America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamentalism

[jfuh]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

If you go back over this thread carefully tou will see that near the beginning I stated (an someone else did as well) that the tittle of the thread was miss leading because iwith regard to religion "conservative" and "fundalmentalist" indicate two entirely different schools of thought. There are fundamentalist Christians and they are like fundamentalist Muslims or fundamentalist Buddhist or whatever. At the same time there are conservative Christians and they are similar to conservative Muslims. Comparing like or similar groups may work well but making one group "conservative" and the other "fundamentalist" aborts any like comparison. This is the thrid time I have brought this up but I guess we would all rather rant than fix the problem which lies in the tittle.

What galenrox has failed to do or arrogantly avoided doing was that this thread was originally in the breaking news section. Under the guidelines of which the title of the thread must be the same as the news source cited.
The news source title is thus the title that I had used and was the statement by the German chancellor, not me.
So before you and galenrox go on your presumptions on what you may think I meant to say come straight to the source. Now I don't blame you for not knowing of the origins of this thread, but as a mod with all the info available, galenrox should've known better than to go on this dishonest presumption and bias presumption.

Now do I feel that christian conservatives are identical to fanatical fundamentalists? Depends on how you define fundamentalism. If they are in the belief that the bible is the literal truth of god then yes I think they are fanatics.
If they are thus superior to everyone else because only they see the real "truth" through the bible and that somehow the rest of us are going to hell or that we need to be "brought to the light and glory of" the christian belief. Then tell me how that is in anyway different from the islamic fundamentalists in mentality?
Those individuals hide behind the cloak and veil of a less dramatic term but are in no means any different from the fundamentalists that strap bombs to themselves. The only thing that is keeping these "conservatives" from tar and feathering us is the fact that we live in a civilized society that abides by law and order.
The wackos had their fun during the salem witch trials as well as the spanish inquisition. Yet these were "christians" that believed in the book of god and the word of jesus', god's only son. These are the ppl that believe more in the deity of christ rather than in the teaching of christ. That some how christ's teaching is up for interpretation by however they see fit in order to justify their actions. This could not have been demonstrated better than by this president: "god is on our side" or by doughgirl here whom demonstratively sees herself as superior to the rest of us and that we are somehow wronged. It's pointless to even engage in an argument with such individuals because they truly see nothing wrong with their actions and that it is us who are wronged. They only see the world in black and white - indifferent from the islamic fundamentalists - thus my statement. And the rational for posting this thread in the first place.

 

[kabil]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

what creates terrorist groups in the middle east ? the terrorist must has an evil enemy (in his opinion)
and mr bush is creating more and more terrorists every day ,the war in iraq isnt a war on terrorism
its a factory that produce terrorists (because now they have more reasons to exist) ,before the creation of israel in the fourties there was no violence in the region countries like mine was on its way to real democracy there was jews christians bahais muslims and atheists and u couldnt name this one as a muslim and this as a jew or christian because we were egyptians first and u r free to worship what ever you want in ur home ,but by the creation of israel
a new state built on religious dreams a sectarian state a homeland for all the jews in the world it doesnt matter if you were russian american french or ethiopian now u r an israeli u have the right to live in this land because god gave it to us,before ancient israel there were palestinians living there so logically i cant get it ,gangs of jews forced palestinians out of the land they and thier ancestors lived in by a violence not diffrent from what taliban did in 9/11 ,the presence of such a country created extremist and sectarian ideologies in the region to fight against israel ,the 1952 revolution in egypt (the war of 1948 was one of the main causes of the revolution) and the reverse of democracy in egypt since then and the civil war in lebanon are such examples of what u get im not calling to fight against israel or to erase it we r closer to jews than u r ,the criminal bin laden did what he did in 9/11 because america is standing for israel no matter what ,in this region we have the feeling that america is the servant of israel that cant say no the 9/11 attacks werent against the american way of life ,america has the right to fight the criminal gangs in afghanistan and to bring them into justice but the war in iraq was a very stupid move it had no reasons no causes no what ever (because iraq has nothing to do with taliban or el qaaeda) and it is creating terrorists every day its a war calling for terrorism not against terrorism mr bush lied to bring americans to war and then he said that it was a mistake a simple mistake in fact that took the life of civilians jouranalists diplomats etc and caused a civil war in my opinion mr bush carries the burden of thousands of dead bodies every day in iraq americans and non americans ,and i dont know why all politicians in the world are stupid son of a bitches . sorry my english is weak (The researchers estimated that an additional 654,965 people have died in Iraq since the invasion above what would have been expected from the pre-war mortality rate)

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I think that schools that allow Christian prayer should be burned to the ground along with the churches.

