An article about Trans studies...

[Renae]

Children are not mature enough to make life altering decisions.
Children are easily manipulated.

Why people think transitioning children is okay is astounding to me.

 

[BrotherFease]

Children are not mature enough to make life altering decisions.
Children are easily manipulated.

Why people think transitioning children is okay is astounding to me.

Do you mean social or medical transition or both? The article is against people transitioning period, regardless of age group.

 

[Lisa]

Children are not mature enough to make life altering decisions.
Children are easily manipulated.

Why people think transitioning children is okay is astounding to me.

You know full well nobody transitions anyone again their will and children are not transitioning. It is teens living who they are under the care of Drs and psychologists. The evidence of very clear that when a teen(over the age of 14) is still exhibiting sings of incongruent gender identity and starting to show signs of dysphoria they do not detransition at more than a 5% rate(95% success rate). This is very hypocritical of you to support, if you are trans. The quality of their life and mental health is greatly improved if they transition as teens instead if waiting until their 20s or even later when the gender dysphoria is more severe and the body matured in the wrong gender.

Were you pushed to transition against your will? Do you have regrets about your transition? From where I sit you have a lot of internalized transphobia and you don't seem to be very happy or self-confident.

 

[Renae]

You know full well nobody transitions anyone again their will and children are not transitioning. It is teens living who they are under the care of Drs and psychologists. The evidence of very clear that when a teen(over the age of 14) is still exhibiting sings of incongruent gender identity and starting to show signs of dysphoria they do not detransition at more than a 5% rate(95% success rate). This is very hypocritical of you to support, if you are trans. The quality of their life and mental health is greatly improved if they transition as teens instead if waiting until their 20s or even later when the gender dysphoria is more severe and the body matured in the wrong gender.

Were you pushed to transition against your will? Do you have regrets about your transition? From where I sit you have a lot of internalized transphobia and you don't seem to be very happy or self-confident.

You know full well children go through phases and it doesn't take much to coerce a child into something.

 

[Lisa]

You know full well children go through phases and it doesn't take much to coerce a child into something.

This is why there are psychologists and Drs. You seem to thnink that they hand out hormones and anti-androgens to any teen who asks without an interview, counseling and a detailed history. You know that is not true.

You also know how stressful it was to even make an apportionment with a Dr or therapist to start the process for HRT and to admit to yourself and others that you have trans feelings. The facts do not bear out the claim that trans people transition at a greater than 5-10% rate for any reason. Nobody is pushing anyone. You wee there and you know the the process works. You should be immune to the conservative lies that supposed trans activists. Nobody forced or even pushed you to take anything or do anything. The fact that they were LGBT supportive doesn't mean that you were coerced.

 

[buck]

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Gay clinicians at GIDS began to discuss how they had experienced an adolescent phase of gender dysphoria as “effeminate” boys or “butch” girls. Spiliadis says that trans clinicians were revered for having superior insight and authority, but the testimony of gay staff was dismissed as irrelevant, even transphobic. “So we formed a thinking group and said to management, ‘We are medicalising some people who would later identify as lesbian, gay and bisexual, not trans.’ ” How did Carmichael react? “I was repeatedly told by Polly to stop asking questions. Anyone who challenged the status quo and tried to think about complexity was perceived as the problem and scapegoated.”

Gids was a mess, as are many clinics in the US. To think that they aren't handing out hormones and blockers to kids "as if they were candy", most kids dont desist after puberty and an explosion in the numbers and swapping of the sexes is unimportant... is deluded thinking. There are even examples in some of the literature ive posted... such as an overweight child with uncontrolled bipolar disorder recieving "teetus deletus" after a very short period of time.

 

[Lisa]

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Gids was a mess, as are many clinics in the US. To think that they aren't handing out hormones and blockers to kids "as if they were candy", most kids dont desist after puberty and an explosion in the numbers and swapping of the sexes is unimportant... is deluded thinking. There are even examples in some of the literature ive posted... such as an overweight child with uncontrolled bipolar disorder recieving "teetus deletus" after a very short period of time.

