America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamentalism

[Inuyasha]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I never have heard of “hatered’ before……..could you elaborate on its meaning for all of us. Of course maybe it’s a typo or you just have never passed 4th grade spelling. A simple spelling class might help.

Just curious are you a Christian? Or is that just way to personal a question to ask someone who is as sensitive as you are?


And this website……..oh real factual coming from a site called URBAN LEGENDS. :rofl


FACTS………………that you might like to repond to.

Could you tell me what is etched in the Liberty Bell?

Did you know that Jefferson included a prayer in both of his inaugural addresses? Why?






Could you tell me why The Supreme Court declared in The Church of the Holy Trinity vs United States case, that America was indeed a Christian nation from its earliest days?










Why would he says this?








Why Christians?


















Are all these lies? Important men, founders, presidents, educators, why did they mention Christianity, the bible, morals, Ten Commandments, scriptures?

Year 1620…..What did the Mayflower Compact say? Did it mention at all THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH? What did the Charter of Massachusetts say? How about the Charter for Rhode Island and Providence? How about the Delaware Charter of 1701? Did you know that Jesus Christ is mentioned in every one of them?


If the founding fathers wanted religion kept out……..if the authors of each and every state Constitution wanted it to be secular……..why these references?

I have a book with every state Constitution in our country listed in it. If you want me to post your states I’d be happy to. Every one mentions Christianity in one way or another.


You tell me why? Our country secular back then? ……hardly.




None.
I do not believe in the death penalty at all. I believe God gives life and He will take it away. I believe there is only one sin that keeps you from going to heaven, from receiving salvation……..denial of Jesus Christ. I believe in the Great Commission and I believe that all Christians should follow Christs example and what He said in the NT. He fulfilled the OT, I follow the NT.

Dayam you do go on. ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz. Maybe sometime you'll say something. Hard with a thrid grade mentality but go for it.

 

[Edify_Always_In_All_Ways]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

And this website……..oh real factual coming from a site called URBAN LEGENDS. :rofl

Urban Legends is about as accurate as they come- just because you don't think the subject manner is serious, doesn't mean the people at the site haven't done huge amounts of research to uncover popular wierdness.

Are all these lies? Important men, founders, presidents, educators, why did they mention Christianity, the bible, morals, Ten Commandments, scriptures?


You tell me why? Our country secular back then? ……hardly.

You included far too many examples for me to answer, but I will try to get to most of them.

Jefferson's prayers- Prayers were included in every political speech back then. It was a very simple way of looking like a good Christian for the voters.

Holy Trinity vs. United States- Independent remark from a judge in 1892. What does that have to do with the founding religion (or lack therof) of the US?

The Mayflower Compact- This was written by Puritans who came over to practice religion- of course it would mention Christianity! However, the compact had little to do with the United States as a formalized country. religious groups were also the main writers of those other state constitutions-as their populations were mostly Christian, they saw nothing wrong with it, and neither do I. Mentioning Christ does not mean Biblical law is mandatory.

Isn't Pharoh's chariots in the sea a Jewish image? What does this have to do with a Christian nation?

Congress in 1777- They didn't have the technology to produce good-quality Bibles in the middle of their war with Britain. I'm sure they were importing whatever they could get at that point.

Patrick Henry- He would 'says' this because he was arguing the same thing you were. His role in the creating of the Constitution was to argue strongly against it- he wanted the states to have most of the power. His ideas for religion don't matter for current national laws.

Jay and Washington- They were stating their views as people, not lawmakers. Their views as lawmakers were put down in the Constitution, which clearly states that anyone, regardless of religion, can be elected- otherwise, how can the country be truly free?

After that, we have... more and more devout Christians stating their personal views... the author of a 19th-century schoolbook, for some reason... and James Madison, stating that we should live by the Ten Commandments. More specifically, that we should all govern ourselves by them. I don't see any federal laws here.

Finally, we have Benjamin Franklin- a well known deist, persuading more religious men to write a Constitution, for God's sake (no pun intended).

These commentsareall well and good, but what matters to our country now is what was set down in the Constitution- no national reliigions!

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I never have heard of “hatered’ before……..could you elaborate on its meaning for all of us. Of course maybe it’s a typo or you just have never passed 4th grade spelling. A simple spelling class might help.
Just curious are you a Christian? Or is that just way to personal a question to ask someone who is as sensitive as you are?

Is this your idea of a Christian example?

And this website……..oh real factual coming from a site called URBAN LEGENDS. :rofl

Laugh away, Snopes is a highly respected, unbiased site.

Could you tell me why The Supreme Court declared in The Church of the Holy Trinity vs United States case, that America was indeed a Christian nation from its earliest days?

Separation of Church and State: The Constitutional Principle


"In the ruling, Justice David Brewer flatly declared, "This is a Christian nation." To this day, historians debate what Brewer meant by the term. It is unclear whether he meant to say the country's laws should reflect Christianity or was simply acknowledging the fact that most Americans are Christians."

David Brewer published a book in 1905 in which he argues that the United States is "Christian" in the sense that many of its traditions are rooted in Christianity. He rejects the notion that the nation's laws should be based on Christianity.

Are all these lies? Important men, founders, presidents, educators, why did they mention Christianity, the bible, morals, Ten Commandments, scriptures?

Debunking the "America is a Christian Nation" Myth

"The list of distortions, myths and lies goes on and on.

Conservative Christians and some scholars will often produce quotes and statements from public speeches that would seem to contradict some of what is said by some founders above. But historians always give far more weight to private correspondence and official documents, as the nature of politics is well known to influence what is said or written for public consumption. Such statements or positions may have been offered up to please -- or at least not offend -- church groups and societal gatherings, but the deeper views of great thinkers and some politicians are always revealed in their less public remarks."

Year 1620…..What did the Mayflower Compact say? Did it mention at all THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH? What did the Charter of Massachusetts say? How about the Charter for Rhode Island and Providence? How about the Delaware Charter of 1701? Did you know that Jesus Christ is mentioned in every one of them?

The Mayflower Compact was written almost 200 years before this country was founded. It did not apply to a nation, but to a small group who did indeed found their settlement as a theocracy. It is an interesting historical document concerning some early settlers but has no more bearing on our legal decisions than that of the native Americans whose laws were here first.

If the founding fathers wanted religion kept out……..if the authors of each and every state Constitution wanted it to be secular……..why these references?

