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An example of Feminazi in action

If that were the case than the only restriction would be to have a penis. But it's not. The restrictions are based on realities of the job.
No, it isn't, that's the point. It's based on how a man thinks it needs to be done. It's not science, or even rational thought necessarily, it's heroism and balls.
 
No, it isn't, that's the point. It's based on how a man thinks it needs to be done. It's not science, or even rational thought necessarily, it's heroism and balls.

So we have a job that requires significant physical effort and will often bring the employee into dangerous situations in which they may be required in life or death situations to try to save people. So your argument is that this is some grand conspiracy of men against women to keep them out of such jobs. Wherein I say they requirements developed and evolved overtime in response to the stresses and requirements of the job.

So some grand conspiracy or evolution? All things being equal, the latter seems well more likely. Your point, BTW, isn't a point, it's an opinion. Less you can back it with data.
 
So we have a job that requires significant physical effort and will often bring the employee into dangerous situations in which they may be required in life or death situations to try to save people. So your argument is that this is some grand conspiracy of men against women to keep them out of such jobs. Wherein I say they requirements developed and evolved overtime in response to the stresses and requirements of the job.

So some grand conspiracy or evolution? All things being equal, the latter seems well more likely. Your point, BTW, isn't a point, it's an opinion. Less you can back it with data.
You believe the requirements are based upon the realities of the job, and I do not, and even if they were simply because we designed them for men of unusual strength and ability doesn't mean we designed them correctly. That usually means the exact opposite? Anyone should be able to put out a fire or save a life but the hero crap got in the way. As I said, it's great TV but not reality, and not what it should be.

If you can back up your claims, feel free. I'm perfectly fine stating the opinion that if the job can only be done by the strongest of men, it needs to be redesigned and that includes for women.
 
You believe the requirements are based upon the realities of the job, and I do not, and even if they were simply because we designed them for men of unusual strength and ability doesn't mean we designed them correctly. That usually means the exact opposite? Anyone should be able to put out a fire or save a life but the hero crap got in the way. As I said, it's great TV but not reality, and not what it should be.

If you can back up your claims, feel free. I'm perfectly fine stating the opinion that if the job can only be done by the strongest of men, it needs to be redesigned and that includes for women.

If you want to change the requirements, you need to prove the requirements need to be changed. And a "it's all the penis's fault!" isn't argument. It's just hysteria. Not everyone CAN put out a fire or save a life. That's really the issue at hand. And in the history of fire departments and firemen, the rules and regulations were written to reflect the job.

Your imaginary world of fire fighting being as simple as addition doesn't pan out in reality.

I wonder how many more penis conspiracies are out there. Is science under a big penis conspiracy? Did it team up to make math harder for women in order to keep them out of science? Should women be allowed in science even if they cannot meet the existing standards for math knowledge? Is it all the fault of the penis?

My god, think of how great this world would be if not for the penis!
 
My god, think of how great this world would be if not for the penis!
I can't say about great but it would be mostly peaceful.

And if history is your judge, no black man would ever be President since they were Property. Those were rules then, now we have different ones. And can anyone put out a fire or save a life? I believe they can, with tools, training, and good timing. That's usually what it takes.
 
I can't say about great but it would be mostly peaceful.

And if history is your judge, no black man would ever be President since they were Property. Those were rules then, now we have different ones. And can anyone put out a fire or save a life? I believe they can, with tools, training, and good timing. That's usually what it takes.

History does tell many things, but it doesn't mean we must keep the status quo. We had slavery, but someone didn't just run up and start crying about how the penis has enslaved mankind. An actual argument was presented and it relied on the rights and liberties of the individual. It's not quite the same as the necessary requirements for becoming a fireman. Not only is slavery and firefighter standards not equivalent, you don't even have proper argument for repealing requirements on physically intensive jobs. Penis Did It, that's pretty much your argument.

