AfTer Ferguson: Stop deferrring to the cops

[upsideguy]

ALL the black folks who are shot by a cop are just victims of racism?

How do you translate "...the degree to which..." into "ALL"? I was dealing with propensities not certainties. You do have a problem reading into things.

 

[apdst]

How do you translate "...the degree to which..." into "ALL"? I was dealing with propensities not certainties. You do have a problem reading into things.

Because, at no time have any of you left any room for the shooting of a black person, by a white cop to be justified.

 

[blaxshep]

Because, at no time have any of you left any room for the shooting of a black person, by a white cop to be justified.

Except that the black thug assaulted the white cop.

 

[upsideguy]

Racism is an ebbing tide. An even better metaphor for racism might be smoking. Once widespread and public, it is increasingly marginalized and unacceptable in polite society. That is happy news for our country, but it has little to do with the daily battle of police work, where polite society is rarely involved.

Au contraire! As the articles consistently point out, racism is alive and well in law enforcement. I dare say that "police work" often provides safe haven for racists. The fact that people can not see any racism in the Ferguson matter suggests we are more than willing to look the other way at issues of racism within the judicial process.

 

[Papa bull]

Au contraire! As the articles consistently point out, racism is alive and well in law enforcement. I dare say that "police work" often provides safe haven for racists. The fact that people can not see any racism in the Ferguson matter suggests we are more than willing to look the other way at issues of racism within the judicial process.

You've got a point about racism being alive and well and Ferguson being proof. The fact that blacks rioted and looted and pillaged th town because Darren Wilson wasn't indicted for the crime of being white is unequivocal evidence of intense racism.

 

[upsideguy]

Because, at no time have any of you left any room for the shooting of a black person, by a white cop to be justified.

You misinterpreted my point. I never intended, nor do I believe I ever represented, the idea the shooting of a black person by a white cop is never justified. I have serious questions in the particular case we are discussing, but since this never went to trial, those questions get to remain unanswered.

I do, however, draw the distinction that there are times were a shooting is within the rights of the cop, but not justified. In the case of Ferguson, it was determined to be either within his rights (and/or without sufficient evidence to prosecute)...... I guess you could conclude that it was justified, but that would be a leap in the actual determination of the grand jury.... and, I would suggest that "justified" is a moral issue that is a higher standard than "within his rights", which is a legal issue.

I think I can live with the notion that Wilson's shooting of Brown was within Wilson's rights; I don't believe that it was justified, as I think a more professional and compassionate law enforcement officer could have diffused the situation without a death.

 

[upsideguy]

You've got a point about racism being alive and well and Ferguson being proof. The fact that blacks rioted and looted and pillaged th town because Darren Wilson wasn't indicted for the crime of being white is unequivocal evidence of intense racism.

"...Riots are the language of the unheard..... " Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[Jack Hays]

Au contraire! As the articles consistently point out, racism is alive and well in law enforcement. I dare say that "police work" often provides safe haven for racists. The fact that people can not see any racism in the Ferguson matter suggests we are more than willing to look the other way at issues of racism within the judicial process.

Yours is a claim without foundation. In Ferguson a thief attacked a cop and was shot.

 

[Papa bull]

"...Riots are the language of the unheard..... " Martin Luther King, Jr.

Riots are the temper tantrums of adult spoiled brats that don't get their way.

 

[upsideguy]

Yours is a claim without foundation. In Ferguson a thief attacked a cop and was shot.

That is your conclusion of what is out there. You conclusion may or may not be the truth. In the end, its only your opinion.

Moreover, if you read any of the articles I previously posted you would understand the background of all of this, and would be better positioned to understand the larger picture here (the events happened in a backdrop. The riots did not occur because of a single event... ) and might reach a different conclusion.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/24/opinion/reyes-ferguson-grand-jury/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

 

[upsideguy]

"...Riots are the language of the unheard..... " Martin Luther King, Jr.

Riots are the temper tantrums of adult spoiled brats that don't get their way.

OK... we have a profound quote by Martin Luther King, Jr., an expert in social strive, and a less than profound quote by Papa Bull, an expert in ???. I know which one is more insightful and credible.

 

[Papa bull]

OK... we have a profound quote by Martin Luther King, Jr., an expert in social strive, and a less than profound quote by Papa Bull, an expert in ???. I know which one is more insightful and credible.

It's rhetoric. You just like the rhetoric that defends rioting as just "the speech of the unheard". Problem is the people in Ferguson were heard and I'm sure we both know, Martin Luther King would not likely have been supportive of the rioting, pillaging, looting and burning efforts in Ferguson. There was no excuse for it.

 

[Jack Hays]

That is your conclusion of what is out there. You conclusion may or may not be the truth. In the end, its only your opinion.

Moreover, if you read any of the articles I previously posted you would understand the background of all of this, and would be better positioned to understand the larger picture here (the events happened in a backdrop. The riots did not occur because of a single event... ) and might reach a different conclusion.

I'm originally from the Midwest, have friends in the St. Louis area, and have spent quite a bit of time there. I need no help understanding the background to recent events in Ferguson. The fact that our country, the most diverse in the world, has not yet achieved the level of social integration we would all like does not change the facts of the case: a thief attacked a cop and was shot.

 

[upsideguy]

I didn't read all the linked material, mostly because it was in large part bull**** playing with stats to gin up a story. None of them that I could see even included the number of cops who are black who shoot black perps. The assumption is all cops are white and they all like to shoot blacks. Btw, St Louis does have black officers. If they are going after blacks heavily that could easily be that there is a heavier percentage of blacks doing criminal acts than whites in those communities.