I have a book with every state Constitution in our country listed in it. If you want me to post your states I’d be happy to. Every one mentions Christianity in one way or another.

"Following the Revolutionary War in America, political leaders began to construct the new U.S. Government. Although a minority clung to European notions of church-state untion, a general consensus emerged That the new country should steer clear of officially established religion. Over time, states with government-favored religions gradually began moving toward separation as well. Massachusetts, the last state to maintain an official religion, disestablished its state church in 1833...
The Framers wrote the Constitution as a secular document not because they were hostile to Christianity but because they did not want to imply that the new federal government would have any authority to meddle in religion."

From Why the Religious Right Is Wrong by Robert Boston

BTW, the quote by James Madison has been found to be false, I would be careful of other quotations.

AU Press Release -- April 4, 2001

"We have staked the whole of our political institutions," Madison is quoted as saying, "upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

The ad gives no source for the statement, and with good reason: It appears nowhere in the writings of Madison. It was debunked years ago by Madison scholars and even many Religious Right leaders have admitted that the quote can't be substantiated."



The bottom line is that as long as we have separation of church and state, we ALL have the protection of being able to worship as we choose and to support the religious institutions we choose. James Madison said in "Memorial and Remonstrance, "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? That the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?"

 

[QueerNation]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Hate runs deep doesn’t it? :rofl




Wow ok......
I am assuming that you are not a Christian and don't know much about Christianity.

I was raised in a Christian household, I was taught at Bible school, and even as a young boy I saw the incredible deception in the words of the Bible and the fear that was instilled in other kids like myself, victims of Christianity's lies.

You must be born again to receive salvation. Do you even know what being “born again” means?

It means once you accept Christ as your personal savior, you repent of your sins and ask forgiveness, the Holy spirit will make you new. You start a new life, one in Christ.

Many people are Christian but in name only and are not born again. They do not walk in the Spirit, they do not show their fruits, they do not take the Great Commission seriously.

So says YOU? You're saying what EVERY Christian says, as they accuse each other of not being 'True' Christians. What makes you think that you're so much better than other people who call themselves 'Christians'. That is how Christianity keeps driving home this incredibly narcissistic feeling of supremacy above all other religion and classes of people. That is the kind of judgemental BS that makes X-ianity look so very ugly.

It's not enough to just say, I am a Christian or gee I use to be a Christian, go to church, sing in the choir, was baptized……and it made no sense to me so I left the faith. The person probably never made a heart decision and was probably never born again. It is about growing up and some "so called" Christians don’t do it. They are baby Christians and never mature.
With that said.... about judging.

A true Christian would not hesitate to acknowledge his/her sinful nature. I certainly have no problem admitting mine. I am a sinner and I have broken everyone of the Ten Commandments. It is because of our sinful nature however that we seek out Christ. Who would need Christ if they were perfect? Our church has a sign out front that says……. PERFECT PEOPLE NOT ALLOWED. Jesus did not care to be around the ones who thought themselves righteous, He hung around with the sinners and the sick.

It sounds like you may have used Christianity as a 'last resort'. The people I know who are of the 'born-again' variety usually have been through some pretty disturbing things, so ANYTHING is an improvement. That's fine, if it helps YOU, then by all means DO IT, but please don't insult the rest of the world just because YOU FAILED doing it your way. Most people are just fine without any kind of religion or faith.

I am sure you've heard this line, its usually the one non-christians throw at Christians.
"Judge not lest you be judged. You therefore have no right to judge me when it comes to my sins!"

I just wish that maybe the modern face of Christianity would take concept in to their hearts and stop trying to vilify everything that is different from them, the way they have purposefully lied to treat homosexuals, Pagans, atheists, and any OTHER religion in efforts to make themselves feel more 'supreme'. It's such a destructive way of living.

The world often takes this verse out of context and uses it to accuse Christians of being "judgmental" when they speak of sin. You accuse me of being judgmental. You imply that no one has the right to judge another person. Funny those on here who are hostile towards Christians seem to think they are so tolerant that they do not judge others. Read their posts however, they also judge. But somehow because they are not Christians its ok to judge. They hold Christians to a different set of standards than they do themselves. They think that Christ does not give us the right to judge. But He does.

You've got it a little bit backwards. There is a healthy backlash towards Christianity because Christians have such a bad habit of getting caught in blatant hypocrisy and because they are so quick to judge, yet when they do it always blows up in their faces. I think instead of judging homosexuals, Pagans, and anyone else, that Christians mind their own business and take care of their own sins.

In John 7:24 Christ said, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." That means that if someone steals, lies, commits adultery or murder, etc., the Christian can make a (righteous) moral judgment and say that the actions were morally wrong, and that these sins will have eternal consequences.

I love what Chuck Colson said, "True tolerance is not a total lack of judgment. It’s knowing what should be tolerated—and refusing to tolerate that which shouldn’t."

I have the right to judge actions, BUT I do not have the right to judge another persons heart or character, not even my own. (1 Corinthians 4:4) God alone has this authority.

Please spare me the scriptures, the Bible is the most genocidal book ever written, but like most books of it's kind it is NOT the 'word of God' it's what ancient society used to control people and make them all think alike.

You THINK you have a right to judge others based on YOUR idea of 'morality'. And I hate to tell you, but morality is subjective and everyone is entitled to their own version of morality as long as they are not breaking any laws. Christians need to learn that and need to learn to TOLERATE other beliefs.

You are obviously part of the culture that has negative attitudes towards judging. Look at our justice system today. We bend over backwards to protect the criminal and do we offer this many times to the victim? No. This is perverted thinking. It is NEVER in line with Gods will to deal with righteous as with the wicked. We are responsible to judge others conduct and relationships as well as our own. And we are not to base this on our feelings, or by the opinions of society or even by our own estimation of ourselves. We are to judge conduct and relationships by the CLEAR TEACHING AND STANDARDS REVEALED IN THE WORD OF GOD.

You're talking about theocracy and look at the middle east and see where it's gotten them. I'm satisfied with the way prisoners are treated for the most part. I don't have a beef with our justice system. Sometimes it is too lenient and other times it is not lenient enough. That is not for YOU to decide. It's for society to decide and not CHRISTIANTY.