So anyone can become a fireman, does that mean we should have no standards? I mean, I could be a fireman, right? Being out of shape with two bum knees, but that's OK cause anyone can do it. Can anyone become a scientist? Can anyone become a surgeon? Can anyone be a linebacker? Why have requirements for anything?
 
History does tell many things, but it doesn't mean we must keep the status quo. We had slavery, but someone didn't just run up and start crying about how the penis has enslaved mankind. An actual argument was presented and it relied on the rights and liberties of the individual. It's not quite the same as the necessary requirements for becoming a fireman. Not only is slavery and firefighter standards not equivalent, you don't even have proper argument for repealing requirements on physically intensive jobs. Penis Did It, that's pretty much your argument.

So anyone can become a fireman, does that mean we should have no standards? I mean, I could be a fireman, right? Being out of shape with two bum knees, but that's OK cause anyone can do it. Can anyone become a scientist? Can anyone become a surgeon? Can anyone be a linebacker? Why have requirements for anything?
You can have requirements, you just have to make sure they are valid. not sexist or historical. The requirements in this case were written by Fire-men. That's not a good to start to making sure they are truly rational.

Tell me, could you fight a war with only women, if you planned for that? I believe that you could, and I believe that you could fight a fire as well eh?
 
You can have requirements, you just have to make sure they are valid. not sexist or historical. The requirements in this case were written by Fire-men. That's not a good to start to making sure they are truly rational.

The fact that the requirements were written by government to set minimum requirements to fulfill the job does not mean that it's some sexist conspiracy orchestrated by the penis to enslave all.

Tell me, could you fight a war with only women, if you planned for that? I believe that you could, and I believe that you could fight a fire as well eh?

Depends on who I'm fighting and what I have at my disposal. Hand to hand? Probably not. Mecha, maybe.

What about everything else I asked? Can anyone become a scientist? Can anyone become a surgeon? Can anyone be a linebacker?
 
If you want to change the requirements, you need to prove the requirements need to be changed. And a "it's all the penis's fault!" isn't argument. It's just hysteria. Not everyone CAN put out a fire or save a life. That's really the issue at hand. And in the history of fire departments and firemen, the rules and regulations were written to reflect the job.

Your imaginary world of fire fighting being as simple as addition doesn't pan out in reality.

I wonder how many more penis conspiracies are out there. Is science under a big penis conspiracy? Did it team up to make math harder for women in order to keep them out of science? Should women be allowed in science even if they cannot meet the existing standards for math knowledge? Is it all the fault of the penis?

My god, think of how great this world would be if not for the penis!

You win the prize for using the most "penis's" (???) in a post. :)
 
The fact that the requirements were written by government to set minimum requirements to fulfill the job does not mean that it's some sexist conspiracy orchestrated by the penis to enslave all.



Depends on who I'm fighting and what I have at my disposal. Hand to hand? Probably not. Mecha, maybe.

What about everything else I asked? Can anyone become a scientist? Can anyone become a surgeon? Can anyone be a linebacker?
Yes, yes, and yes, but not necessarily a good one. You seem to be hung up on the penis thing? Most men are, as I suggested, and that makes them biased. It's not a Global Conspiracy, it's more hero crap and biology, but it does get in the way, often. I believe it does in this case as well. If the average woman can put a 10-year-old over her knee she can run into a burning building and put one over her shoulder and carry them to safety, and then put out the damn fire. That is more than enough, more than we should expect.
 
Yes, yes, and yes, but not necessarily a good one. You seem to be hung up on the penis thing? Most men are, as I suggested, and that makes them biased. It's not a Global Conspiracy, it's more hero crap and biology, but it does get in the way, often. I believe it does in this case as well. If the average woman can put a 10-year-old over her knee she can run into a burning building and put one over her shoulder and carry them to safety, and then put out the damn fire. That is more than enough, more than we should expect.

Not everyone can be a scientist, some people just aren't smart enough. Not everyone can be a surgeon, not everyone has the necessary skills or intelligence. Not everyone can be a linebacker, not everyone has the skills and size. That's the honest answer. And I don't want "bad". I'm not looking to make bad firefighters.

