Advice about a 4-1/2-year-old

[MaggieD]

Some of you may remember me talking about this little boy in the past -- it would be Tom's, let's see, nephew once-removed or some-such. As he's been adopted by Tom's sister (his great-grandmother), he's Tom's nephew. We see quite a bit of him.

He's a normal little boy. Very well behaved for the most part because his father is pretty strict with him. And, of course, they've had lots of experience raising kids.

His dad swears. "Stupid ****." "**** it!" "****in' whatever." He tries not to now (and may not, as far as I know), but he's done it enough so that the little boy's picked it up. And, not surprisingly, he uses it in correct context -- both at home and at pre-school.

Other than that, he's a good little boy. They've tried to cure him (for one reason, school's complained) by spankings, hot sauce, etc. And it hasn't quite worked. (Yeah, I know; don't even talk to me about it.)

I thought I might make a suggestion to them: Give him $5 a week allowance. He has to save half. Then, for every time he uses a swear word, he loses 50-cents. So five times in a week and he's broke. If he's successful? He gets to take his $$ to the dollar store or wherever and buy what he wants. If not? Better luck next week.

Does this sound like a good alternative to suggest to spanking and hot sauce or soap?

 

[lizzie]

Oh man, that's a tough one. When they are picking it up at home, it's a bit hypocritical to expect them not to regurgitate it. The money/allowance/penalty idea may work, depending on whether or not the little boy is swayed enough by material possessions. My concern is that he will be unable to reconcile what he sees at home, with what is expected of him. Poor kid.

 

[MaggieD]

Oh man, that's a tough one. When they are picking it up at home, it's a bit hypocritical to expect them not to regurgitate it. The money/allowance/penalty idea may work, depending on whether or not the little boy is swayed enough by material possessions. My concern is that he will be unable to reconcile what he sees at home, with what is expected of him. Poor kid.

I ought to suggest that Dad has to put 50-cents in a jar to treat everybody at McDonald's.

Not that anybody's going to listen to me anyway, you understand. Ha! I just feel sorry for the little guy.

 

[Fisher]

Well it isn't worse than what they are doing, but I am not a fan of bribing kids and if the other things are not working, I am guessing this is attention seeking behavior. It hasn't been a problem with us too much. We try not to react too much when the kids use profanity at home unless it is the F word or Sh*t because too many people in both our families curse. We have steered them by example toward alternate less offensive words like shoot, darn, dagnabbit, etc. Mommy and Daddy punish each other in front of the kids when we slip up (meaning when I slip up) as an example, which has the added bonus of the kids ratting me out which indirectly reinforces it is not acceptable because they think it is fun to narc on me. We also try to get them to accept that there are words that we don't use in church/public just like we behave differently.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Some of you may remember me talking about this little boy in the past -- it would be Tom's, let's see, nephew once-removed or some-such. As he's been adopted by Tom's sister (his great-grandmother), he's Tom's nephew. We see quite a bit of him.

He's a normal little boy. Very well behaved for the most part because his father is pretty strict with him. And, of course, they've had lots of experience raising kids.

His dad swears. "Stupid ****." "**** it!" "****in' whatever." He tries not to now (and may not, as far as I know), but he's done it enough so that the little boy's picked it up. And, not surprisingly, he uses it in correct context -- both at home and at pre-school.

Other than that, he's a good little boy. They've tried to cure him (for one reason, school's complained) by spankings, hot sauce, etc. And it hasn't quite worked. (Yeah, I know; don't even talk to me about it.)

I thought I might make a suggestion to them: Give him $5 a week allowance. He has to save half. Then, for every time he uses a swear word, he loses 50-cents. So five times in a week and he's broke. If he's successful? He gets to take his $$ to the dollar store or wherever and buy what he wants. If not? Better luck next week.

Does this sound like a good alternative to suggest to spanking and hot sauce or soap?

I think that might work, but only if the parents also adhere to cleaning out their mouths. That's an adversarial age, and he won't get it if they're still swearing all the time.

