All UK Parties must stand up against Islamophobia

[alexa]

says Shaistra Gohir

The intolerance towards Muslims must not be tolerated, but the main political parties have not pledged to take sufficient action to combat anti-Muslim prejudice. Legitimate criticism of Muslims who spew extremist rhetoric and commit criminal acts is acceptable. However, the ugly trend of bigotry against law-abiding Muslims sweeping Europe should not be ignored by whoever comes into power as it is influencing debate here in the UK.

In Europe extreme rightwing parties have won significant gains in regional and parliamentary elections because they have been exploiting fears and capitalising on anti-Muslim sentiments. Debates on Muslims have become irrational and there are calls to ban anything connected to Muslims – minarets, headscarves, veils and even the Qur'an.

All parties must stand up to Islamophobia | Shaista Gohir | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


and now,

Woman in Italy fine £430 for wearing a Nijab



A woman in Italy has been fined around £430 for wearing a Nijab in Italy. It seemed when stopped they showed papers which were in order and then the police demanded she remove her face covering. Her husband apparently said no and so they had to get a female officer. She was exactly who she was supposed to be but she was fined the money because they needed to get a woman to look at her.

As this law is concerning looking for terrorists, methinks it is just an excuse for hassling.

Muslim woman fined for wearing burqa in northern Italy | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

[mikhail]

Well what is she proposing to be done?

 

[Andalublue]

Woman in Italy fine £430 for wearing a Nijab

A woman in Italy has been fined around £430 for wearing a Nijab in Italy. It seemed when stopped they showed papers which were in order and then the police demanded she remove her face covering. Her husband apparently said no and so they had to get a female officer. She was exactly who she was supposed to be but she was fined the money because they needed to get a woman to look at her.

As this law is concerning looking for terrorists, methinks it is just an excuse for hassling.

Alexa, normally I would agree with you. I certainly agree with most of what was expressed in the attached article. I can't agree with you about the Italian case, however. The authorities, if they have laws requiring individuals to identify themselves on request, have every right to require that identification to take place or otherwise impose appropriate sanction. The wearing of the Niqab is a cultural and religious gesture which should not and cannot allow exemption from the secular law of the land.

This is not an argument for banning the wearing of the Niqab, I don't agree with that, it's a person's right to wear what they wish.

 

[Arcana XV]

I read an article yesterday that mentioned how they would pay the fine, even though it's quite high for their budget, and that in the future she would have to avoid going outside as much as possible. This is exactly what I always said would happen if these bans and fines were put in place. The people who wear these garments are extremely religious and they simply will not remove their face veils no matter what the cost financially and socially.

It will only make things worse for these women. If the intent was to help them and "liberate" them, these laws will backfire in a major way. But who cares, right? At least they'll remain out of sight and everything will suddenly be a-okay. :roll:

 

[alexa]

Alexa, normally I would agree with you. I certainly agree with most of what was expressed in the attached article. I can't agree with you about the Italian case, however. The authorities, if they have laws requiring individuals to identify themselves on request, have every right to require that identification to take place or otherwise impose appropriate sanction. The wearing of the Niqab is a cultural and religious gesture which should not and cannot allow exemption from the secular law of the land.

This is not an argument for banning the wearing of the Niqab, I don't agree with that, it's a person's right to wear what they wish.

That may be so but why are women in the UK not assumed to be terrorists if they wear the nijab too.

 

[alexa]

I read an article yesterday that mentioned how they would pay the fine, even though it's quite high for their budget, and that in the future she would have to avoid going outside as much as possible. This is exactly what I always said would happen if these bans and fines were put in place. The people who wear these garments are extremely religious and they simply will not remove their face veils no matter what the cost financially and socially.

It will only make things worse for these women. If the intent was to help them and "liberate" them, these laws will backfire in a major way. But who cares, right? At least they'll remain out of sight and everything will suddenly be a-okay. :roll:

I could not agree more. For women who are being forced or coerced in any way it will mean house imprisonment.

For those who choose, I am not sure how they will respond.

 

[alexa]

Well what is she proposing to be done?