Janice Turner has a very obvious transphobic bias. That is why your sources quote her.

Turner is known for her columns about transgender people,[12] including "Children sacrificed to appease trans lobby",[13] "The battle over gender has turned bloody",[14] and "Trans rapists are a danger in women’s jails".[15] Helen Belcher, co-founder of Trans Media Watch, condemned Turner's columns, writing that Turner painted trans people as "dangerous sex offenders" and linking Times columns such as Turner's to trans teen suicides.[16][17][18] Turner condemned Belcher's comments,[19] calling them "ghastly" and "libelous".[16] The Times defended Turner, writing that "Concerns of biological women must not be silenced".[20]

In 2019, Turner tweeted that trans model and activist Munroe Bergdorf was unfit to be an ambassador for Childline because Bergdorf was a "porn model" who had posed for Playboy. Bergdorf denied ever participating in porn, and stated it was wrong to demonize persons that do in any case.[21]

The times UK has a conservative bias. There is a reason why the UK is known as TERF island.

These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appeals to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information but may require further investigation. See all Right-Center sources.

• Overall, we rate The Times and Sunday Times right-center biased based on story selection and editorial positions that favor the right and High for factual reporting due to a clean fact check record.

The Times UK and The Sunday Times - Bias and Credibility

RIGHT-CENTER BIAS These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[buck]

Janice Turner has a very obvious transphobic bias. That is why your sources quote her.


The times UK has a conservative bias. There is a reason why the UK is known as TERF island.

The Times UK and The Sunday Times - Bias and Credibility

RIGHT-CENTER BIAS These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words

mediabiasfactcheck.com

Yes. "Right center" with a "high" level of "factual reporting". Two things I'm sure you hate.

First hand accounts from workers at gids. Can't trust them.. obviously.

 

[CLAX1911]

Transgender people, constantly under attack by right wing bigots, ostracized, outcast, ridiculed, literally assaulted in bathrooms, suffer from more depression and suicide?

You don't ****in say.

Not transgender people, trans activists. Some of them are fakers (non binary) others are just trying to use trans people to virtue signal.

Suicide if trans people likely has to do more with trying to be something they can never be.

 

[CLAX1911]

Janice Turner has a very obvious transphobic bias. That is why your sources quote her.


The times UK has a conservative bias. There is a reason why the UK is known as TERF island.

The Times UK and The Sunday Times - Bias and Credibility

RIGHT-CENTER BIAS These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words

mediabiasfactcheck.com

You think radical feminists are consecutive? That Overton window didn't just shift it moved light-years away

 

[roguenuke]

If I don't believe an 18 year old can handle assault weapons without training, why should I believe a child can handle permanent changes to their body? It's not that I am trying to belittle how children feel but I think they need to grow as a person into an adult without taking irreversible procedures first.

Dancing and sports cause permanent damage to children's bodies all the time.

Long Term Effects Of Ballet On The Body (And What You Can Do) - Workout HQ

Many of the long-term effects of ballet on the body are positive and we cover those too. But the important ones are negative. Luckily, you can prevent...

workouthq.org

Playing high school football changes the teenage brain

A single season of high school football may be enough to cause microscopic changes in the structure of the brain, according to a new study by researchers at UC Berkeley, Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Magnetic ...

news.berkeley.edu

If children are not only allowed to make the decision to become dancers, pianists, play in sports, etc at those young ages (to become a professional dancer and play most professional sports, a child has to start very young), which absolutely does do permanent damage to their body, then they should certainly be allowed to make those decisions at the ages that the decisions for transitioning decisions are made if they are being recommended, advised by trained healthcare professionals.