My parents did something kind of similar with me when I wanted a kitty. I was almost twice his age, but the concept was the same. I got my allowance for helping with our other animals (a dog and a bird). For failing to do my chores, I lost part of my allowance, and I needed to have a certain number of straight weeks of full allowance in order to get a kitty.

It definitely motivated me. I made my way there pretty fast (only a bit of lost money), and as you know, reaped the rewards for 15 years.

My dad did the same thing again 6 or 7 years later when I wanted my first tattoo. After he approved of the subject matter, he said I needed to have the money to pay for it, plus tip, in a year, which was the soonest he'd sign for me to get it. I got a job, and I did that too, and still love my first tattoo 8 years later. I also put away the extra for when I went traveling after graduation.

Money can motivate. But I suggest an end goal. In these cases, the first time was (symbolically, at least) a goal of how much I needed to make to get a cat. The second was literally to pay for art I wanted.

I think leaving it at "just money" kind of encourages senseless materialism. If there's something worth paying for that you get to at the end, it encourages saving and carefully thinking about what you put your money into.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Some of you may remember me talking about this little boy in the past -- it would be Tom's, let's see, nephew once-removed or some-such. As he's been adopted by Tom's sister (his great-grandmother), he's Tom's nephew. We see quite a bit of him.

He's a normal little boy. Very well behaved for the most part because his father is pretty strict with him. And, of course, they've had lots of experience raising kids.

His dad swears. "Stupid ****." "**** it!" "****in' whatever." He tries not to now (and may not, as far as I know), but he's done it enough so that the little boy's picked it up. And, not surprisingly, he uses it in correct context -- both at home and at pre-school.

Other than that, he's a good little boy. They've tried to cure him (for one reason, school's complained) by spankings, hot sauce, etc. And it hasn't quite worked. (Yeah, I know; don't even talk to me about it.)

I thought I might make a suggestion to them: Give him $5 a week allowance. He has to save half. Then, for every time he uses a swear word, he loses 50-cents. So five times in a week and he's broke. If he's successful? He gets to take his $$ to the dollar store or wherever and buy what he wants. If not? Better luck next week.

Does this sound like a good alternative to suggest to spanking and hot sauce or soap?

I do not think that there is any reasonable way to teach this boy not to follow the example that is set by his parents and by other alleged grown-ups who are in a position to influence him.

 

[rocket88]

My kids learned the F word from me. I was carrying my daughter back to bed and tripped and fell with her on top of me. Kind of hurt and so I'm in pain and I just said "FVVVCK." So it goes.

I like the money idea. Both the kid and the Dad paying. Suggest it, won't hurt.

 

[Fisher]

My kids learned the F word from me. I was carrying my daughter back to bed and tripped and fell with her on top of me. Kind of hurt and so I'm in pain and I just said "FVVVCK." So it goes.

I like the money idea. Both the kid and the Dad paying. Suggest it, won't hurt.

Probably one of the funniest things I ever saw was when my mom wouldn't let one of my nieces have something, and my niece, all of 3, put her hands on her hips and called my mom an effing B. The shock value was just so funny.

 

[justabubba]

the kid is probably too young for the allowance to be effective
about seven years would be a good time for that

gotta find the kid's hot button
what is it that he would hate to lose
then take that away for a period of time when he ****s up

 

[lizzie]

Probably one of the funniest things I ever saw was when my mom wouldn't let one of my nieces have something, and my niece, all of 3, put her hands on her hips and called my mom an effing B. The shock value was just so funny.

Ya see? If I were in that situation, as the effing B she was referring to, the mama kitty in me would come out. :lol:

 

[Fisher]

Ya see? If I were in that situation, as the effing B she was referring to, the mama kitty in me would come out. :lol:

Oh my mom did not take it very well at all, but the rest of us were laughing so hard we couldn't breath. Classic mixed message that one got that day.

 

[blackjack50]

Some of you may remember me talking about this little boy in the past -- it would be Tom's, let's see, nephew once-removed or some-such. As he's been adopted by Tom's sister (his great-grandmother), he's Tom's nephew. We see quite a bit of him.

He's a normal little boy. Very well behaved for the most part because his father is pretty strict with him. And, of course, they've had lots of experience raising kids.