And on another thread you are claiming to not be intolerant. :roll:

 

[doughgirl]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I’ll try to address the ones you listed.

1# "...if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. ...the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."
Fundamentalist Christian Pat Robertson

Absolutely correct. This is scriptural and I agree totally with it. My husband is head of our household. He loves me however and treats me as his equal because God sees me as his equal. But God teaches husbands to use their authority in love.


Ephesians 5:22-24,33 -- Just as the church should submit to Christ, not rebelliously but respectfully, so the wife must abide by all her husband's decisions. The only exception would be if the husband commanded her to do something that would violate God's law (Acts 5:29).

2. "Democracy doesn't request for the ordinance of God who of course, knows best for mankind. Democracy acts from the selfish whims of depraved man and since man is depraved..."

Fundamentalist Christian group Citizens for 10 Commandments ???

I believe God knows best and we are depraved. I have no idea what or who this group is……….

3.# "How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?”
Fundamentalist Christian Pat Robertson

He is talking about sinners here, sinners by Gods definition. What he should say is that many Christians could also be included in the categories he lists. Because every Christian who has ever lived has sinned. We are no different than any he lists.

4.# "I want to be invisible. I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don't know it's over until you're in a body bag."
Fundamentalist Christian Ralph Reed

Who is this? Never heard of him. He doesn’t sound like a Christian to me but I’ll read up on him and get back with ya.

5.# "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots."
Fundamentalist Christian George H. W. Bush

Could you post where he said this, provide a link or something……..I would hink if he made this statment it would be all over the headlines.
Until I see documentaion I dont believe thsi one.

I am not so sure Bush is a fundamentalist. Why do you consider him one? He has said many things that sound suspect to me. Such as Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Fundamenals don’t believe this and when Bush said it, it made headlines and evangelicals preachers questioned him.

6.# "The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation."
Fundamentalist Christian Pat Robertson

Who are the termites? I mean where are you getting these quotes? Could you please provide more documentation?

7.# "No human being is allowed to legislate laws which are the right of God alone."
Islamic Fundamentalist group Al-Queda in Iraq

That is what their holy books say.

Compare however what the bible says about unbelievers to the Koran and Hadith and what it says. Compare Jesus to Muhammed. Compare the messages of the Christian God who says ’win souls for Christ” to what Allah commands……."slew them where ever you find the infidel."

Big difference. Huge difference.
And if you look around the world today, and you realistically look at what is happening and who is killing who………its not those from the Christian faith that are killing in the name of Christ, its Islamic fundamentalists.

Now Pat Robertson is not one of my favorite people. But do tell me other than put his foot in his mouth, has he ever killed anyone, or even hurt anyone physically. He has the right to free speech but has he done anything illegal?

In fact what high profile Christian around the world is killing people, or calling for Christians to kill people for Christ?

Grannie said, “BTW, Jews, Protestants, and Catholics use different versions of the Ten Commandments, why do you think ONE should have exclusivity?”

What has been posted in Washington since the constitution?

“The First Amendment guarantees that government cannot interfere in religion. That is why government cannot endorse one religion on government property...it would be interfering with another religion.”

The government will interfere………did you not read the examples I gave? Again you give no comments as to what you think about them. :rofl

“The government cannot use the force of government, even if it is desired by a majority, to remove INDIVIDUAL rights.”

But it does every day. It denies many rights to people and groups. You wnat examples........would be more than willing.