This article did indeed discuss the shooting habits of white vs black officers on white vs black targets....

Deadly Force, in Black and White - ProPublica

I appreciate that you did not read ALL of the articles because of....whatever... but, you did not offer up equivalent (or any evidence) for your position. First off. the articles included some real research with methodologies discussed... you position includes real impressions, for which you offer ZERO support. In a real debate, you just lost. Perhaps you should offer up an equivalent retort to my post or do not play....

 

[Jack Hays]

This article did indeed discuss the shooting habits of white vs black officers on white vs black targets....

Deadly Force, in Black and White - ProPublica

I appreciate that you did not read ALL of the articles because of....whatever... but, you did not offer up equivalent (or any evidence) for your position. First off. the articles included some real research with methodologies discussed... you position includes real impressions, for which you offer ZERO support. In a real debate, you just lost. Perhaps you should offer up an equivalent retort to my post or do not play....

The ProPublica numbers reflect the population pool of violent criminals more than the racial attitudes of police. The key number, hidden deep in the article, is that 78% of suspects shot dead by black police officers are black.

 

[ocean515]

This article did indeed discuss the shooting habits of white vs black officers on white vs black targets....

Deadly Force, in Black and White - ProPublica

I appreciate that you did not read ALL of the articles because of....whatever... but, you did not offer up equivalent (or any evidence) for your position. First off. the articles included some real research with methodologies discussed... you position includes real impressions, for which you offer ZERO support. In a real debate, you just lost. Perhaps you should offer up an equivalent retort to my post or do not play....

ProPublica is not a credible source, nor is the simple analysis they presented do anything other than create a probability risk, without any correlation to mitigating factors that would be critical to a credible analysis.

Perhaps an analysis not funded by member of the Progressive Machine would add credibility to your position.

 

[SMTA]

I'm originally from the Midwest, have friends in the St. Louis area, and have spent quite a bit of time there. I need no help understanding the background to recent events in Ferguson. The fact that our country, the most diverse in the world, has not yet achieved the level of social integration we would all like does not change the facts of the case: a thief attacked a cop and was shot.

Technically incorrect - a thief who also assaulted a police officer was shot.

 

[eohrnberger]

Research, research, research.

I've done a lot of reading-I suggest that you do the same.

Some people in the USA 'just don't get it' and some of them never will. :roll:


"What goes around, comes around."

Don't see how that applies in this situation. My research leads me to believe that the investigation was thorough, unbiased, and just, arriving at an accurate conclusion.

What's your beef with the investigation?

Crickets. My guess is you just don't like the verdict / conclusion that the grand jury came to, as it doesn't speak to, nor support your ideology.

That challenge is before you. Substantiate you position that the investigation was improper in some way. My position is that it wasn't.

 

[polgara]

Crickets. My guess is you just don't like the verdict / conclusion that the grand jury came to, as it doesn't speak to, nor support your ideology.

That challenge is before you. Substantiate you position that the investigation was improper in some way. My position is that it wasn't.

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

What some like to conveniently overlook is the fact that there were blacks on that grand jury who made the decision in Ferguson! This wasn't an all-white group deciding something! How could any other outcome be expected when "witnesses" either outright lied or changed their stories when questioned, and when it was proven some weren't even in the area at the time! Holder asking for three autopsies because the results showed other than what he wanted them to show - ie, the 300-pound "child" was not shot in the back after all - and the officer's side of the story may have been the truth! Sheesh!

 

[eohrnberger]

Some people in the USA 'just don't get it' and some of them never will. :roll:




"What goes around, comes around."

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

What some like to conveniently overlook is the fact that there were blacks on that grand jury who made the decision in Ferguson! This wasn't an all-white group deciding something! How could any other outcome be expected when "witnesses" either outright lied or changed their stories when questioned, and when it was proven some weren't even in the area at the time! Holder asking for three autopsies because the results showed other than what he wanted them to show - ie, the 300-pound "child" was not shot in the back after all - and the officer's side of the story may have been the truth! Sheesh!

Greetings, Polgara. :2wave:

Indeed. So many people are steeped in the victim / White Privilege / Liberal guilt mentality and ideology as force fed to them by the race hustlers, they make **** up if they have to, which is exactly what many of the witnesses did. More to pity, I'm sure that exactly how those witnesses remember the events, so one could legitimately state that the race hustlers ARE brainwashing those that they claim to be helping, but are in fact hurting them.

 

[Caine]

A. There is zero evidence that Officer Wilson had any racial motivation whatsoever when defending his life.

B. Immediately assuming race is an issue here at all, makes those who jump to that conclusion a racist in my book. When your first response to anything that occurs to a black person is racism with no other evidence.... im sorry. but it is what you are.

C. If you believe this is a race issue, please provide specific facts about Officer Wilson that support your theory.

D. If you can't... then STFU.

E. This "HUGE PROBLEM" the OP speaks of, is all in young black males heads.

D. Any "Discussions" on race that need to be had as a result of situations like this or Zimmerman, leave white people out of that lecture, we aren't the ones who need it.

 

[Jack Hays]

[h=3]Giuliani: Michael Brown Death Never Should Have Gone to a Grand Jury[/h]After days of nation-wide protesting and rioting over the grand jury decision to not indict former Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, former New York