxed have greater viral loads, have longer duration of symptoms, and are infectious for a longer period.

So on an individual level, unvaxxed are spreading more disease. Much more.

And if I were to speculate, unvaxxed (if they are voluntarily unvaccinated, which the vast majority are) are already showing they dont care about transmission. They are more likely to not use masks, care about social distancing, and move about in large crowds. Thus….. spreading more disease.

Yes, omicron can spread among vaccinated. But as people have no doubt told you many times… both Tom Brady and I can throw a football. But you might not get the analogy.

My gf got Covid twice, one before vaxing, and once after; the second time worse than the first. So much for your assertions. I got Covid after vaxxing. So I guess you don't know anything but talking points.

 

[Threegoofs]

How do you know that?

Know… what, exactly?

You mean the basic fact that unvaccinated spread more disease?

I kinda just outlined it…what don’t you understand?

 

[American]

Know… what, exactly?

You mean the basic fact that unvaccinated spread more disease?

I kinda just outlined it…what don’t you understand?

Sovereign Wealth Fund Institute - SWFI

Where institutional investors and companies get their research and stay on top of actionable news.

www.swfinstitute.org

You realize it doesn't pass the common sense test, since they're pushing boosters. So the efficacy of the vaccine drops significantly after supposedly 6 months, meaning vaxxed people can now spread plenty of virus based on your assertions about the unvaxxed. Don't bring me your fact checkers, because they aren't worth spit since they are humans just like regular journalists. There is zero reason to believe factcheckers any more than any other journalist. And then there's the whole question of immunity that the CDC, FDA and any other health organization don't want to talk about. Everyone is pushing vaccination like they own stocks in the companies. And btw NO other treatments are allowed.

 

[Threegoofs]

Sovereign Wealth Fund Institute - SWFI

Where institutional investors and companies get their research and stay on top of actionable news.

www.swfinstitute.org

You realize it doesn't pass the common sense test, since they're pushing boosters. So the efficacy of the vaccine drops significantly after supposedly 6 months, meaning vaxxed people can now spread plenty of virus based on your assertions about the unvaxxed. Don't bring me your fact checkers, because they aren't worth spit since they are humans just like regular journalists. There is zero reason to believe factcheckers any more than any other journalist. And then there's the whole question of immunity that the CDC, FDA and any other health organization don't want to talk about. Everyone is pushing vaccination like they own stocks in the companies. And btw NO other treatments are allowed.

Do the vaccines have efficacy in limiting disease?

Yes. Unequivocally.

Is it 99%? No. Is it 60%+? Definitely.

That alone tells you unvaccinated people spread more disease.

If you understand how pandemics work, you understand that small reductions in risk early on lead yo large reductions in spread later, because of the exponential spread. That might be a little advanced for ya tho.

Moreover, when someone GETS COVID and is vaccinated, they tend to clear it more quickly and have a smaller viral load (although studies are conflicting on VL), shortening the period of infectiousness substantially.

In other words, they spread less disease.

This isn’t just speculation.

Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully...

www.thelancet.com

 

[snakestretcher]

That's the key, there is no source. There is no monitoring of vaccine recipients.

Yes there is:

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

The part which says "Monitoring Covid-19 Vaccine Effectiveness' might help give you a clue.
There's also this:

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)

vaers.hhs.gov

 

[screenwriter]

So, in the absence of a sensible response all you can manage is "meaningless"? How do you think we got to that number if it wasn't reported?

Yes there is:

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

The part which says "Monitoring Covid-19 Vaccine Effectiveness' might help give you a clue.
There's also this:

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)

vaers.hhs.gov

Uh, the statement wasn't about monitoring vaccine effectiveness - it was about monitoring the recipient for adverse reactions.

 

[snakestretcher]

Uh, the statement wasn't about monitoring vaccine effectiveness - it was about monitoring the recipient for adverse reactions.

That's the role of VAERS; to collect data on reports of adverse reactions. And CDC monitors vaccine effectiveness, as I linked to.

 

[screenwriter]

And the unvaxxed have greater viral loads, have longer duration of symptoms, and are infectious for a longer period.

So on an individual level, unvaxxed are spreading more disease. Much more.

The viral load of a vaccinated person and unvaccinated person are the same.

 

[Ginger Ale]

You're still referring to hospitalization cases while ignoring the vast majority of cases are those of asymptomatic or mild cases. Among them what do you really know about who's spreading the disease? It's been already stated by the experts that Omicron spreads even among the vaccinated. Remember the booster shot they are developing just for it?

Look at who's dying from Covid, that may clear it up.

 

[snakestretcher]

The viral load of a vaccinated person and unvaccinated person are the same.

Yes, and? The clear difference being that a vaccinated person is far less likely to end up in ICU and dead. It may not matter to you, but for most normal people gambling with a potentially killer disease isn't an attractive option.

 

[screenwriter]

That's the role of VAERS; to collect data on reports of adverse reactions. And CDC monitors vaccine effectiveness, as I linked to.

Tell you what, you go up in that little search box up on the top right hand corner and type in VAERS and see just how credible that system is viewed just on this platform.

Also, to consider, VAERS has nothing to do with a recipient being monitored by a medical profession for adverse reactions as they would be in a legitimate clinical trial.

 

[screenwriter]

Yes, and? The clear difference being that a vaccinated person is far less likely to end up in ICU and dead. It may not matter to you, but for most normal people gambling with a potentially killer disease isn't an attractive option.

So? That wasn't the content and context of the post either.

 

[snakestretcher]

Tell you what, you go up in that little search box up on the top right hand corner and type in VAERS and see just how credible that system is viewed just on this platform.

Also, to consider, VAERS has nothing to do with a recipient being monitored by a medical profession for adverse reactions as they would be in a legitimate clinical trial.

CDC does the monitoring upon receipt of data submitted by clinical professionals. I provide a link, below, just for you. And yes, VAERS clearly states that any adverse reports are not to be trusted for accuracy-except those submitted by clinical professionals for whom false reporting is a criminal offence. Again...

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Ginger Ale]

The states that have mask mandates, and vaccine mandates will probably see a reduction in Omicron rather quickly, like NY is seeing, there's no place for it to go. If it has no where to go then it will die out.

The states where people aren't masked, and have low vaccination will have a lot longer of a spread cycle, it might even go into previous Omicron immunity reduction if it's long enough. So, In America it will become really evident what these precautions do and don't do in the future. Also giving more time for new variant that will dominate Omicron to develop.

Unvaccinated have symptoms longer, and spread more, un masked individuals also promote spread at a higher particle rate. Those not masked or vaccinated will contribute to new dominant variants, and keep this pandemic going longer. It's not hard to understand, but it is hard to get people to care about this, so, there will continue to be some animosity toward those who don't care from those who do. I don't see how there could not be. It's frustrating.