“A quaint method of stating the date was just a CUSTOM, not a legal requirement for anything. Where in the Constitution does it say that Christianity is required? Even preferred? Many states back then WERE theocracies, but they gave it up for FREEDOM.”

Lord was Jesus Christ and as a pagan I can see why you want to deny this. It makes you upset.

If the Founders were absolutely trying to eliminate all forms of Christianity and partiality towards a particular religion they would have omitted that word, but they did not. and if the dating system was christian and they wanted to get away from that......they could have used the dating system France went with.


It meant Jesus Christ.

“I think that schools that allow Christian prayer should be burned to the ground along with the churches.”

And you make my point……….its people like you who are scary. Its people like you who are threatening…….You are my prime example. Thank you very muh for showing your true colors.

 

[Monk-Eye]

Charts

"Charts"

And you make my point……….its people like you who are scary. Its people like you who are threatening…….You are my prime example. Thank you very muh for showing your true colors.

The agression principle does allow defense against agression.

Leviticus 20:13 then states וְאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁכַּב אֶת זָכָר מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה תּוֹעֵבָה עָשׂוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם מוֹת יוּמָתוּ דְּמֵיהֶם בָּם: "A man shall not lie with another man as he would with a woman; the two of them have done a toevah; they shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them.

The libertarian view of homosexuality is that it is likely noone elses concern. Yet, you concern yourself with it. What is with the obsession?

 

[cherokee]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I think that schools that allow Christian prayer should be burned to the ground along with the churches.

That’s real intelligent........:roll:

As far as schools go cant a compromise like this be made?
How about 20 or so seconds of silence for students who wish to say a pray under their breath after the pledge? Would that not be fair?
They wouldn’t be allowed to bring anything in like a rug, candles or stuff like that.

Now since I mentioned the Pledge and I’m sure someone will bring this up.
If you don’t wish to recite the Pledge I have an easy fix for you. Keep your mouth shut and allow others to recite as they wish.

 

[Inuyasha]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

That’s real intelligent........:roll:

As far as schools go cant a compromise like this be made?
How about 20 or so seconds of silence for students who wish to say a pray under their breath after the pledge? Would that not be fair?
They wouldn’t be allowed to bring anything in like a rug, candles or stuff like that.

Now since I mentioned the Pledge and I’m sure someone will bring this up.
If you don’t wish to recite the Pledge I have an easy fix for you. Keep your mouth shut and allow others to recite as they wish.

I went to grammar school in the late 40's and early 50's. I attended public schools first in Detroit and later in Webster NY. I remember reciting the pledge every day an we had no trouble. But i never remember parying in the classroom. This must be some new thing because my dad who is well into his 90's doesn't either.

 

[cherokee]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I went to grammar school in the late 40's and early 50's. I attended public schools first in Detroit and later in Webster NY. I remember reciting the pledge every day an we had no trouble. But i never remember parying in the classroom. This must be some new thing because my dad who is well into his 90's doesn't either.

About the same here......60'and 70's, we never prayed.

 

[Inuyasha]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

About the same here......60'and 70's, we never prayed.

Then don't you think that we can ask what the problem is here. I feel that years ago we were far more Christian but less fanatical then we are today. Don't you think so?

 

