Accusations Of Russian Atrocities In Ukraine Prompt Calls For Tougher Sanctions, Prosecutions

[oneworld2]

One objective fact in regard to this atrocity is that Moscow is denying that it ever happened. Claiming "dead" figures seen in the footage are merely Ukrainian actors playing their part in a "fake".

On the long since proven principle that nothing has happened until the Kremlin denies it, that reaction above is proof enough.

And our chief resident apologist for the Kremlin immediately rushing in with the usual apologia and whataboutism helps in that assessment.

Those you oppose whataboutisms are the ones who wish to present bias and see the selective viewing of events. I'm happy that you are against it because of what it says about your own commentary

 

[Chagos]

Whataboutism is a logical debating fallacy designed by default to show the debating weakness of he or she (they) who applies (apply) it.

Self-disqualification at its best, the only ones unable to realize that being those too dishonest or too stupid to avoid it.

Possibly both.

 

[NewfieMom]

You comment on Russia and Russians all the time, you just show no balance. None of that has anything to do with me.

I don't think I commented on Russia until it threatened Ukraine. If I did it might have been in a thread about Dostoevsky because I read Crime and Punishment for the first time a few years ago or because I was studying Czech and comparing it to the Russian language. Or maybe it was a comment on the Russian Orthodox Church. But I bet you are wrong and you don't know what I posted about!

 

[Chagos]

The BBC's Jeremy Bowen reports what he saw personally in another location.

I didn't click any of the videos since in times long past I've seen enough of that stuff in RL and really don't need any more of it.

Meanwhile let the liars on here continue their futile attempts of denial, it serves well to show what fabric they're made of.

 

[oneworld2]

I don't think I commented on Russia until it threatened Ukraine. If I did it might have been in a thread about Dostoevsky because I read Crime and Punishment for the first time a few years ago or because I was studying Czech and comparing it to the Russian language. Or maybe it was a comment on the Russian Orthodox Church. But I bet you are wrong and you don't know what I posted about!

No, a simple search here shows the opposite to be true

a sample that are nothing to do with your alleged interests outlined above

Ukrainians served as guards in Nazi concentration camps. Like most Eastern Europeans, Ukrainians were very anti-semitic during the World War II era. In that sense I can understand using a pejorative term like "Nazi" towards them. But in almost every other respect the term "Nazi" does not fit.

Russia is currently trying to expand its territory and influence in an attempt to regain the status and wealth it has as the Soviet Union. It is far more like Nazi Germany under Hitler in its foreign policy, attempting to dominate the world and gain back what it lost in World War I and then some, than is Ukraine.

Let me guess: you are a Russian who believes in Russian expansionism. You yearn for the days of the Soviet Union which you either remember fondly or idealize from what others have said about it. It makes you feel like a Big Man to be part of a Big Russia next to the Midget Baltic States. To which I say it is a pity that your ego, like Putin's, so badly needs boosting that you have to trample on your neighbors.

Crimea obviously doesn't count to you. You do not mention it. Russia expanded right over and through it with its military. NATO didn't do that in Eastern Europe.
Calling sovereign countries like the three Baltic states you mentioned, "midget" is an insult in English, by the way. It shows your bias.

Russia invaded a sovereign country, Ukraine, using that as a pretext. It reminds me of Germany forcing the sovereign country of Czechoslovakia to give up the Sudetenland because (supposedly) the German-speakers living in that part of Czechoslovakia would be happier attached to Germany. Dictators like Putin and Hitler are very good at finding excuses for their invasions.

I thought it was the zombies that did that, but never mind.

In any case, it is Trump and his fascists who have put the US Constitution in jeopardy. I have zero fear of communists since Russia is no longer communist. Putin is a Trump-supporter; that is why I fear Russian aggression now.

BTW there are no references to Abu Ghraib in a history search of your usename except for the one you just made

 

[oneworld2]

Whataboutism is a logical debating fallacy designed by default to show the debating weakness of he or she (they) who applies (apply) it.

Self-disqualification at its best, the only ones unable to realize that being those too dishonest or too stupid to avoid it.

Possibly both.

Nope, what I stated is the accurate assessment and the rest of your post is standard Chagos projection

 

[NewfieMom]

No, a simple search here shows the opposite to be true

I said "I don't think I commented on Russia until it threatened Ukraine." All of my postings above were about Russia attacking Ukraine: from the annexation of Crimea in 2014 through this war.

 

[Chagos]

"accurate assessment" from somebody who just now stated that we have no way of knowing.

Hilarious.