I can agree that they should not be allowed to make the decision on their own, without anyone signing off on giving hormone blockers or having certain surgeries when they reach upper teens, but it is their body, and their life, their decision to make. We allow those decisions to be made for other things. In fact, in some cases we force that decision onto children, to risk their body, their health for the parents' wants, desires.

 

[bluesmoke]

Did you actually read the two articles? I edited the OP to add the article the first one links to, which is much more detailed.

Then, do you think the title "The science behind gender ideology is bunk" is not bias?

 

[bluesmoke]

Should we ask the participants?

What's the scorecard show?

 

[Lisa]

What's the scorecard show?

It seems that many of those w people were gay/lesbian and hated being gay so they thought that if they transitioned they would be happier as heterosexual. This should have been screened for by their therapists because it is known to be common in conservative societies where being LGBT means that you are an outcast and subject to bullying and harassment. The fact that they made the mistake doesn't in any way means that trans trans teens should be denied effective care because of the mistakes of these people. The diagnosis and screening process should be better but that doesn't mean that they should in any way try to become more transphobic or TERFish.

 

[RAMOSS]

We know the article is not bias because the title is "The science behind gender ideology is bunk".

Plus, it's pushed by the heritage foundation

 

[RAMOSS]

Did you actually read the two articles? I edited the OP to add the article the first one links to, which is much more detailed.

I tracked down the person who wrote the first article to find his back ground. It is a very strong anti-gay, anti gay marriage person. That makes his claims suspect right there, since he is coming from a position of bigotry.

 

[BrotherFease]

I tracked down the person who wrote the first article to find his back ground. It is a very strong anti-gay, anti gay marriage person. That makes his claims suspect right there, since he is coming from a position of bigotry.

I read over the article. And yes, what you wrote is pretty accurate. The articles are full of misleading, deceptive and flat out strawman argumentation.

Here are the issues:

1. The article states you cannot change your sex. The problem: No serious person ever made that claim.
2. Doesn't comprehend what "transition" means. These articles believe that "transition" means "bottom surgery", but that is far from reality.
3. Ignores the reality of that transitioning from male to female or female to male, significantly reduces gender dysphoria.
4. Only about 8% of transgender people detransition. The majority of cases were motivated by economic factors.
5. Never explains why this is bad. People in our society have every right to identify as they wish. They have every right to dress or go by their preferred names or pronouns.

 

[LittleNipper]

I read over the article. And yes, what you wrote is pretty accurate. The articles are full of misleading, deceptive and flat out strawman argumentation.

Here are the issues:

1. The article states you cannot change your sex. The problem: No serious person ever made that claim.
2. Doesn't comprehend what "transition" means. These articles believe that "transition" means "bottom surgery", but that is far from reality.
3. Ignores the reality of that transitioning from male to female or female to male, significantly reduces gender dysphoria.
4. Only about 8% of transgender people detransition. The majority of cases were motivated by economic factors.
5. Never explains why this is bad. People in our society have every right to identify as they wish. They have every right to dress or go by their preferred names or pronouns.

1. Many individuals are stupid. They think they will remain young forever for starters...
2. Transition means the process or a period of changing from one state or condition to another. And taking hormones can do a lot of physical damage.
3. Once someone does something this expensive and invasive, he or she or it isn't going to generally reveal regrets publicly ---- unless they have a big change in personality and values first.
4. 8% is really quite high and if this was due to economic factors, it only proves that they didn't think things through from the get-go.
5. People do in this society have the right to identify as they so wish. And everyone else has the same right to either play along or reject such "values"as immature and peculiar.

 

[BrotherFease]

1. Many individuals are stupid. They think they will remain young forever for starters...
2. Transition means the process or a period of changing from one state or condition to another. And taking hormones can do a lot of physical damage.
3. Once someone does something this expensive and invasive, he or she or it isn't going to generally reveal regrets publicly ---- unless they have a big change in personality and values first.
4. 8% is really quite high and if this was due to economic factors, it only proves that they didn't think things through from the get-go.
5. People do in this society have the right to identify as they so wish. And everyone else has the same right to either play along or reject such "values"as immature and peculiar.