His dad swears. "Stupid ****." "**** it!" "****in' whatever." He tries not to now (and may not, as far as I know), but he's done it enough so that the little boy's picked it up. And, not surprisingly, he uses it in correct context -- both at home and at pre-school.

Other than that, he's a good little boy. They've tried to cure him (for one reason, school's complained) by spankings, hot sauce, etc. And it hasn't quite worked. (Yeah, I know; don't even talk to me about it.)

I thought I might make a suggestion to them: Give him $5 a week allowance. He has to save half. Then, for every time he uses a swear word, he loses 50-cents. So five times in a week and he's broke. If he's successful? He gets to take his $$ to the dollar store or wherever and buy what he wants. If not? Better luck next week.

Does this sound like a good alternative to suggest to spanking and hot sauce or soap?

As a counselor and teacher (well sub) I was afraid if rewarding good behavior with material/treats. It sets Precedent and you have to be strict on the taking it away and giving it too them.

A talk is a really good idea. Get on the kids level...eye to eye...and use an I message. I want you to stop. A contract would be a good idea. Tell the kid...I won't curse and if you hear me use a curse word I will go to time out. If you use a curse word you will go to time out.

Hold true to that and it will help.

There are a hundred ways...but the trick is time and consistency. As long as you are consistent and the kid knows what the punishment is...you are set. Make sure tht EVERYONE knows that punishment too. My teacher knew to call my dad for Bad behavior and call my mother for the bad grades. They knew who nagged and who pulled a belt. My dad didnt get many calls...and mom only got calls from the math teacher.

 

[jamesrage]

Some of you may remember me talking about this little boy in the past -- it would be Tom's, let's see, nephew once-removed or some-such. As he's been adopted by Tom's sister (his great-grandmother), he's Tom's nephew. We see quite a bit of him.

He's a normal little boy. Very well behaved for the most part because his father is pretty strict with him. And, of course, they've had lots of experience raising kids.

His dad swears. "Stupid ****." "**** it!" "****in' whatever." He tries not to now (and may not, as far as I know), but he's done it enough so that the little boy's picked it up. And, not surprisingly, he uses it in correct context -- both at home and at pre-school.

Other than that, he's a good little boy. They've tried to cure him (for one reason, school's complained) by spankings, hot sauce, etc. And it hasn't quite worked. (Yeah, I know; don't even talk to me about it.)

I thought I might make a suggestion to them: Give him $5 a week allowance. He has to save half. Then, for every time he uses a swear word, he loses 50-cents. So five times in a week and he's broke. If he's successful? He gets to take his $$ to the dollar store or wherever and buy what he wants. If not? Better luck next week.

Does this sound like a good alternative to suggest to spanking and hot sauce or soap?

Could be assuming there is something the kid likes to spend money on. My nieces never had a problem, it was explained to them at a early age that cursing something only adults get to do like smoking, drinking,voting and driving and they they will get spanked if they curse.

 

[Leo]

LOL, I can relate to both the kid and the situation. I grew up in a household where no one used bad language, and before I went away to school, I never heard any swear words, except once. I forget what he did, but my dad made a mistake and said "Oh bugger! I should have ..." I was like five at the time, and thought that was a wonderful new word, so I proceeded to use it at every opportunity. :lol:

Nanny was horrified, and told me never to use that sort of language, but I liked the sound of it, and being the rebellious little bugger I was, continued to shock her. The attention it received was an added incentive.

Anyway, Nanny went to my mother, who took the matter up with my father, who, being the miscreant who had unwittingly introduced me to the term, had 'a quiet word' with me. He gave me to understand that people will not think I am clever if I use that word, they will just think I am silly, because it is basically a meaningless word. He also said it was no big deal, but if I didn't want people to think I was dumb, it would be better not to use meaningless words.

I have grown up with that idea, and almost never use bad language - not for any moral reason, but because I think it are not expressive enough. A bit like 'great', and 'nice', which have become meaningless except in the most vaguely general sense.