She believes that in the UK British values of fair play, tolerance and mutual respect will prevail apart from the BNP and UKIP. I think they will too.

 

[Andalublue]

That may be so but why are women in the UK not assumed to be terrorists if they wear the nijab too.

Because the police do not have the right to require you to identify yourself on demand. The UK has no national identity card scheme (the proposal to institute one has been dropped) and the only circumstances where this woman would have had to remove her Niqab is if she were the driver.

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

Because the police do not have the right to require you to identify yourself on demand. The UK has no national identity card scheme (the proposal to institute one has been dropped) and the only circumstances where this woman would have had to remove her Niqab is if she were the driver.

The police have the power to ask anyone for their name and address and proof of same at any time.

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

I read an article yesterday that mentioned how they would pay the fine, even though it's quite high for their budget, and that in the future she would have to avoid going outside as much as possible. This is exactly what I always said would happen if these bans and fines were put in place. The people who wear these garments are extremely religious and they simply will not remove their face veils no matter what the cost financially and socially.

It will only make things worse for these women. If the intent was to help them and "liberate" them, these laws will backfire in a major way. But who cares, right? At least they'll remain out of sight and everything will suddenly be a-okay. :roll:

She wasn't fined for wearing it. She was fined for not removing it when asked to identify herself.

 

[Ockham]

The police have the power to ask anyone for their name and address and proof of same at any time.

Well in 42 states we have the same power, and the Federal Government's own laws here say the same thing. However, when a State decides to enact a State law that supports the Federal law and the illegals who are here don't like said law - it's obvious that this is some new fascist and bigoted measure. When in reality, it's following the existing letter of the law and enforcing it. The law put in place is being corrupted by those who play race baiters - not those who look at the facts.

I guess those who dislike the Arizona law would view your law the same way: Fascist / racist.

 

[alexa]

Because the police do not have the right to require you to identify yourself on demand. The UK has no national identity card scheme (the proposal to institute one has been dropped) and the only circumstances where this woman would have had to remove her Niqab is if she were the driver.

So you don't believe that picking on this particular woman out with her husband was for any reason other than to fine her £430 for wearing a nijab.

You do not believe that this is a set up and simply saves them setting laws like Belgium or France to get a ban specifically against Muslim women who wear face coverings.

There does not appear to be any reason for questioning this couple.

In what is reported to be the first such case amid proposals for sanctions against traditional Islamic dress in a series of European countries, the 26-year-old Tunisian woman was stopped by police in the city of Novara, a stronghold of the anti-immigration Northern League.

Although there was no problem with the couple's status, the woman was fined €500 under a municipal ordinance introduced in January that bans clothing preventing easy identification of the wearer in public buildings.

The measure was introduced by Novara's Northern League mayor, Massimo Giordano, Italy's Ansa news agency reported. It is based on a national anti-terrorism law passed in 1975 which was intended to prevent the wearing of masks or motorcycle helmets.

Some police spot checks were specifically aimed at stopping Muslim women from wearing face-covering garments, the town's police chief, Paolo Cortese, told Ansa.

 

[Arcana XV]

She wasn't fined for wearing it. She was fined for not removing it when asked to identify herself.

Burkas and niqabs are banned in all public places in the city of Novara where this couple resides. She absolutely was fined for wearing it.

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

Burkas and niqabs are banned in all public places in the city of Novara where this couple resides. She absolutely was fined for wearing it.

The husband was able to produce papers for the couple, but he refused to allow the male officers to see his wife's unveiled face to confirm her identity. This was done when a female officer was called to the scene

Then what is that part about?

 

[alexa]

Then what is that part about?

The 1975 ban aimed at motor cyclists has been deliberately brought in in order to fine Muslim women wearing burka's or Nijabs.

"Unfortunately it is apparently not yet clear to everyone that clothes preventing the wearer's identification can be tolerated at home but not in public places, in schools, on buses or in post offices," he said. "There are still some people that refuse to understand that our community in Novara does not accept and does not want people going around wearing the burqa."

According to the news agency, two other municipalities in northern Italy have issued anti-burqa rules based on the 1975 law. The AFP news agency quoted police as saying they believed it was the first time a fine had been imposed.