1-3. Not sure how that responds to what I wrote above.
4. 92% of transgender people don't revert back. The opposite of what you wrote is correct. 8% is a very low number. There are people who lose their job because they transitioned. When they go job hunting, they find out that nobody wants to hire them because they are transgender. In other words, the facts show they "detransition" not because they found out they were not transgender, but that the medical bills, the discrimination, the low availability to employment was too much.
5. Not sure "what immature" means in this context. The right-wing is essentially picking on people who pose no threat to society. They are just living their life.

 

[Goshin]

I tracked down the person who wrote the first article to find his back ground. It is a very strong anti-gay, anti gay marriage person. That makes his claims suspect right there, since he is coming from a position of bigotry.

And yet, you would expect me to accept as valid, studies done by very pro-trans, pro-gay marriage researchers as if they were neutral and disinterested, which they are not. You don't like his views so you characterize them as bigoted and then feel free to ignore his data.

 

[BrotherFease]

And yet, you would expect me to accept as valid, studies done by very pro-trans, pro-gay marriage researchers as if they were neutral and disinterested, which they are not. You don't like his views so you characterize them as bigoted and then feel free to ignore his data.

But you're describing the water here. Modern day science doesn't back the anti-trans, anti-gay movement at all. It is an objective fact/reality that sex and gender no longer mean the same thing. It's an objective fact/reality that transitioning, whether socially or medically, reduces gender dysphoria within a transgender person. When people are loved and supported, they view less likely to commit harm to themselves.

For example, the article spends most of its energy explaining that one cannot change their sex. Which is true, but nobody is making said argument. This highlights very clearly they do not understand the concepts being presented. More over, what is their alternative than the guidelines set by the AMA and APA?

 

[CaughtInThe]

I think it's smart for republicans/conservatives to keep talking about transsexuals. It's a winner.

 

[RAMOSS]

And yet, you would expect me to accept as valid, studies done by very pro-trans, pro-gay marriage researchers as if they were neutral and disinterested, which they are not. You don't like his views so you characterize them as bigoted and then feel free to ignore his data.

It's not just pro-trans/anti-trans, pro-gay/anti-gay. This is someone who a political hack, who does not have a medical background, but is well known for his anti-gay bigotry to begin with. It's not a scientific study, it's an opinion piece that the dta is cherry picked. It's like using studies by the KKK to show that black are inferior, or the studies from the heartland institute that shows cigarettes don't cause cancer, which were funding by Phillip Morris.

 

[Goshin]

But you're describing the water here. Modern day science doesn't back the anti-trans, anti-gay movement at all. It is an objective fact/reality that sex and gender no longer mean the same thing. It's an objective fact/reality that transitioning, whether socially or medically, reduces gender dysphoria within a transgender person. When people are loved and supported, they view less likely to commit harm to themselves.

For example, the article spends most of its energy explaining that one cannot change their sex. Which is true, but nobody is making said argument. This highlights very clearly they do not understand the concepts being presented. More over, what is their alternative than the guidelies set by the AMA and APA?

You're aware that the guidelines set by the AMA and APA have changed dramatically in the past couple of decades? Gender dysphoria was previously considered a mental illness. I suspect that had more to do with political ideology than science.


If I tell the doctor I'm a kangaroo, they send me for psychiatric therapy.
If I tell the doctor I'm a woman, despite having male anatomy, they offer me "gender reassigment"... being mutilated into a rough facsimile of the other gender, but still without many of the fundamental characteristics because those have to be inborn.
It's the only delusion we cater to. Every other delusion, we recognize as such and attempt to treat by convincing the patient they are not, in fact, a kangaroo/etc.

 

[Jredbaron96]

If I tell the doctor I'm a woman, despite having male anatomy

Why do you think some people say this?