[Inuyasha]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

what creates terrorist groups in the middle east ? the terrorist must has an evil enemy (in his opinion)
and mr bush is creating more and more terrorists every day ,the war in iraq isnt a war on terrorism
its a factory that produce terrorists (because now they have more reasons to exist) ,before the creation of israel in the fourties there was no violence in the region countries like mine was on its way to real democracy there was jews christians bahais muslims and atheists and u couldnt name this one as a muslim and this as a jew or christian because we were egyptians first and u r free to worship what ever you want in ur home ,but by the creation of israel
a new state built on religious dreams a sectarian state a homeland for all the jews in the world it doesnt matter if you were russian american french or ethiopian now u r an israeli u have the right to live in this land because god gave it to us,before ancient israel there were palestinians living there so logically i cant get it ,gangs of jews forced palestinians out of the land they and thier ancestors lived in by a violence not diffrent from what taliban did in 9/11 ,the presence of such a country created extremist and sectarian ideologies in the region to fight against israel ,the 1952 revolution in egypt (the war of 1948 was one of the main causes of the revolution) and the reverse of democracy in egypt since then and the civil war in lebanon are such examples of what u get im not calling to fight against israel or to erase it we r closer to jews than u r ,the criminal bin laden did what he did in 9/11 because america is standing for israel no matter what ,in this region we have the feeling that america is the servant of israel that cant say no the 9/11 attacks werent against the american way of life ,america has the right to fight the criminal gangs in afghanistan and to bring them into justice but the war in iraq was a very stupid move it had no reasons no causes no what ever (because iraq has nothing to do with taliban or el qaaeda) and it is creating terrorists every day its a war calling for terrorism not against terrorism mr bush lied to bring americans to war and then he said that it was a mistake a simple mistake in fact that took the life of civilians jouranalists diplomats etc and caused a civil war in my opinion mr bush carries the burden of thousands of dead bodies every day in iraq americans and non americans ,and i dont know why all politicians in the world are stupid son of a bitches . sorry my english is weak (The researchers estimated that an additional 654,965 people have died in Iraq since the invasion above what would have been expected from the pre-war mortality rate)

Don't worry about your English Kabil. I, for one, am glad you are here. You opinions will open the eyes of many even if they may disagree. Please continue to contribute.

On the other hand, i believe the problem in the Arab world (not Egypt and the rest of North Africa but the area of the ME (Iraq Jordan, Saudi Arabia etc, .. goes back far beyond the 1948 war. That is just one historical event. The Englishman T.E. Lawrence define the problems of the ME very well in "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom". It is not just Shia and Sunni but it is the tribal conditions that make it hard for those people to organize. Iraq is not a country but more a combination of different peoples who must settle not only their religious differences but their ethnic ones as well. The Kurds, the ethnic turks and the tribes of the south must come together as a people if they want to make a nation. The religious differences often obscure the other differences which are equally as problematic and important. Religion is not the sole problem. Thank you for you informative post.

As you have seen here the rest of the world also has its fanatics.

 

[Monk-Eye]

Fantasy

"Fantasy"

Now since I mentioned the Pledge and I’m sure someone will bring this up. If you don’t wish to recite the Pledge I have an easy fix for you. Keep your mouth shut and allow others to recite as they wish.

Keep your mouth shut? How about taking your own intimidative and declarative advice.

Would it diminish allegiance to the constitution to formalize the declaration as, "One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."?

A negative aspect is, if it indicates, that the state is an ultimate authority. One nation under god describes a complexity of elective fatalism but, connotations of the term god is the standard issue of objection whereas, elective fatalism may not be.

 

[Monk-Eye]

Passive

"Passive"

"Fantasy"
Keep your mouth shut? How about taking your own intimidative and declarative advice. Would it diminish allegiance to the constitution to formalize the declaration as, "One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."?A negative aspect is, if it indicates, that the state is an ultimate authority. One nation under god describes a complexity of elective fatalism but, connotations of the term god is the standard issue of objection whereas, elective fatalism may not be.

Inquiring an opinion from only one atheist. Oddly, there was no objection to the clause "under god", as it was perceived as nondescript, even to theism.

Would it be unique and interesting to insert a thought, via a silent pause?
The recitation would read, "One nation, under ________, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
It might keep names from being used in vain.

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I’ll try to address the ones you listed.
Absolutely correct. This is scriptural and I agree totally with it. My husband is head of our household. He loves me however and treats me as his equal because God sees me as his equal. But God teaches husbands to use their authority in love.
Ephesians 5:22-24,33 -- Just as the church should submit to Christ, not rebelliously but respectfully, so the wife must abide by all her husband's decisions. The only exception would be if the husband commanded her to do something that would violate God's law (Acts 5:29).

An individual marriage can be structured any way the couple agrees upon, but the Reconstructionists want to make your version of a "correct" marriage into the law of the land.