And your example is garbage. I can fireman carry a 10-year old. But not everyone in a fire is a 10 year old kid! You have to be prepared for the situations you could encounter in a fire. Fires don't just seek out little kids and trap them. You may have to move debris to get to someone or to get to the part of the building necessary to create the largest chance of putting out the fire. You may have to tear down roofs and doors and walls while in a fire. You may have to rescue an ADULT. Every firefighter needs to be able to demonstrate these abilities. I am ok with anyone who can demonstrate that they meet the established requirements being a firefighter. If a chick can pull me out of a blaze, then so be it. But to pretend that it's all 10 year old kids and skipping through a burning building without any obstacle is absurd and disingenuous.
 
Not everyone can be a scientist, some people just aren't smart enough. Not everyone can be a surgeon, not everyone has the necessary skills or intelligence. Not everyone can be a linebacker, not everyone has the skills and size. That's the honest answer. And I don't want "bad". I'm not looking to make bad firefighters.

And your example is garbage. I can fireman carry a 10-year old. But not everyone in a fire is a 10 year old kid! You have to be prepared for the situations you could encounter in a fire. Fires don't just seek out little kids and trap them. You may have to move debris to get to someone or to get to the part of the building necessary to create the largest chance of putting out the fire. You may have to tear down roofs and doors and walls while in a fire. You may have to rescue an ADULT. Every firefighter needs to be able to demonstrate these abilities. I am ok with anyone who can demonstrate that they meet the established requirements being a firefighter. If a chick can pull me out of a blaze, then so be it. But to pretend that it's all 10 year old kids and skipping through a burning building without any obstacle is absurd and disingenuous.
This is what I'm trying to get across. The only people I would ever ask anyone to run into a building to rescue are children, young children. It's the hero crap again to expect another human being to run into a building to rescue you. The job has been designed incorrectly, by men, who like to play the hero. Rescue the little guys and put out the fire, that's more than enough. If you are 300 pounds at best you will be dragged out and it's nonsense to expect to be so.

And anyone can be any of those things, they just might not play at the level you are thinking of, therefore the problem. You don't have to be a wiz to be a scientist, you have to think like a scientist. You don't have to be a genius to be a surgeon if all you do are simple surgeries you've been trained to do, and you can be a linebacker and small but you won't get paid by the NFL.

You are hung up on the existing criteria without being able to see that it was set in a biased way by biased people. If the NFL was made up of midgets, your linebacker couldn't make the cut either but that wouldn't mean that the criteria was created in a rational way so he's just stuck being a garbageman. Notice the "man" part, that's the penis at work.
 
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This is what I'm trying to get across. The only people I would ever ask anyone to run into a building to rescue are children, young children. It's the hero crap again to expect another human being to run into a building to rescue you. The job has been designed incorrectly, by men, who like to play the hero. Rescue the little guys and put out the fire, that's more than enough. If you are 300 pounds at best you will be dragged out and it's nonsense to expect to be so.

It's not designed incorrectly. Firefighters are trained to save lives. And they will do their damndest to do it, and they need to demonstrate that they can.

And anyone can be any of those things, they just might not play at the level you are thinking of, therefore the problem. You don't have to be a wiz to be a scientist, you have to think like a scientist. You don't have to be a genius to be a surgeon if all you do are simple surgeries you've been trained to do, and you can be a linebacker and small but you won't get paid by the NFL. You are hung up on the existing criteria without being able to see that it was set in a biased way by biased people. If the NFL was made up of midgets, your linebacker couldn't make the cut either but that wouldn't mean that they criteria was created in a rational way so he's just stuck being a garbageman. Notice the "man" part, that's the penis at work.

No, therein lies YOUR problem. I'm not looking for a Pee Wee league firefighter, I'm looking for the majors. Firefighters are professionals, and they need to perform at professional level. Not training to just skip through a fire to rescue a kid; but to be prepared for what they may find in a burning house and to be able to respond to dynamic and physically intensive environments. That's the job. So now you want to change the job, move it from the MLB to single A, to allow more women to get in. But that's not the job, that's not reality, and that is why you fail.
 