This is easy for me to do, because Gods standards I live by. He makes it perfectly clear what sin is and I know what the consequences are if I sin. An authentic mature Christian will be the first to tell anyone they are a sinner, because they know the difference between right or wrong. IMO the non-Christian has a harder time doing this, because everything is subjective. For many there is not a right or a wrong, no absolutes.
They certainly don't want some unjust, mean, unfair God telling them what they can do and what they cant, they would rather live by their own set of rules. Then they don't have to feel bad, or be held accountable for anything they do. So for them judging themselves or anyone else is just unthinkable.




Could you give some examples here to back up your claim?




I have not seen this documentary so I can't address it. But could you elaborate once again on what you mean by “hate message” because Christ did not preach hatred.

I will not deny that there are not groups that go off the deep end and do very unchristian things in the name of Christ. Example: that group (can’t remember their name) that pickets soldiers funerals. It's absolutely horrible and Christ would not condone their actions at all. Even when Christ talked about sin He did so in a calm and loving way. When the woman was caught in adultery, He simply said, you did wrong now go and sin no more. He acknowledged the sin was wrong and told her to stop. For those in sin today He would do the same thing. We should talk lovingly to those who are sinning, not necessarily to judge but to show them their error in Gods eyes. I’m talking about Christians talking to Christians here. Someone who is not a Christian would not understand and sin is acceptable to them.

As usual, everyone is not a Christian except the ones that are the most 'merciful'. I love how everytime a Christian dislikes the actions of another they exclude them as members as if there is some kind of magical aura that designates who is who. It sounds to me like you're just making a lot of excuses for some pretty disturbing behavior on the part of those who claim to be 'Christians'. I think the truth is that these 'Christians' that you speak of who are so mericful and humble are virtually non-existent.

 

[doughgirl]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

“Hard with a thrid grade mentality but go for it.”

With a what? Again……..you say I am uneducated……..what is “thrid”?
I'd be careful when you are bashing someone because of mistakes.....if I were you that is.


You know it is just so hilarious, the way people deny our Christian heritage. They say that the founders and most the people back then were secular not Christian at all. They are either literally blind to the historical facts or they just hate Christians and Christianity to such an extent they can’t admit it. I think its both here in this case.

The vast majority of the country was Christian, no different than it is today. The vast majority of lawmakers were Christian as they are today. So it really wouldn’t matter what I said or anyone else……..you would not see this. I have posted fact, I have posted quotes by top politicians of their day……they all maintain Americans Christian heritage and the importance of the Bible and the religion to the new found government. You can find an excuse you want…….until the cows come home I don’t really care……you are in denial, because our Christian heritage is FACT.

Oh I could post ten times the stuff that I have showing even more examples but it would do not good. I think we have a few cases of Christianophobia here……you guys are like vampires when they see a cross. :rofl

“The bottom line is that as long as we have separation of church and state, we ALL have the protection of being able to worship as we choose and to support the religious institutions we choose.”

We always did have the right to worship as we wanted. And you could and can support any religious or pagan institution you want. That fact has never changed. Christianity afforded us all that right.


Liberalism now threatens to destroy that. They want to silence those who are Christians, by making it illegal to have free speech. It happened in Canada and Sweden and it can happen here.

Your maintaining that our nation was never Christian is like saying we have always lived under Islamic sharia law.


And grannie………just because I am a Christian doesn’t mean when I am attacked verbally, that I need roll over and play dead. LMAO. You’d like me to but I won’t. I have the right to free speech and to point our error, especially by pointing out someones spelling errors……when they have attacked me by saying that I am the one uneducated and have an elementary view on things. There is nothing unChristian about anything I have said. I happen to use a bit of humor and threw it back at her……..


Lighten up……but then thats hard for you because......I am a Christian, and we all know how you feel about Christians. :rofl

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

You know it is just so hilarious, the way people deny our Christian heritage. They say that the founders and most the people back then were secular not Christian at all. They are either literally blind to the historical facts or they just hate Christians and Christianity to such an extent they can’t admit it. I think its both here in this case.

The vast majority of the country was Christian, no different than it is today. The vast majority of lawmakers were Christian as they are today. So it really wouldn’t matter what I said or anyone else……..you would not see this. I have posted fact, I have posted quotes by top politicians of their day……they all maintain Americans Christian heritage and the importance of the Bible and the religion to the new found government. You can find an excuse you want…….until the cows come home I don’t really care……you are in denial, because our Christian heritage is FACT.

It is absolutely true that Christians are a majority of the population in this country and always have been. It is also true that the founders designed our government to be secular in spite of the majority's Christianity.

We always did have the right to worship as we wanted. And you could and can support any religious or pagan institution you want. That fact has never changed. Christianity afforded us all that right.

We who are now living have always had freedom of religion, but it not true that always existed on this continent. You were touting the Mayflower Compact...it didn't allow for freedom of religion in their settlement. Many states had established state religion before the Revolution and only began to adopt freedom after the Constitution.

Liberalism now threatens to destroy that. They want to silence those who are Christians, by making it illegal to have free speech. It happened in Canada and Sweden and it can happen here.

That is just hogwash...You can't use public property to promote your sectarian propaganda, but otherwise religious speech is as free as any other.

Your maintaining that our nation was never Christian is like saying we have always lived under Islamic sharia law.

There is no similarity. Our government WAS NEVER Christian or any other religion including Islam. Our laws are secular and have been since the U.S. Constitution was ratified.

And grannie………just because I am a Christian doesn’t mean when I am attacked verbally, that I need roll over and play dead. LMAO. You’d like me to but I won’t. I have the right to free speech and to point our error, especially by pointing out someones spelling errors……when they have attacked me by saying that I am the one uneducated and have an elementary view on things. There is nothing unChristian about anything I have said. I happen to use a bit of humor and threw it back at her……..

You believe it's a Christian act to ridicule someone for an error? Particularly such a trivial one? :think:

Lighten up……but then thats hard for you because......I am a Christian, and we all know how you feel about Christians. :rofl

I feel the same way about Christians as I do about anyone else, i.e. I like some, some I don't like. I don't like, I most intensely don't like, those of any faith who would try to change our nation's freedom in order to gain an advantage for their own sect.

 

[QueerNation]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

With a what? Again……..you say I am uneducated……..what is “thrid”?
I'd be careful when you are bashing someone because of mistakes.....if I were you that is.


You know it is just so hilarious, the way people deny our Christian heritage. They say that the founders and most the people back then were secular not Christian at all. They are either literally blind to the historical facts or they just hate Christians and Christianity to such an extent they can’t admit it. I think its both here in this case.