Who is this? Never heard of him. He doesn’t sound like a Christian to me but I’ll read up on him and get back with ya.
***
Could you post where he said this, provide a link or something……..I would hink if he made this statment it would be all over the headlines.
Until I see documentaion I dont believe thsi one.
***
I am not so sure Bush is a fundamentalist. Why do you consider him one? He has said many things that sound suspect to me. Such as Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Fundamenals don’t believe this and when Bush said it, it made headlines and evangelicals preachers questioned him.
***
Who are the termites? I mean where are you getting these quotes? Could you please provide more documentation?

These quotes have all been prominently displayed on the news. Could it be that you limit your reading to radical Christian news sites and are therefore less informed about the REAL world?

Now Pat Robertson is not one of my favorite people. But do tell me other than put his foot in his mouth, has he ever killed anyone, or even hurt anyone physically. He has the right to free speech but has he done anything illegal?

He has advocated killing, such as praying for the death of a Supreme Court judge and suggesting that the Argentina president should be assassinated.

In fact what high profile Christian around the world is killing people, or calling for Christians to kill people for Christ?

Pat Robertson

The government will interfere………did you not read the examples I gave? Again you give no comments as to what you think about them. :rofl
But it does every day. It denies many rights to people and groups. You wnat examples........would be more than willing.

When the government violates the Constitution, it can be taken to court...the ACLU will even help.

Lord was Jesus Christ and as a pagan I can see why you want to deny this. It makes you upset.
If the Founders were absolutely trying to eliminate all forms of Christianity and partiality towards a particular religion they would have omitted that word, but they did not. and if the dating system was christian and they wanted to get away from that......they could have used the dating system France went with.
It meant Jesus Christ.

The founders were not trying to eliminate all forms of Christianity, but they were eliminating partiality BY the GOVERNMENT toward any religion. The method of stating the date was simply custom at the time, and I doubt ANYONE thought anything of it until years later a group of Christians began to USE that meaningless gesture to PROVE that the founders meant to establish religion. The courts have ruled that similar statements of Christianity are acceptable by calling them "ceremonial Deism" which basically means they are ceremony devoid of real meaning.

And you make my point……….its people like you who are scary. Its people like you who are threatening…….You are my prime example. Thank you very muh for showing your true colors.

What is scary is people who do not know about the people they are following. If you get your information from Concerned Women for America and World Net Daily, you are not going to know what is going on in the world.

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I went to grammar school in the late 40's and early 50's. I attended public schools first in Detroit and later in Webster NY. I remember reciting the pledge every day an we had no trouble. But i never remember parying in the classroom. This must be some new thing because my dad who is well into his 90's doesn't either.

The Christian Right has exaggerated the prevalance of prayer in the classroom. The Pledge of Allegiance did not have the phrase "under God" in it until the mid-50's, it was added in the Eisenhower administration.

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

As far as schools go cant a compromise like this be made?
How about 20 or so seconds of silence for students who wish to say a pray under their breath after the pledge? Would that not be fair?
They wouldn’t be allowed to bring anything in like a rug, candles or stuff like that.

How about a compromise like this: Parents teach their children to pray on their own, then they can pray anytime they feel the need. Why do they need SILENCE, is God hard of hearing?

Now since I mentioned the Pledge and I’m sure someone will bring this up.
If you don’t wish to recite the Pledge I have an easy fix for you. Keep your mouth shut and allow others to recite as they wish.

The problem with the Pledge is that Congress has legislated the "correct" wording of the Pledge to include "under God" which is indicating a preference by the government for religions that worship GOD over religions that worship for instance, multiple Gods or Goddesses, or NO God at all.

 

[cherokee]

Re: Fantasy

"Fantasy"


Keep your mouth shut? How about taking your own intimidative and declarative advice.

Would it diminish allegiance to the constitution to formalize the declaration as, "One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."?

A negative aspect is, if it indicates, that the state is an ultimate authority. One nation under god describes a complexity of elective fatalism but, connotations of the term god is the standard issue of objection whereas, elective fatalism may not be.

Oh did I hit a nerve?..thats too damn funny....:lamo

I offered you something of a compromise and you shot it down.
I simply stated if the person doesn’t want to recite the pledge to simply keep his or her mouth shut.