But I don't know if that tactic would be effective with every child, as I was always someone who wanted to be taken seriously. Others may not give the proverbial.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

My nieces never had a problem, it was explained to them at a early age that cursing something only adults get to do like smoking, drinking,voting and driving and they they will get spanked if they curse.

I just can't see that working very well.

How does a child learn to speak? We're not born already knowing how to use language. We learn it by example from those around us.

In learning how to speak, what words to use in what contexts, I just cannot see it as reasonable to expect anything other than that children will learn exactly from the example set by the older people around them. That is how children learn.

To punish children for learning the only thing beings offered for them to learn, in the only manner that they are equipped to learn, is both unreasonably cruel, and futile.

 

[jamesrage]

I just can't see that working very well.

How does a child learn to speak? We're not born already knowing how to use language. We learn it by example from those around us.

In learning how to speak, what words to use in what contexts, I just cannot see it as reasonable to expect anything other than that children will learn exactly from the example set by the older people around them. That is how children learn.

To punish children for learning the only thing beings offered for them to learn, in the only manner that they are equipped to learn, is both unreasonably cruel, and futile.

It is not cruel and futile.One of the ways children learn which behavior is acceptable and unacceptable is by disciplining them for undesirable behavior and rewarding them for acceptable behavior. My nieces do not curse,so it was not futile.

 

[Leo]

It is not cruel and futile.One of the ways children learn which behavior is acceptable and unacceptable is by disciplining them for undesirable behavior and rewarding them for acceptable behavior. My nieces do not curse,so it was not futile.

Rubbish! Bob is correct, and what is more he is aware of the injustice involved in punishing children for such a thing. I just demonstrated my experience of picking up a verboten word inadvertently dropped by my dad. Had he punished me for using it, instead of explaining why it was not a desirable word to use (in terms I could understand,) all he would have ensured was my reluctance to use it in his presence. Instead he convinced me that there was disadvantage in using it - a much better argument to a young child.

Not knowing your family, I can only surmise that your nieces do not curse because they have not been exposed to that sort of language in their formative years.

 

[jamesrage]

Rubbish! Bob is correct, and what is more he is aware of the injustice involved in punishing children for such a thing. I just demonstrated my experience of picking up a verboten word inadvertently dropped by my dad. Had he punished me for using it, instead of explaining why it was not a desirable word to use (in terms I could understand,) all he would have ensured was my reluctance to use it in his presence. Instead he convinced me that there was disadvantage in using it - a much better argument to a young child.

Not knowing your family, I can only surmise that your nieces do not curse because they have not been exposed to that sort of language in their formative years.

They are around adults who curse and they have been around adults who curse their whole lives. They even on occasion watch some movie or tv show with their mother that has cursing in it.Many children do understand and are capable of understanding the certain negative behavior results in a negative consequence and certain positive behavior results in a positive consequence.As parents,aunts,uncles,grandparents and other authority figures in a child's life it our responsibility to teach children what is and isn't acceptable behavior for a child.

 

[Leo]

They are around adults who curse and they have been around adults who curse their whole lives. They even on occasion watch some movie or tv show with their mother that has cursing in it.Many children do understand and are capable of understanding the certain negative behavior results in a negative consequence and certain positive behavior results in a positive consequence.As parents,aunts,uncles,grandparents and other authority figures in a child's life it our responsibility to teach children what is and isn't acceptable behavior for a child.

I basically agree with what you are saying. Of course it is desirable to teach children (and adults on occasion) what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in each society. Where we may possibly disagree concerns the methods employed. I do not believe punishment - particularly physical punishment - achieves anything valuable. We learn much more from considerate and thoughtful advice which we can understand (at our stage of development). My dad was clever enough to harness my desire to be taken seriously - other gently coercive methods might work better with other children. But you will only obey people you fear for as long as they are around to punish you - what happens when you grow up? Seeing the wisdom of something lasts for life.

 

[jamesrage]

I basically agree with what you are saying. Of course it is desirable to teach children (and adults on occasion) what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in each society. Where we may possibly disagree concerns the methods employed. I do not believe punishment - particularly physical punishment - achieves anything valuable. We learn much more from considerate and thoughtful advice which we can understand (at our stage of development).