The vast majority of the country was Christian, no different than it is today. The vast majority of lawmakers were Christian as they are today. So it really wouldn’t matter what I said or anyone else……..you would not see this. I have posted fact, I have posted quotes by top politicians of their day……they all maintain Americans Christian heritage and the importance of the Bible and the religion to the new found government. You can find an excuse you want…….until the cows come home I don’t really care……you are in denial, because our Christian heritage is FACT.

Is there a point to your hysteria? Our country was founded on the idea of RELIGIOUS FREEDOM -- that includes freedom FROM religion. If you would refer to the Treaty of Tripoli, it states quite clearly that the US is NOT a 'Christian' nation. The fact is that over a couple hundred years ago, most of the entire planet considered itself 'Christian'. But humanity has progressed since then and we have learned that nearly every myth in the Bible has been scientifically disproven and as we've learned more about humanity we've learned that it does not matter so much which 'God' one chooses, Spirituality is fundamental to all, whether it's Jesus, Gaia, Allah, or Satan, Christianity is one of many beliefs, nothing more.

Oh I could post ten times the stuff that I have showing even more examples but it would do not good. I think we have a few cases of Christianophobia here……you guys are like vampires when they see a cross. :rofl

Or could it be that non-Christians really could care less? We are merely asking the government to not accept one faith above all others. How is that 'Christianophobia'??

We always did have the right to worship as we wanted. And you could and can support any religious or pagan institution you want. That fact has never changed. Christianity afforded us all that right.


Liberalism now threatens to destroy that. They want to silence those who are Christians, by making it illegal to have free speech. It happened in Canada and Sweden and it can happen here.

Your maintaining that our nation was never Christian is like saying we have always lived under Islamic sharia law.

REALLY?! Can you give me an example? How has Canada and Sweden made free speech illegal? I can hardly wait to see what you come up with. BTW: The US was never a Christian nation. We are a nation founded on the idea of religious freedom, not Christianity. "Creator" does not mean the 'Christian' god, but is ambiguous for a reason.

And grannie………just because I am a Christian doesn’t mean when I am attacked verbally, that I need roll over and play dead. LMAO. You’d like me to but I won’t. I have the right to free speech and to point our error, especially by pointing out someones spelling errors……when they have attacked me by saying that I am the one uneducated and have an elementary view on things. There is nothing unChristian about anything I have said. I happen to use a bit of humor and threw it back at her……..


Lighten up……but then thats hard for you because......I am a Christian, and we all know how you feel about Christians. :rofl

I am not so sure you're a Christian, just because you say so even in your own words doesn't define it.

 

[Inuyasha]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

It is becoming more and more evident that "doughgirl" is showing us more and more of her fanatical nature as she gets backed into a corner. She is beginning to sound like any other radical regigious extrmist. I get the feeling she0d like to stone the lot of us because we are in her narrow view not "born again" Protestants. Good luck on your crusade.

 

[neo-era]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Oh I could post ten times the stuff that I have showing even more examples but it would do not good. I think we have a few cases of Christianophobia here……you guys are like vampires when they see a cross.

Actually, when I see a cross I laugh Keep that in mind when you decide to even attempt to shove your christian ways upon rightful skeptics.

I would like to point out that the current "American" rule, the Illuminati, are using christianity as a tool to control the populace, and people like us (as in all those opposed to 'doughgirl') should just stand back, and be entertained.

So there, as you crusaders :spin: around in excitement over this "Christ" and his supposed return, we wait aback and are Those Who Know, or the Enlightened, if you will.

 

[jfuh]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

It is becoming more and more evident that "doughgirl" is showing us more and more of her fanatical nature as she gets backed into a corner. She is beginning to sound like any other radical regigious extrmist. I get the feeling she0d like to stone the lot of us because we are in her narrow view not "born again" Protestants. Good luck on your crusade.

Not much different from an Islamic fundamentalist. Proving the thread title quite right.

 

[doughgirl]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

“There is no similarity. Our government WAS NEVER Christian or any other religion including Islam. Our laws are secular and have been since the U.S. Constitution was ratified.”

Our country was anything but secular back then. The founders were 99% Christian as was the country. And the Founders lives spoke for themselves. There never was separation of church and state. NEVER. It has only been a matter of decades since the SC ruled in the Everson case, essentially making Jeffersons phrase “separation of “church and state” the law of the land. The only place this phrase ever was documented was in his letter to the Danbury Baptists. The intentions of the Founders was perverted.

Liberals are afraid, more like paranoid that one day this perversion might just be reversed. Just as slavery was eventually outlawed after being sanctioned by the laws of the land for decades, so the perversion of the First Amendment may well be corrected.

We see today that despite what the Founders intended, or even what elected legislators determine, just one judge can make a ruling and it changes the course of the country, such was the case of abortion. Liberal lawyers today can bend the law to his or her philosophy and because we no longer are tied to the original intent of the Framers,it becomes the law of the land.

Example…..Homosexual marriage. The people of Massachusetts voted into law a state regulation that prohibited the establishment of same sex marriage. BUT…….the liberal lawyers of their Supreme Court decided to IGNORE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. So the high court struck down the ban as unconstitutional, a move that will potentially destroy the institution of family in America. The people said one thing…….the LIBERAL courts said another. These left wing radical thugs dressed in robes thumb their nose at our Judeo-Christian history by deciding the fate of our country despite what THE PEOPLE WANT.

There is no question in my mind what the Founding fathers intended regarding the relationship between religion and government. It isn’t a complexed issue…… the Founders were clear by what they said and what they did both in their public and private lives. Because of the foundation of faith they set before us……we have chaplains in the military, in congress, even in our prisons systems. The artwork and inscriptions on our federal buildings in Washington…….all Christian. Prayers are heard at cabinet meetings, sessions of congress……What happened after 9-11? I believe the senators and congressmen stood shoulder to shoulder on the steps of the US Capital and what did they sing? The sang GOD BLESS AMERICA. Separation of Church and State?

And nowhere in American life do myths dress up like facts in regards to the questions of religion in our national life.

THE CONSTITUTION SAYS NOTHING ABOUT SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. THE CONSTITUTION NEVER EVEN MENTIONS THE WORD CHURCH.


“You believe it's a Christian act to ridicule someone for an error? Particularly such a trivial one?"

