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Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

j-mac

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Several hundred Afghans chanting "Death to America" rallied outside a mosque in the Afghan capital on Monday to protest against an American church's plan to burn a copy of the Koran on the anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
Afghan protesters shout slogans during a protest in Kabul

The protesters, mostly students from religious schools, gathered outside Kabul's Milad ul-Nabi mosque to condemn plans by the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Centre to burn copies of the Koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the attacks against the United States.

"We call on America to stop desecrating our Holy Koran," student Wahidullah Nori told Reuters. He said the street protests condemning the church would continue "every day."

snip

The U.S. Embassy in Kabul said the "United States government in no way condones such acts of disrespect against the religion of Islam, and is deeply concerned about deliberate attempts to offend members of religious or ethnic groups."

"Americans from all religious and ethnic backgrounds reject this offensive initiative by this small group in Florida, a great number of American voices are protesting the hurtful statements made by this organisation," it said in a statement.

Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran  - Yahoo! News UK

Let me open with this disclaimer. I do NOT condone what this church in Florida plans to do. I think it is intolerant, and inciting while American lives are in direct contact danger in the ME.

But I would like to delve beyond the usual argument here, and discuss why it is ok, seemingly, for members of Islam to constantly desecrate things like the American Flag, and burn churches and bibles over there, while here it raises nary a story, but have one whacked church here threaten to burn a Koran, and all hell breaks loose in the press, and on the ground there.


j-mac
 

rathi

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The American news media tends to focus on what happens in our country rather than abroad. I bet that some church in Russia burning a koran wouldn't get media attention here either.
 

VanceMack

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Let me open with this disclaimer. I do NOT condone what this church in Florida plans to do. I think it is intolerant, and inciting while American lives are in direct contact danger in the ME.

But I would like to delve beyond the usual argument here, and discuss why it is ok, seemingly, for members of Islam to constantly desecrate things like the American Flag, and burn churches and bibles over there, while here it raises nary a story, but have one whacked church here threaten to burn a Koran, and all hell breaks loose in the press, and on the ground there.
j-mac
I suspect that whackjobs that will threaten to murder people because of cartoons would be particularly incensed by the burning of the Koran. I think the people that will burn the Koran (Quran, Qu'ran...dammit...pick a spelling we can all live with...) are idiots and personally...I think it is a lot like burning a flag. Oh...you may have a constitutional right to do so...just dont be shocked when you get knocked on your ass.
 

j-mac

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I suspect that whackjobs that will threaten to murder people because of cartoons would be particularly incensed by the burning of the Koran. I think the people that will burn the Koran (Quran, Qu'ran...dammit...pick a spelling we can all live with...) are idiots and personally...I think it is a lot like burning a flag. Oh...you may have a constitutional right to do so...just dont be shocked when you get knocked on your ass.
I agree, but I guess that the question is that it seems quite a disproportionate response. I mean when Hamas burns a church, or kills innocent Jews with indiscriminate rocket fire aimed at civilian population centers I don't see throngs of people here chanting "death to Hamas" or burning their flag. Instead quite the opposite here, I see no shortage of political idealists spouting tolerance, and taking up their cause here.

j-mac
 

MKULTRABOY

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They find it particularly mind blowing that other sons of abraham would destroy a copy of God's word, hence, they could only be infidels. :shrug:
 

j-mac

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The American news media tends to focus on what happens in our country rather than abroad. I bet that some church in Russia burning a koran wouldn't get media attention here either.
Why do you suppose such a myopic view exists?

j-mac
 

j-mac

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They find it particularly mind blowing that other sons of abraham would destroy a copy of God's word, hence, they could only be infidels. :shrug:
So their answer is to kill them?


j-mac
 

PeteEU

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Let me open with this disclaimer. I do NOT condone what this church in Florida plans to do. I think it is intolerant, and inciting while American lives are in direct contact danger in the ME.

But I would like to delve beyond the usual argument here, and discuss why it is ok, seemingly, for members of Islam to constantly desecrate things like the American Flag, and burn churches and bibles over there, while here it raises nary a story, but have one whacked church here threaten to burn a Koran, and all hell breaks loose in the press, and on the ground there.


j-mac
Burning of religious material is wrong regardless of who is doing it. What the evangelical nutjobs are doing is stooping to the level of ignorant peasants pushed into a frenzy by their a bit more educated religious leaders.