Many children at a certain age can not be reasoned with, have a short attention span and a grounding, standing in the corner or taking a toy away is useless.

My dad was clever enough to harness my desire to be taken seriously - other gently coercive methods might work better with other children.

Were talking about a four and a half year old.They are not known for understanding gentler coercive methods.Children that young require a variety of punishments depending on the severity of the offense and what will work with them.Some kids just require a good old fashioned spanking.Some kids require doing some pushups or cherry pickers. Some kids require standing in the corner.Some kids require a timeout.Some kids you can just take away a favorite toy.But usually every time you punish them you explain why they are being punished and why they shouldn't do what is they did.

But you will only obey people you fear for as long as they are around to punish you - what happens when you grow up? .

Negative consequences for negative behavior is a normal part of society.If you tell your boss to go **** himself and eat a dick then he is going to fire you.If you speed down the highway 10-20 miles over the speed limit then you are going to get pulled over and handed a ticket.If you rob a bank you will go to prison. If you plan out and murder someone you will go to prison and possibly face the death penalty.

Seeing the wisdom of something lasts for life.

This thread if about four and a half year old.Children that young do not see the wisdom in anything.

 

[Superfly]

Oh my mom did not take it very well at all, but the rest of us were laughing so hard we couldn't breath. Classic mixed message that one got that day.

When my oldest daughter was 3 years old, she called my now ex father-in-law a son of a bitch. He was a deacon of the church so he would have been upset had he heard her. He was like, "What'd she say?" We all heard it, and were stifling giggles, and saying, "Oh, nothing." He was being a son of a bitch. That's why she didn't get punished.

 

[Fisher]

When my oldest daughter was 3 years old, she called my now ex father-in-law a son of a bitch. He was a deacon of the church so he would have been upset had he heard her. He was like, "What'd she say?" We all heard it, and were stifling giggles, and saying, "Oh, nothing." He was being a son of a bitch. That's why she didn't get punished.

With my mom, I think she interpreted as that was how my niece's mother probably talked about her so it was more that in-law tension I think than what my niece said necessarily. Probably the worst thing my kids have let fly was my oldest let out a very loud "GD it" when he busted his knee against something but he got that 100% from me when I bust my knee against something so I couldn't really say anything.

 

[clownboy]

My father and grandfathers all had bouts of salty language, but I was always taught you must be this high to ride that ride. It was language for adults, not for us kids. If we got caught using it, we got the switch.

You didn't mention if spanking is on the table.

 

[Superfly]

I'm a lot more lax with my kids now than I was with my oldest daughter. My oldest daughter got her mouth washed out with soap. My daughters who are still at home haven't slipped in front of me, but they are teenagers so I'm pretty sure they cuss in front of their friends. Whilst monitoring emails, texts, etc, I have seen swear words. It doesn't bother me anyway. I've never been able to figure out why certain words are not "allowed" anyway. Just because somebody a long time ago said that **** was a bad word, now I am not supposed to say it? That bites. I don't care what a bunch of stuffy people decided a long time ago.

 

[Leo]

Many children at a certain age can not be reasoned with, have a short attention span and a grounding, standing in the corner or taking a toy away is useless.

If you are implying that the only effective form of discipline is physical violence, I disagree, and so might a number of child psychologists.

Were talking about a four and a half year old.They are not known for understanding gentler coercive methods.Children that young require a variety of punishments depending on the severity of the offense and what will work with them.Some kids just require a good old fashioned spanking.Some kids require doing some pushups or cherry pickers. Some kids require standing in the corner.Some kids require a timeout.Some kids you can just take away a favorite toy.But usually every time you punish them you explain why they are being punished and why they shouldn't do what is they did.

This thread if about four and a half year old.Children that young do not see the wisdom in anything.

I think we must agree to disagree upon the use of corporal punishment, however you do have a point inasmuch as different things work differently with different children. I have a low boredom threshold, so time out in my room worked wonders with me. And remember, I was speaking of a time when I was like five - not so very much more mature than a four-and-a-half year old.