Oh lighten up. You didn’t defend me however when she ridiculed me……..did you? Is it because I am a Christian and you don’t like me? And why put the word Christian in your statement. Does it matter if someone is Christian as to whether they can correct someone or not? You certainly by not defending me when I was ridiculed show your true colors. :rofl

“I feel the same way about Christians as I do about anyone else, i.e. I like some, some I don't like. I don't like, I most intensely don't like, those of any faith who would try to change our nation's freedom in order to gain an advantage for their own sect.’

IMO you don’t, you don’t seem to on this board. We don’t have to change anything, people are free in America. And Christianity has been the model. I don’t even belong to a denomination, I go to a Bible church with no affiliation at all.

 

[doughgirl]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Queer said, “REALLY?! Can you give me an example? How has Canada and Sweden made free speech illegal? I can hardly wait to see what you come up with. BTW: The US was never a Christian nation. We are a nation founded on the idea of religious freedom, not Christianity. "Creator" does not mean the 'Christian' god, but is ambiguous for a reason."

You have obviously never been to Washington D.C. have you? :rofl


Canadas Charter of Rights and Freedoms has a broad antidiscrimination provision that is interpreted to prohibit discrimination against sexual orientation. This provision has been used in Canada to silence religious organizations and pastors. Here are jsut a few cases.

Robert Jason a retired citizen of Fonthill, Ontario who believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman sent an email to that effect. The next thing you know he gets a knock on his door from the local police who interrogated his wife and warn him not to threaten anyone-something that he never did and had no intentions of doing.

Hate-Crimes: The Knock on the Door

Chris Kempling, PhD in psychology who happens to be head of the Central British Columbia Public Health Board and a counselor at his local high school was suspended from his teaching job for one month without pay for writing a letter to the editor of his local paper. The letter expressed his beliefs which did not agree with the homosexual agenda. He stated that homosexuality was not a genetic orientation that homosexual sex was often unhealthy and promiscuous, and that homosexuals could become straight.. Based on this letter the judge found that there was “sufficient evidence” to pronounce Kempling a “bigot”. He was convicted of nothing more than having the “wrong” thoughts.
(Lorne Gunter,”Bill Means End of Free speech,” Edmonton Journal, 28 March 2004.)

Teacher Suspended* for Critiquing Homosexual Lifestyle

Dr. Jerry Falwell’s Old- Time Gospel Hour and Dr. James Dobson’s Focus on the Family must now edit their Canadian programs to remove ANYTHING that might deem critical of homosexuality, including BIBLE VERSES on the subject and information like the fact that according to the Centers for Disease Control, the majority of the cases of AIDS in the United States and Canada are men who engage in homosexual sex.
Center for Disease Control, HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report, 9, no 2 (May 1998).

Scott Brockie owner of Imaging Excellence. He was morally opposed to printing stuff for a local homosexual and lesbian group. He argued his freedom of religion under section 2(a) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. On Feb 24, 2000 The Ontario Rights Commission found him guilty and slapped him with a $5,000.00 fine. Guess where the fine money went to? The plaintiff and his homosexual group. Since then to make a point he has had to pay over 34 times this amount. He owes $170,000 for defending his religious conscience. Division court, “Brillinger and the Canadian lesbian and Gay Archives v. Imaging Excellence Inc. et al., Board of Inquiry Decisions, Ontario human Rights Commission, 29 September 1999.

Hugh Owens of Regina, Saskatchewan Canada took out an ad in response to all he was forced to abserve during Homosexual Pride Week. He felt that homosexuals had expressed their views ont eh street so he would take out an ad in his small town newspaper. The ad listed four Scripture references (Romans 1, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10) next to an equal sign and a drawing depicting two men holding hands. Superimposed on he line drawing was the universal red circle with a line through it, effectively summarizing the Scriptures listed.
Guilty. He was fined $4500.00. The newspaper was also fined. Merly listing bible verses in Canada is a fine.
Owens was fined by the Court of Queens Bench which upheld a 2001 ruling by the providences human rights tribunal. The tribunal said, “The slashed figures alone were not enough to communicate the hatred….but the addition of the Bible verses are more dangerous.” The Bench said that the tribunal “was correct in concluding that the advertisement can objectively be seen as exposing homosexuals to hatred or ridicule.”
Art Moore, “Bible Verses Regarded as Hate Literature,” WorldNetDaily, 18 February 2003.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31080.

“If C-415 becomes law in Canada, "the following consequences will result, especially once hate crime charges are brought before the courts":
· The Bible, at least certain portions of the Bible, may be declared "hate literature."
· Churches will not be able to mention certain Scriptures.
· Clergy may be subjected to criminal charges if they refuse to marry homosexuals.
· Parents may be subjected to criminal charges if they refuse to allow their children to attend classes that teach about and promote homosexual behavior.
· Expressing disagreement with homosexual behavior or the homosexual agenda, either verbally or in writing, would be considered hate propaganda.
· Educators, including those at private religious schools, will not be able to refuse to teach homosexual curriculum.
· Religious institutions will not be allowed to teach anything non-supportive of homosexual sex.
· Canadian Blood Services will not be allowed to screen risk-behavior donors.
· Governments (including local municipalities) will be prevented from passing (even debating) sex standards laws.”

AND IT PASSED……….

Mark Opposes Bill C-250 as it Passes in the House of Commons

A Swedish court sentenced a pastor belonging to the Pentecostal movement in Sweden, Ake Green, to a month in prison, under a law against incitement after he was found guilty of having offended homosexuals in a sermon. Soren Andersson president of the Swedish federation for lesbians, gay, bisexual and transgender rights said on hearing the sentence that religious freedom could never be used as a reason to offend people, “Therefore,” he told journalists, “I cannot regard the sentence as an act of interference with freedom of religion.”


“Swedish Pastor Sentenced to One Month’s Jail for Offending Homosexuals,” Ecumenical News International, 30 June 2004.


Sweden’s law bans “all speech and materials opposing homosexual behavior and other alternative lifestyles” and calls for up to 4 years in jail for violating it.

Reverend Dr. Peter Foster, Anglican Bishop of Chester, England was under police investigation for simply saying…..”Some people who are primary homosexuals can re-orientate themselves. I would encourage them to consider that as an option.” Police turned his case over for prosecution.
John Leo, “Stomping on Free Speech,” townhall.com, 12 April 2004.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/johnleo/jl20040412.shtml.

Ok how about in America…….