The law has been brought it deliberately to target Muslims wearing face coverings as the above quote shows.

They must stay in their homes.

 

[Arcana XV]

Then what is that part about?

The local police doing their job.

My point was that both bans and fines are not going to help these women assimilate into the local culture any faster. This particular woman will now be forced to stay home to avoid risking another fine.

 

[Andalublue]

So you don't believe that picking on this particular woman out with her husband was for any reason other than to fine her £430 for wearing a nijab.

You do not believe that this is a set up and simply saves them setting laws like Belgium or France to get a ban specifically against Muslim women who wear face coverings.

There does not appear to be any reason for questioning this couple.

I have no way of knowing, as with the arrested preacher in Workington, the article doesn not give us sufficient information, nor report what both parties in the matter claim took place. We may have our suspicions, but we really can't jump to conclusions without proof. What I believe may have been the case is hardly relevant since I wasn't there and don't have the full facts.

 

[mikhail]

She believes that in the UK British values of fair play, tolerance and mutual respect will prevail apart from the BNP and UKIP. I think they will too.

Well than whats the problem?

 

[alexa]

Well than whats the problem?

The concern is the way the rest of Europe is going

 

[alexa]

I have no way of knowing, as with the arrested preacher in Workington, the article doesn not give us sufficient information, nor report what both parties in the matter claim took place. We may have our suspicions, but we really can't jump to conclusions without proof. What I believe may have been the case is hardly relevant since I wasn't there and don't have the full facts.

The article is clear that the use of the 1975 law which was brought in for motor cyclists is being deliberately used against Muslim women wearing the Burka and nijab.

again

Some police spot checks were specifically aimed at stopping Muslim women from wearing face-covering garments, the town's police chief, Paolo Cortese, told Ansa.

"Unfortunately it is apparently not yet clear to everyone that clothes preventing the wearer's identification can be tolerated at home but not in public places, in schools, on buses or in post offices," he said. "There are still some people that refuse to understand that our community in Novara does not accept and does not want people going around wearing the burqa."

According to the news agency, two other municipalities in northern Italy have issued anti-burqa rules based on the 1975 law.

I am not sure how much more clear it could be.

 

[mikhail]

The concern is the way the rest of Europe is going

Yes but many of these countries like Italy and France have more of a tradition of you must become culturally french than a more indifferent attitude like the UK.

However there certainly are pretty worrying polls that come out of the muslim communities.

 

[Alvin T. Grey]

The local police doing their job.

My point was that both bans and fines are not going to help these women assimilate into the local culture any faster. This particular woman will now be forced to stay home to avoid risking another fine.

It reads like a classic case of they pissed off the local cops so they slapped them with a fine. Its a tactic usually used for obnoxious drunks etc.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Instead of just whining about Iswamophobia, the likes of the squeaky Left should ask how we came to such a situation in the first place.


Take us. The way I see it is that the first generation of large-scale Muslim immigrants just wanted to settle in and mix with everyone else by and large. Indeed, any genuine aggressive racism of the old days would be aimed more at 'Pakis' than at 'Muslims'.

But more recently, swaggering second-generation Muslims of mainly Pakistani origin have been pressing for Islamic this, Sharia that, Caliphate the other and no-go area to top it. Not just a radicalisation amongst the younger Muslims but also sympathy for terrorist supremacist aggression in its name. The likes of open-door immigration have allowed swathes of our towns and cities to become effective segregated areas full of people who insist on being different (either volatile or benign), even unapproachable in cases.

How do you react to that? How do you cap it and sort it out, short of sending them 'home'? We've just got to do what we think is best, voting for those who to us'll sort out the Islamification problem. 'Different culture' is one thing but it's a line in the sand thing with cases like this.

 

[Gardener]

Her husband apparently said no and so they had to get a female officer.

Yes, because she is a piece of property and not a human being.

and, of course, in your world, anybody who might oppose this situation is an "Islamophobe".

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

That's sexism which the liberal-leftists NEVER criticise, albeit if you don't prod them.

Then they wonder why the gulf between they and the non-PC public grows ever wider.