As for the American flag.. who cares, it is just a flag. American's wear US flag underwear and no one complains.. what is more a front.. burning a flag or taking a piss and fart on it?
 

ric27

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Burning of religious material is wrong regardless of who is doing it. What the evangelical nutjobs are doing is stooping to the level of ignorant peasants pushed into a frenzy by their a bit more educated religious leaders.

As for the American flag.. who cares, it is just a flag. American's wear US flag underwear and no one complains.. what is more a front.. burning a flag or taking a piss and fart on it?
I don't have much of a problem with blasting a koran and using the remains for toilet paper
 

MKULTRABOY

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So their answer is to kill them?

j-mac
My answer is that we should ask ourselves how were doing things that make people want to kill us. We could always revert to this particular church's opinion, however and burn the Qu'ran in answer and continue the cycle of vitriol.
 

Aunt Spiker

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When I hear of people burning the American flag - I'm not touched by it emotionally (angered) - my thought is "nice attempt at trying to piss me off . . . but it's not working" - because I don't value material things.

If people didn't value *the book* or *the flag* or *the disk* then it being piled and burned won't *mean* anything - and thus - people won't do it anymore because it's pointless.

Some people just love to piss other people off - the more bothered you are by things the more opportunities there are to take advantage of.

in my younger years taht was like an invite to crash someone's party.
 

VanceMack

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I agree, but I guess that the question is that it seems quite a disproportionate response. I mean when Hamas burns a church, or kills innocent Jews with indiscriminate rocket fire aimed at civilian population centers I don't see throngs of people here chanting "death to Hamas" or burning their flag. Instead quite the opposite here, I see no shortage of political idealists spouting tolerance, and taking up their cause here.

j-mac
Disproportion is relative. Hell we are talking about a sect of people that support stoning people for teaching girls over a certain age to read. If you have a child that has sex before marriage, well...you have a talk. Extremists (even in this country) kill the child for dishonoring the family. So this kind of behavior to people like that is kinda tame actually.
 

VanceMack

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My answer is that we should ask ourselves how were doing things that make people want to kill us. We could always revert to this particular church's opinion, however and burn the Qu'ran in answer and continue the cycle of vitriol.
So wait...religous groups in this country should kill college students or 'radicals' that want to make a point by burning a Bible and that would make us be more empathetic to the religous groups?
 

MKULTRABOY

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Since when were american religious groups and muslim religious groups qualitatively the same thing in your eyes?

And youre already insinuating that I support killing people. Do shut up.
 

j-mac

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Since when were american religious groups and muslim religious groups qualitatively the same thing in your eyes?

Isn't that the argument behind support for the Islamic Center at GZ? that they are qualitatively the same as building a Christian Church on that site?


j-mac
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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Burning of religious material is wrong regardless of who is doing it. What the evangelical nutjobs are doing is stooping to the level of ignorant peasants pushed into a frenzy by their a bit more educated religious leaders.

As for the American flag.. who cares, it is just a flag.
So destroying one symbol that many hold near and dear is fine, but destroying another is barbaric?

American's wear US flag underwear and no one complains.. what is more a front.. burning a flag or taking a piss and fart on it?
It's stupid; I'll agree with that, but at least it generally isn't done with any kind of malice.
 

VanceMack

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Since when were american religious groups and muslim religious groups qualitatively the same thing in your eyes?

And youre already insinuating that I support killing people. Do shut up.
Damn...falling all over yourself to 'understand' muslims kinda either forces you to 'understand' Christians or makes you look like a dumbass. Kinda stung huh?
I didnt 'insinuate' you endorsed murder...I pointed very clearly to the hypocricy which you so CAPABLY demonstrated in the first line.
 

SgtRock

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People in the US pay to see an art exhibit of piss christ



In Austria a museum has an exhibit of anti semitic art



Throughout much of the muslim world churches and synagogues are banned.

In Egypt Coptic Christians churches are burned by mobs of muslims who are not arrested. In fact the authorities turn thier heads.



In Pakistan christians are murdered simply for being christian and the muslim perps are let off scott free.

And we are concerned that a church in Florida is going to burn a qu'ran. Could we have a little perspective please?
 