Case…Peterson v. Hewlett-Packard Co; a Christian worker exercised his right to free speech in response to a homosexual poster the company had placed next to his cubicle. He posted Bible verses to express his beliefs. HE WAS FIRED.
Court upholds Firing of Worker Who Opposed Gay Poster, finds Employer Did not Discriminate against Worker Based on His Religion,” The Employment Law authority, Ogletree Deakins February/March 2004, 8.

Sandia National Laboratories, New Mexico allowed homosexuals to have events honoring “coming out day”…Christians asked to bring in speakers to discuss evolution and creation. DENIED. Even after grudgingly recognizing the Christian group in settlement of a federal lawsuit, Sandia censored the Christians’ website by removing links to the Family Research Council and Exodus International- in the middle of “Gay Pride Month.,” which was widely advertised in Sandia's internal publications.


Julie Foster, “Christians Sue Lab for Discrimination: Accuse Sandia of Giving Special Rights To Gays, Denying Believers Equal Treatment,” World Net Daily, 2000.

A lesbian approached two Christian doctors in San Diego County, to be artificially inseminated. The doctors refused based on religious beliefs. The lesbian however did not show tolerance, she sued. A California appeals court found the doctors at fault.
This lesbian’s lawyer Jennifer Pizer appeared on Hannity and Combs, she said, “When the doctor is in her church she can do religion, but NOT in the medical office.”
Sears and Osten, The Homosexual Agenda, 185

Madison , Wisconsin….Ann Hacklander and Maureen Rowe looking for a roommate to share expenses. One of the applicants that applied was a lesbian . They selected another girl. The lesbian sued and won. Girls were ordered to pay $1,500.00 and forced to go to sensitivity training taught by HOMOSEXUALS. All because they did not select her for their roommate.
You cant even pick the person you want to live with. What if an applicant was male? A recently released felon?

State v

Now you might disagree with all of these cases and think these people were wrong.......but, their free speech was taken away. They were criminalized for their beliefs. Criminalization of religious speech? Certainly seems so.

 

[doughgirl]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Sweden,Sweden & Swedish laws, Sweden and hate crime, Swedish law and freedom of speech & hate crime, Pentecostal pastor Ake Green jailed hate crimes, Ake Green jailed hate crimes against homosexuality, Sweden, laws in Sweden Scandinavians by Albert M

Criminalizing Christianity: Sweden's Hate Speech Law


http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/Christophobia.htm

Ominous legislation now before Congress contains a hidden agenda that could make criminals of Christians.


http://www.hatelawsexposed.org/articles/hatecrimeswillmake.htm

But then you would probably think this was ok wouldn’t you?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I'm curious. How did this thread go from one on Christian conservatives vs. Islamic fundamentalists to one on an anti-gay position?

Moderator's Warning:

Now, more officially. Let's not thread-jack this; stay on topic. And the demeaning 'lack of intelligence' comments need to cease.

 

[Inuyasha]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Alright, if the goal is an actual exploration of the validity of the claim of the title, then you have to develop a theoretical explanation of why conservative christians (note, that is the term you used, christians who are conservative) are not much different than Islamic Fundamentalists, THEN you have to get empirical evidence that backs up your theoretical explanation.

Compare that to what you're taking as proof that the title is right, which is someone observing similarities between doughgirl (and doughgirl specifically) and extremists of any religion.

So thus the flaws:
a) your observations are not generalizable (unless you can explain why what she says is proof of what all other conservative christians would say)
b) you have absolutely no theoretical argument. What is it about conservatism that, when combined with christianity, generates the same sorts of effects as fundamental islam?

But of course, you're not looking to prove anything, or even argue a point. This **** exists SOLELY for the purpose of bigotry. Had you said "Christian fundamentalists" as opposed to "Conservative christians", maybe things would be different, but then it wouldn't be a jfuh-style thread, right?

There is nothing in the world that could prove the statement in the title of this thread true, because it is not true. There is absolutely nothing, ABSOLUTELY nothing that connects conservatism to fundamentalism on a theoretic basis. Fundamentalist christians in the US are more likely to vote with conservatives as a product of political alliegences that you always see in two party systems.

Is there anything about being pro-choice that makes you more likely to support Universal Health Care? Is there anything about thinking that greater government involvement in our lives that makes you more likely to be an atheist? Nothing other than political bargaining that has led to various interests banding together as the Democratic party.

The exact same goes for this ****. Conservatism is belief in the importance of tradition, and as a product of which belief that change should be slow and deliberate, the belief in smaller government (and all the economic beliefs associated with this), and the belief that peace is best preserved by superior strength. Now if I believe all of these things (which I do), and I believe that Jesus is my lord and savior (which I do), am I similar to a fundamental Islamist? Possibly, it DEPENDS ON THE ****ING INDIVIDUAL


But it's ok, just go on with your bigotry, but just ponder this. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that gives anything said in defense of this claim any more merit than arguments that jews are money grubbing, blacks don't read books, gay people are child molestors, or all hispanic Americans are lazy Mexican illegal immigrants. It's ****ing bigotry, and nothing more.

If you go back over this thread carefully tou will see that near the beginning I stated (an someone else did as well) that the tittle of the thread was miss leading because iwith regard to religion "conservative" and "fundalmentalist" indicate two entirely different schools of thought. There are fundamentalist Christians and they are like fundamentalist Muslims or fundamentalist Buddhist or whatever. At the same time there are conservative Christians and they are similar to conservative Muslims. Comparing like or similar groups may work well but making one group "conservative" and the other "fundamentalist" aborts any like comparison. This is the thrid time I have brought this up but I guess we would all rather rant than fix the problem which lies in the tittle.

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Our country was anything but secular back then. The founders were 99% Christian as was the country. And the Founders lives spoke for themselves. There never was separation of church and state. NEVER. It has only been a matter of decades since the SC ruled in the Everson case, essentially making Jeffersons phrase “separation of “church and state” the law of the land. The only place this phrase ever was documented was in his letter to the Danbury Baptists. The intentions of the Founders was perverted.

Please quote from our country's legal document, the U.S. Constitution, ANYTHING that indicates that the U.S.A. government is or ever was ANY religion whatsoever. The majority of founders were Christian, the majority of the population was Christian, the government is not.

Liberals are afraid, more like paranoid that one day this perversion might just be reversed.

IF we have freedom of religion, why do some Christians want to label the U.S. a "Chrisitian nation"? Are SOME Christians afraid that Christianity will NOT prevail?