It's not designed incorrectly. Firefighters are trained to save lives. And they will do their damndest to do it, and they need to demonstrate that they can.



No, therein lies YOUR problem. I'm not looking for a Pee Wee league firefighter, I'm looking for the majors. Firefighters are professionals, and they need to perform at professional level. Not training to just skip through a fire to rescue a kid; but to be prepared for what they may find in a burning house and to be able to respond to dynamic and physically intensive environments. That's the job. So now you want to change the job, move it from the MLB to single A, to allow more women to get in. But that's not the job, that's not reality, and that is why you fail.
The job was created by men for men, and they like to play the hero. There are other ways to do the job, and most lifesaving is done by people who would never run into a burning building. What I'm telling you is, they shouldn't do that either but they do so they said you have to be big, and strong, and oddly enough, almost without exception male to do this. Go to a firehouse and check out the accommodations. It's a frat house, and they always assumed it would be. The job is just too tough for those little panty-wearing people to do they said, but it isn't if you look at it Rationally. Then it's just a job, training, tools, and common sense, something men are not known for which is why they run into burning buildings!
 
The job was created by men for men, and they like to play the hero. There are other ways to do the job, and most lifesaving is done by people who would never run into a burning building. What I'm telling you is, they shouldn't do that either but they do so they said you have to be big, and strong, and oddly enough, almost without exception male to do this. Go to a firehouse and check out the accommodations. It's a frat house, and they always assumed it would be. The job is just too tough for those little panty-wearing people to do they said, but it isn't if you look at it Rationally. Then it's just a job, training, tools, and common sense, something men are not known for which is why they run into burning buildings!

This is just your assumptions about what a job should be that doesn't mesh with the reality of what the job is.
 
This is just your assumptions about what a job should be that doesn't mesh with the reality of what the job is.
You actually have that backwards. You are defending that status quo. I am saying look at the job Rationally, not Historically, and that hasn't been done. Historically there were no women so of course the standard excluded nearly all of them. It excluded most men as well. That's not rational, just historical and traditional. Changing the job so a woman can do it is perfectly fine, like adjusting the toilet on the Space Shuttle. Just because it was always boys peeing into the hose doesn't mean that's as it should be, it just was that way so that is the standard and the standard is biased.

You don't need a penis to put out a fire but it's mighty fun to try eh?
 
You actually have that backwards. You are defending that status quo. I am saying look at the job Rationally, not Historically, and that hasn't been done. Historically there were no women so of course the standard excluded nearly all of them. It excluded most men as well. That's not rational, just historical and traditional. Changing the job so a woman can do it is perfectly fine, like adjusting the toilet on the Space Shuttle. Just because it was always boys peeing into the hose doesn't mean that's as it should be, it just was that way so that is the standard and the standard is biased.

You don't need a penis to put out a fire but it's mighty fun to try eh?

You don't need a penis, for sure. But you do need physical strength, endurance, and the ability to demonstrate you can perform the job to the established standards.
 
You don't need a penis, for sure. But you do need physical strength, endurance, and the ability to demonstrate you can perform the job to the established standards.
And who established those standards? Scientists? Accountants? A group of both men and women?
 
And who established those standards? Scientists? Accountants? A group of both men and women?

People running into buildings, encountering these dynamic, dangerous, and physically exhausting environments, watching their buddies die, and figuring out what needs to be done and what one must have to accomplish it.
 
People running into buildings, encountering these dynamic, dangerous, and physically exhausting environments, watching their buddies die, and figuring out what needs to be done and what one must have to accomplish it.
A group of big, tough men who like to play heroes. They wrote the specs for the gear and the physical standards. It's a boys club so it's no surprise that's what they standards are. And while they may be traditional, that doesn't mean that they are correct or entirely incorrect, it means they were written by men for men based on the ideas of men, which means they are biased towards men. They are therefore open to being looked at just as much as you don't need to be a Garbage-man now, the lift on the truck does the work for you if you have the modern garbage can.
 