If you have a problem with "Under God" then do as I do and don’t say "Under God"!..........:roll:

 

[cherokee]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

How about a compromise like this: Parents teach their children to pray on their own, then they can pray anytime they feel the need. Why do they need SILENCE, is God hard of hearing?
The problem with the Pledge is that Congress has legislated the "correct" wording of the Pledge to include "under God" which is indicating a preference by the government for religions that worship GOD over religions that worship for instance, multiple Gods or Goddesses, or NO God at all.

You people want to make a mountain out of a fooking mole hill!.........:roll:

What’s wrong with a few seconds of SILENCE? hmmm?
What’s wrong with just NOT saying Under God?
I swear idiot people today wear their feelings on their shirt sleeves just waiting to be offended!.

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

You people want to make a mountain out of a fooking mole hill!.........:roll:

What’s wrong with a few seconds of SILENCE? hmmm?
What’s wrong with just NOT saying Under God?
I swear idiot people today wear their feelings on their shirt sleeves just waiting to be offended!.

So we should just look the other way when the Constitution is violated...because it's such a LITTLE matter? Then when it is violated again, in a larger matter...we should just look the other way, because it's only a LITTLE LARGER than before? What's wrong with a few seconds of silence? It is NOT the school district's responsibility to provide for the religious expression of students, nor is it their prerogative to stand in the way of that expression, so long as it does not interfere with school order. It is the responsibility of PARENTS to teach their children how, what, when to pray. Can't you hear the teacher now: "All right children, your MOMENT OF SILENCE is up, STOP praying now"?

The law in many states requires the recitation of the Pledge by students in every school day. The law passed by Congress dictates the wording of the Pledge to include "under God". That is the way teachers must teach the Pledge to students. As far as adults are concerned, say what you want or don't say it, but children should not have to choose whether to say "under God" or be ostracized by their peers.

 

[cherokee]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

So we should just look the other way when the Constitution is violated...because it's such a LITTLE matter? Then when it is violated again, in a larger matter...we should just look the other way, because it's only a LITTLE LARGER than before? What's wrong with a few seconds of silence? It is NOT the school district's responsibility to provide for the religious expression of students, nor is it their prerogative to stand in the way of that expression, so long as it does not interfere with school order. It is the responsibility of PARENTS to teach their children how, what, when to pray. Can't you hear the teacher now: "All right children, your MOMENT OF SILENCE is up, STOP praying now"?

The law in many states requires the recitation of the Pledge by students in every school day. The law passed by Congress dictates the wording of the Pledge to include "under God". That is the way teachers must teach the Pledge to students. As far as adults are concerned, say what you want or don't say it, but children should not have to choose whether to say "under God" or be ostracized by their peers.

And this is the downfall of the USA?
I mean all these years of saying “UNDER GOD” has brought the USA to her knees.......:roll:

I guess you feel the skies will fall next?..............:roll:

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

And this is the downfall of the USA?
I mean all these years of saying “UNDER GOD” has brought the USA to her knees.......:roll:

I guess you feel the skies will fall next?..............:roll:

I am saying that small breaches of the Constitution will lead to larger breaches, and so on. If you value the Constitution, there is no such thing as an insignificant breach.

For want of a nail - rhyme

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

 

[jfuh]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Once again, let's assess the validity of your claims

a) "and cut the bs of trying to single me out simply because I've got donkeys."
This is clearly reliant on the premises that I single you out, and that if I do single you out, it is "simply because" you have donkeys.

Now the latter of these claims would be easy to substantiate, were it true. I would single out everyone with donkeys, and you could go through every thread I post on and you'd see that in these threads I always single out every member of the democrat user group. Follow so far?

But then when you actually go back and look at the history of my posts here, you'd see that this claim is VERY clearly false. The other claim, of me singling you out, now for this to be something about YOU, and not just about WHAT YOU SAY, then you'd have to adjust how often I respond to you for how often I disagree with you (for, as this is a debate forum, clearly there's nothing wrong with stating disagreement).

But of course, why would you substantiate your claims, right? It FEELS right, so it must be right.

b) "In fact you've done so again here in this very post I'm responding to with the bs hippie statement."