Example…..Homosexual marriage. The people of Massachusetts voted into law a state regulation that prohibited the establishment of same sex marriage. BUT…….the liberal lawyers of their Supreme Court decided to IGNORE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. So the high court struck down the ban as unconstitutional, a move that will potentially destroy the institution of family in America. The people said one thing…….the LIBERAL courts said another. These left wing radical thugs dressed in robes thumb their nose at our Judeo-Christian history by deciding the fate of our country despite what THE PEOPLE WANT.

IF we have freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, then it CANNOT be subject to majority vote. IF matters of conscience are subject to majority vote, we no longer have freedom, we have majority rule on religion.

THE CONSTITUTION SAYS NOTHING ABOUT SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. THE CONSTITUTION NEVER EVEN MENTIONS THE WORD CHURCH.

The Constitution doesn't mention church....why is that? The Constitution doesn't mention GOD....why is that?

IMO you don’t, you don’t seem to on this board. We don’t have to change anything, people are free in America. And Christianity has been the model. I don’t even belong to a denomination, I go to a Bible church with no affiliation at all.

The question is: will people stay free in America? Our freedom is being assaulted by radical Christians who want to impose their version of America, and many moderate and liberal Christians do not see the danger.

BTW, isn't "Bible Church" redundant? Don't all Christian denominations use the Bible as a guide to worship and life?

Just for your information, it is not only non-Christians who value the separation of church and state and realize that it is the principle that protects our religious freedom. Check out this group:

About TIA - Interfaith Alliance

"TIA and our members work to ensure that America is a nation where religious belief and practice are free and voluntary, and that the government does not favor or discriminate against citizens based on their religious belief or non-belief."

 

[QueerNation]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Actually, when I see a cross I laugh Keep that in mind when you decide to even attempt to shove your christian ways upon rightful skeptics.

I would like to point out that the current "American" rule, the Illuminati, are using christianity as a tool to control the populace, and people like us (as in all those opposed to 'doughgirl') should just stand back, and be entertained.

So there, as you crusaders :spin: around in excitement over this "Christ" and his supposed return, we wait aback and are Those Who Know, or the Enlightened, if you will.

When I see a cross I am forever reminded of a nude and bloody man who willingly accepts the torture in a Supreme Act of sado-masochism.

 

[QueerNation]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I'm curious. How did this thread go from one on Christian conservatives vs. Islamic fundamentalists to one on an anti-gay position?

Moderator's Warning:

Now, more officially. Let's not thread-jack this; stay on topic. And the demeaning 'lack of intelligence' comments need to cease.

I think it's a very obvious: Because the vast majority of the modern American christian movement hates homosexuals as much as they hate Islam, the only difference is the name of the new 'boogeyman'. so I think those topics have a natural correlation because Christianity begats the same hate-mongering traits independent of what that hate is in response to.

Therefore, it is very much ON topic.

 

[doughgirl]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

“IF

we have freedom of religion, why do some Christians want to label the U.S. a "Chrisitian nation"? Are SOME Christians afraid that Christianity will NOT prevail?”

</B>
What I mean is to put prayer back into the schools where it always was. Being able to display the Ten commandments in any building. I am afraid that Liberals will make freedom of speech for people who have a faith in God a crime. Did you read the examples I posted? Canada is doing this as is Sweden. That is what I am afraid of. That pastors will not be able to read scripture or give Biblical interpretation without being arrested.


I noticed you did not even mention the examples I gave. :rofl

“IF we have freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, then it CANNOT be subject to majority vote. IF matters of conscience are subject to majority vote, we no longer have freedom, we have majority rule on religion.”

Then we would not be a government for the people and by the people now would we? Why do we need to have elections? Why go to the polls and vote at all, if right after the polls close, some liberal wacko judge overturns what the people decide. That happens all over the country, even in my state. Should the people have a say? Obviously you think it shouldn’t. hell all the Democrats have done since Gore lost the elections is to remind people how he got the general vote. But you say the general vote doesnt mean anything. So which is it?

“The Constitution doesn't mention church....why is that? The Constitution doesn't mention GOD....why is that?”

In the Year of our Lord? Now does that ring a bell grannie? Lord is Jesus Christ. All state constitutions back then included christian references. In fact most states back then required you to be a Christian if you seek public office. Why?

“The question is: will people stay free in America? Our freedom is being assaulted by radical Christians who want to impose their version of America, and many moderate and liberal Christians do not see the danger.’

Not if liberals have their way we wont. Christianity is being assaulted not paganism.

“BTW, isn't "Bible Church" redundant? Don't all Christian denominations use the Bible as a guide to worship and life?”

We are not a Christian denomination. We are a family of believers in Christ. We pay no dues to any affiliate Church. We believe the Bible as the literal word of God.

“When I see a cross I am forever reminded of a nude and bloody man who willingly accepts the torture in a Supreme Act of sado-masochism.”

No doubt a pagan interpretation.

“I think it's a very obvious: Because the vast majority of the modern American christian movement hates homosexuals as much as they hate Islam, the only difference is the name of the new 'boogeyman'. so I think those topics have a natural correlation because Christianity begats the same hate-mongering traits independent of what that hate is in response to.”

You are so wrong its not funny. I do not hate Muslims and I do not hate Gays. My uncle is gay, I love him to death. Its about standing on scripture. I have a friend who is having an affair on her husband. She goes against biblical scripture. She is a sinner just like a gay is……I don’t hate either one. Thats what you guys who hate and are threatened by Christians use as your excuse for just bashing Christians even more.
We do not hate anyone. You want us to hate........



True Christianity is love, it is even loving your enemies. And many Christians don’t practice what they preach.

 

[Inuyasha]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Here are a few things Christian fundamentalist "leaders" in the US are saying. The question is who and how many will be incited by these inflammatory statements that are no different from Islamic fundamentalists inflammatory rhetoric. I have only included one of the many statements made by Muslim fundamentalist "leaders". I know that there are enough strongly anti-Muslim folks here who can supply us with a deluge of commentary.