MKULTRABOY

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Damn...falling all over yourself to 'understand' muslims kinda either forces you to 'understand' Christians or makes you look like a dumbass. Kinda stung huh?
I didnt 'insinuate' you endorsed murder...I pointed very clearly to the hypocricy which you so CAPABLY demonstrated in the first line.
Look. you just won an argument against yourself in your own head, go flagellate in your yard or something :doh

I totally condone the murder of christians, guys.
 

ric27

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And we are concerned that a church in Florida is going to burn a qu'ran. Could we have a little perspective please?
Someone has to bring a package of uncooked bacon. It flies pretty good when you throw it.
 

GodsWrath

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Let me open with this disclaimer. I do NOT condone what this church in Florida plans to do. I think it is intolerant, and inciting while American lives are in direct contact danger in the ME.

But I would like to delve beyond the usual argument here, and discuss why it is ok, seemingly, for members of Islam to constantly desecrate things like the American Flag, and burn churches and bibles over there, while here it raises nary a story, but have one whacked church here threaten to burn a Koran, and all hell breaks loose in the press, and on the ground there.


j-mac

Its not ok for muslims to do that either... All the qualified saudi Alem's (religious leaders, who surprisingly are actually oppressed in saudi arabia since they can't speak out..much like in egypt) have ALL condemned, suicide bombing, burning of other Holy scriptures, and the killing of innocent civilians
 

1069

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Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran.
I think they should retaliate by wiping their butts with Bible pages, and then scattering them around the church lawn.
 

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Let me open with this disclaimer. I do NOT condone what this church in Florida plans to do. I think it is intolerant, and inciting while American lives are in direct contact danger in the ME.

But I would like to delve beyond the usual argument here, and discuss why it is ok, seemingly, for members of Islam to constantly desecrate things like the American Flag, and burn churches and bibles over there, while here it raises nary a story, but have one whacked church here threaten to burn a Koran, and all hell breaks loose in the press, and on the ground there.


j-mac
The answer is that it is not 'okay' for Islam to desecrate the American flag, burn churches, or destroy Bibles. When the so-called liberal/conservative media reports on such things, it's because Americans - conservatives and liberals alike - think to themselves "Wow! What a bunch of idiots over there doing this kinda stuff!" But we expect such things to happen in those backwater theocracies, so it surprises none of us. And because it doesn't generate divisiveness, such things come and go out of the press pretty quickly. But given that the world is full of weirdos, the press can inevitably dig up some dude who thinks they are right to burn the flag, Obama is a Muslim, and America is run by the Illuminati. Some folks may take this strange fellow seriously, but most of us just think he's an idiot, and this story, too, dies out fast.

When it happens over here, the stories get all discombobulated. A church wants to burn a Koran, folks get upset for whatever reason. They may be Muslims, or they may simply not want this kinda thing to take place over here as well. Or some could even be like me - viewing both religions as equally silly, and wondering why folks really care that some book is being burnt to piss off the other guys. Whatever the reason, this leads said Koran-burners to label those opposing their holy bonfire as Muslim apologists; specifically, liberal, politically-correct Muslim apologists, because when you are gonna start targetting a religious group, you gotta throw in a few more adjectives to include folks who are politically opposed to you. That way, you've successfully mixed politics AND religion, and the arguments can continue for even longer. And since emotionally-charged opinions are a sure-fire way to keep folks watching your programs, such stories are in the news for much longer periods of time.

By the same token, if Muslims in the West decide to burn a few Bibles to illustrate that they are capable of making uneducated decisions as well, then an equal amount of stupidity follows. Said Bible-burners don't stop at burning the American flag and New Testament, either. They gotta throw a lotta death threats towards anyone who ever said anything bad about their religion, and by 'bad', I mean anything that expresses a different, intelligent point of view often laced with humor. Such people might include atheists, authors, and cartoonists, but are certainly not limited to any one group.

You'd think that after a time, folks with different religions would learn to get along with one another. After all, the history of religion is filled with the blood of nonbelievers. Yet here we are, burning the Koran, desecrating the flag, and blowing up nice restaurants where folks simply wanted to have a night out on the town, enjoying some baklava and good conversation.
 
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1069

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Or some could even be like me - viewing both religions as equally silly, and wondering why folks really care that some book is being burnt to piss off the other guys.

That would be my standpoint as well.
 
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