Oh yeah, that's just covered with bigotry, as you know, bigotry is almost always accompanied with the acknowledgement that such beliefs are obviously incorrect.



I find it funny that you say that I need to come out into the real world, when, in our interaction, I'm the only one who cares about the rules of the real world, like claims must be substantiated before they're treated as fact. So if I'm completely wrong, and what you said is not a product of bigotry, explain to me exactly how doughgirl is representative enough of all christian conservatives so that phenomena you observe from her is AT ALL generalizable. Please. I BEG of you to prove me wrong.

Claims must be substantiated before they're treated as fact. Like for example that the title of this thread is because it used to be in the breaking news section?

How doughgirl is representative of christian conservatives? let's see, perhaps by her own claim? That enough for you? Proven wrong?
All you're trying to do is again, singling me out because you've nothing but blind hatred towards me. I've no idea how it started out as before I've had little if not no interaction with you, but somewhere in between you've put everyone of my words under a magnifying glass, micro-analyzing every word. Than editing out portions to suit your own argument.
In all realities it's as clear as day, you want a punching bag and you want to vent your anger onto someone, you found me. At least have the balls to admit to that.

 

[cherokee]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I am saying that small breaches of the Constitution will lead to larger breaches, and so on. If you value the Constitution, there is no such thing as an insignificant breach.

For want of a nail - rhyme

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Well a Marine wouldnt let the little matter of not having a horse prevent him from going into battle....


All I'm saying is the pledge has been said for what 100 years now?
and in that time has anything bad came from it (under god)?

As for the Constitution of the United States I hold it above all else.

Have you ever read the last paragraph of the Constitution?

Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names

What do you think that (in bold) means?

Have you ever read The Declaration of Independence?

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Does this mean anything? ( in bold)

Should we throw away The Declaration of Independence because it says "Natures God" and "their Creator"? Should we throw away the greatest document ever penned (The Constitution of the United States) because it says "In the year of our Lord"?

Of course not.

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Well a Marine wouldnt let the little matter of not having a horse prevent him from going into battle....
All I'm saying is the pledge has been said for what 100 years now?
and in that time has anything bad came from it (under god)?

From 1895 to the mid-50's the Pledge was said without "under God", did anything bad come from omitting it? Would anything bad come from restoring the Pledge to its original wording?

As for the Constitution of the United States I hold it above all else.
Have you ever read the last paragraph of the Constitution?
What do you think that (in bold) means?

I think it means the writers conformed to the custom of the times in dating documents.

Have you ever read The Declaration of Independence?
Does this mean anything? ( in bold)

Very little. I think it means the writers made an effort to appeal to the WHOLE population because they needed the support of the masses.

Should we throw away The Declaration of Independence because it says "Natures God" and "their Creator"? Should we throw away the greatest document ever penned (The Constitution of the United States) because it says "In the year of our Lord"?
Of course not.

Should we allow the fact that the writers conformed to the conventions of the times to be used to justify the government's endorsement of one religion?

 

[Monk-Eye]

Requirements

"Requirements"

Oh did I hit a nerve?..thats too damn funny....:lamo
I offered you something of a compromise and you shot it down.
I simply stated if the person doesn’t want to recite the pledge to simply keep his or her mouth shut.
If you have a problem with "Under God" then do as I do and don’t say "Under God"!..........:roll:

The moment of silence proposition was not addressed, therefore nothing was shot down.
Consideration of morning yoga, to focus the inner self, offered no sufficiencies either.

After the directive, keep your mouth shut, it did not really matter what the reason was, there needs to be something more than "because" to back it up.

"under God" was not in the original Pledge of Allegiance. A preference would be, "... one Nation under -a--p-a-u-s-e-, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
In that way, an emphasis on the difference between private petitions and the essentials of government, in compliance with the constitution, would be made.

 

[PoliticalActivist]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Its arguments and debates like this is why the world is NOT at peace now.
All Religions has rights to believe whatever they choose to believe, and
the problem starts when everybodys religion is right nobody will admit being
wrong.