1. "...if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. ...the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."
Fundamentalist Christian Pat Robertson


2. "Democracy doesn't request for the ordinance of God who of course, knows best for mankind. Democracy acts from the selfish whims of depraved man and since man is depraved..."
Fundamentalist Christian group Citizens for 10 Commandments



3. "How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?”
Fundamentalist Christian Pat Robertson


4. "I want to be invisible. I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don't know it's over until you're in a body bag."
Fundamentalist Christian Ralph Reed


5. "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots."
Fundamentalist Christian George H. W. Bush



6. "The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation."
Fundamentalist Christian Pat Robertson


7. "No human being is allowed to legislate laws which are the right of God alone."
Islamic Fundamentalist group Al-Queda in Iraq

 

[OKgrannie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

</B>
What I mean is to put prayer back into the schools where it always was. Being able to display the Ten commandments in any building.

You do realize that anyone can pray anytime or anywhere? It is forbidden for government employees, such as teachers, to direct students or others to pray or to tell them they cannot. (Of course, students cannot disrupt class with prayers.) Would you want government employees to direct your children how or when to pray? Why do you think Jews and Christians should have exclusive use of public property (taxes paid by members of all religions and none) to advertise their religious faith? BTW, Jews, Protestants, and Catholics use different versions of the Ten Commandments, why do you think ONE should have exclusivity?

I am afraid that Liberals will make freedom of speech for people who have a faith in God a crime. Did you read the examples I posted? Canada is doing this as is Sweden. That is what I am afraid of. That pastors will not be able to read scripture or give Biblical interpretation without being arrested.
I noticed you did not even mention the examples I gave. :rofl

The First Amendment guarantees that government cannot interfere in religion. That is why government cannot endorse one religion on government property...it would be interfering with another religion.

Then we would not be a government for the people and by the people now would we? Why do we need to have elections? Why go to the polls and vote at all, if right after the polls close, some liberal wacko judge overturns what the people decide. That happens all over the country, even in my state. Should the people have a say? Obviously you think it shouldn’t. hell all the Democrats have done since Gore lost the elections is to remind people how he got the general vote. But you say the general vote doesnt mean anything. So which is it?

The PURPOSE of the Constitution is to LIMIT the power of government. The government cannot use the force of government, even if it is desired by a majority, to remove INDIVIDUAL rights.

In the Year of our Lord? Now does that ring a bell grannie? Lord is Jesus Christ. All state constitutions back then included christian references. In fact most states back then required you to be a Christian if you seek public office. Why?

A quaint method of stating the date was just a CUSTOM, not a legal requirement for anything. Where in the Constitution does it say that Christianity is required? Even preferred? Many states back then WERE theocracies, but they gave it up for FREEDOM.

 

[QueerNation]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

</B>
What I mean is to put prayer back into the schools where it always was. Being able to display the Ten commandments in any building. I am afraid that Liberals will make freedom of speech for people who have a faith in God a crime. Did you read the examples I posted? Canada is doing this as is Sweden. That is what I am afraid of. That pastors will not be able to read scripture or give Biblical interpretation without being arrested.


I noticed you did not even mention the examples I gave. :rofl




Then we would not be a government for the people and by the people now would we? Why do we need to have elections? Why go to the polls and vote at all, if right after the polls close, some liberal wacko judge overturns what the people decide. That happens all over the country, even in my state. Should the people have a say? Obviously you think it shouldn’t. hell all the Democrats have done since Gore lost the elections is to remind people how he got the general vote. But you say the general vote doesnt mean anything. So which is it?




In the Year of our Lord? Now does that ring a bell grannie? Lord is Jesus Christ. All state constitutions back then included christian references. In fact most states back then required you to be a Christian if you seek public office. Why?





Not if liberals have their way we wont. Christianity is being assaulted not paganism.




We are not a Christian denomination. We are a family of believers in Christ. We pay no dues to any affiliate Church. We believe the Bible as the literal word of God.




No doubt a pagan interpretation.





You are so wrong its not funny. I do not hate Muslims and I do not hate Gays. My uncle is gay, I love him to death. Its about standing on scripture. I have a friend who is having an affair on her husband. She goes against biblical scripture. She is a sinner just like a gay is……I don’t hate either one. Thats what you guys who hate and are threatened by Christians use as your excuse for just bashing Christians even more.
We do not hate anyone. You want us to hate........



True Christianity is love, it is even loving your enemies. And many Christians don’t practice what they preach.

I think that schools that allow Christian prayer should be burned to the ground along with the churches.

 

[Monk-Eye]

Flippant

"Flippant"

I think that schools that allow Christian prayer should be burned to the ground along with the churches.

The non-agression principle (also called the non-aggression axiom, anticoercion principle, or zero aggression principle) is a deontological ethical stance associated with the rights-theorist school of the libertarian movement (consequentialist libertarians do not subscribe to it[1]). It holds that "aggression," which is defined as the initiation of physical force, the threat of such, or fraud upon persons or their property, is inherently illegitimate. The principle does not preclude defense against aggression.

What is your point?

 

[aquapub]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamists who impose their beliefs on entire nations.

Sure, except for that thing about being entrenched in self-initiated bloodshed in every corner of the world...and the fact that Christian conservatives aren't violating anyone's rights. Other than everything remotely significant, they're just alike.

:lol:

 

[jfuh]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I think this is fair, and there's probably a good amount of similarities between myself and a similarly conservative muslim.

But yeah, misuse of terms is a common byproduct of bigotry, in that words become falsely synonymous. For example, to jfuh, I doubt the thought that maybe "conservative" and "fundamentalist" weren't synonymous crossed his mind, as he has internalized the stereotype that conservative christians are fundamentalists. Similarly, if I were to say "Hippies are all like Stalin", that would be a product of my anti-hippie bigotry, in that I have internalized the stereotype that all hippies are mindless socialists who, if not kept in check, will, as a product of their own stupidity, lead to the deaths of millions. Obviously this is not true, hell, I personally know enough smart hippies and even relatively moderate hippies to know that that **** ain't right. But yeah, as you said, who care's about saying what you mean to say analytically if the goal is just bigotry.

I don't need you to pretend to know who I am or what I think. For someone that has not read the entire thread and comes in only mid way through basing his argument on just one singular sentence.
But whatever it be, ignorance, arrogance or further self-righteousness, please shove it right back inside yourself and shut the **** up.
You of all ppl would be one to be bitching about this thread where as you have framed liberals within another thread with nothing but a stereotype and bigotry. In fact you've done so again here in this very post I'm responding to with the bs hippie statement.
Come out of your little fox hole and into the real world galen, and cut the bs of trying to single me out simply because I've got donkeys.
Shame on you.