A group of big, tough men who like to play heroes. They wrote the specs for the gear and the physical standards. It's a boys club so it's no surprise that's what they standards are. And while they may be traditional, that doesn't mean that they are correct or entirely incorrect, it means they were written by men for men based on the ideas of men, which means they are biased towards men. They are therefore open to being looked at just as much as you don't need to be a Garbage-man now, the lift on the truck does the work for you if you have the modern garbage can.

Yeah, because if I was going to make some form of boys club, I would certainly do it by running into burning buildings and saving people.
 
Yeah, because if I was going to make some form of boys club, I would certainly do it by running into burning buildings and saving people.
So would I. Anyone with common sense runs Out of burning buildings, not In.
 
So would I. Anyone with common sense runs Out of burning buildings, not In.

Firefighting is not a sane job. Yes it is insane to run into a burning building. It’s also insane to get between two people that are fighting. It’s insane to charge an up a hill with bullets flying at you. It’s insane to chase people that are speeding. It’s insane to try and rescue people from their own stupidity. It’s insane to test experimental aircraft. It’s insane to test experimental drugs. It's insane to run for political office. It's insane to swim with sharks. It's insane to go out in a small boat to fish. It’s insane to jump out of aircraft. It's insane to tame lions. It's insane to watch others chidren all day and try and teach them. Its insane to infiltrate the Mob. It’s insane to do a lot of jobs, and those jobs are ones that most people don't want to do and that is why people get paid to do them.
If firefighting was only bucket carriers that put water on fires and that was all they were expected to ever do then yes the job would be very different. But it also wouldn't be a job, as ANYONE at hand would just be expected to do it. Most people despite not being firefighters can operate a fire extinguisher, possibly even a high pressure fire hose.
Firefighters are expected to do alot more then just put water on housefires. It’s the same with police. Anyone can get a gun and point it at the "bad guys" but police are a lot more than that. Some of it is the "Hero" thing but if it was just the safe stuff there would be no firefighting job at all.
 
I use that term time to time when we're discussing feminism. . .and I always state something like "while I am a feminist, feminazism irritates me" . . . and people go 'hunh?' - Because it doesn't make sense.

Only when you find a good example can you explain yourself.

My good example: Authoring guidelines for a feminist publishing company. Writers Guidelines

As if declaring themselves to be 'strong feminists' isn't enough - they took every word that has 'his' or 'men' and changed it to be feminine sounding.

"Womyn"
"Herstory"
"Writehers"

That - isn't cute, clever, snazzy, or cool. That - is just annoying. I won't be publishing any of my works with a supposed publishing company who plays with words to that annoying degree when claiming I, as a writer, need to be vigilant.

It would be equally annoying if a male minded website wrote "wethim" and so on.

Some of that nonsense has started to invade Spanish too. You will now see a huge proliferation of the @ sign in Spanish writing, especially in government texts. As you probably know, most masculine words in Spanish end in 'e' or 'o' and feminine words in 'a'. The general convention, no doubt one born of sexism, is that the plural takes the male form such that 'perro' means dog, 'perra' means bitch/female dog and 'perros' means dogs plural. Now we are meant to write 'perr@s'.

The new orthodoxy covers almost everything, certainly all living things, so you now see this ugly little symbol, which can't decide whether it's upper- or lower-case, which sits towards the end of a word like a cow pat on a wedding dress, everywhere. To me it's more unsightly than a wind farm. Teachers are now 'profesor@s', company boards are composed of 'director@s', TV is filled with 'presentador@s' and 'músic@s', 'bailaor@s' and 'cómic@s'. You now receive circulars from the town hall beginning, "Estimad@s Compañer@s". I don't know anyone who doesn't find it annoying and ugly, but its use is increasing month by month, year by year.
 
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