 

[oneworld2]

Meanwhile let the liars on here continue their futile attempts of denial, it serves well to show what fabric they're made of.

Which " liars" are " denying " what here ?

 

[oneworld2]

"accurate assessment" from somebody who just now stated that we have no way of knowing.

Hilarious.

Accurate assessment on those who hate whataboutism.

The only thing that's "hilarious" is your lack of the ability to understand what was being discussed

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

War diary of a child in Mariupol, Ukraine.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I can't think of a single thing Trump has done that didn't please Putin and weaken NATO.

 

[Chagos]

The liars on here are so obvious that anyone caring to, can identify them with ease.

 

[oneworld2]

I said "I don't think I commented on Russia until it threatened Ukraine." All of my postings above were about Russiamattacking Ukraine: from the annexation of Crimea in 2014 through this war.

Okay, I am happy to accept the qualification., I thought you said since the Russian attack. Apologies for the mistake

Did you ever comment on the Ukrainian threat to Russia during the same period? You know, it's bid to join the massive/aggressive hostile military alliance called NATO ?

 

[Antiwar]

The Russians are not honorable soldiers. They are serial killers.

How does one distinguish honorable killers from dishonorable killers?

 

[oneworld2]

The liars on here are so obvious that anyone caring to, can identify them with ease.

I didn't think you would cite anything here nor the fact that you would acknowledge your mistake about my reference to whataboutism that you mistakenly thought was regarding alleged war crimes.

All you problems btw

 

[Antiwar]

My problem is sadly not that it happens in war, but that people think that it is only one side that does this shit. It aint.

Case in point. There was a town that was liberated by Ukrainian forces. The town was taken unopposed on the first day. So, all that damage was done by who?

Are there Russian soldiers that rape and murder civilians? Yep, no doubt. Are there Ukrainian troops that do the same? Of course, they can just blame it on the Russians. War is dirty and ugly.. deal with it.

How about we (humanity) stop dealing out warring and war weapons?

 

[NewfieMom]

BTW there are no references to Abu Ghraib in a history search of your usename except for the one you just made

That is because I had not yet joined Debate Politics when Abu Ghraib occurred. I do not speak out only here. You will not find a reference here or anywhere on-line to a lot of things I spoke out about and marched about. That is because, blessedly, I did them in the 1960's and 1970's and if they made the "papers" of those days (which some did) (papers published by radical groups) no one has those newspapers anymore, not even me.

 

[Antiwar]

One objective fact in regard to this atrocity is that Moscow is denying that it ever happened. Claiming "dead" figures seen in the footage are merely Ukrainian actors playing their part in a "fake".

On the long since proven principle that nothing has happened until the Kremlin denies it, that reaction above is proof enough.

And our chief resident apologist for the Kremlin immediately rushing in with the usual apologia and whataboutism helps in that assessment.

Are you saying that the two parts I highlighted are related?

 

[Antiwar]

The liars on here are so obvious that anyone caring to, can identify them with ease.

Can you properly identify the supposed lies by directly quoting them and explaining how they're lies?

 

[Chagos]

somebody felt summoned?

 

[oneworld2]

somebody felt summoned?

No , people want you to either back your claims here or have the decency to retract them ?

 

[oneworld2]

That is because I had not yet joined Debate Politics when Abu Ghraib occurred. I do not speak out only here. You will not find a reference here or anywhere on-line to a lot of things I spoke out about and marched about. That is because, blessedly, I did them in the 1960's and 1970's and if they made the "papers" of those days (which some did) (papers published by radical groups) no one has those newspapers anymore, not even me.

So there is no evidence here for what you claim. Good thing is there is some for me lol

 

[Chagos]

In the trial of Nazi criminal Klaus Barbie, the controversial lawyer Jacques Vergès tried to present what was defined as a Tu Quoque Defence—i.e., that during the Algerian War, French officers such as General Jacques Massu had committed war crimes similar to those with which Barbie was being charged, and therefore the French state had no moral right to try Barbie. This defense was rejected by the court, which convicted Barbie.

Now if the court had rejected Vergès line of defense with the argument "well, just look what a scumbag YOU are",it would have been as guilty of "tu quoque" as in its assessment of Vergès argument. But, being less silly than some of our whataboutism operators on here, it didn't.

That's why, despite possible exceptions to even that rule, courts are generally not composed of idiots. Or so one would hope.

The idea that whataboutism constitutes objectivity directed against the bias of others becomes particularly stupid when own bias is demonstrated in its appliance. Even more so in conjunction with the demonstration of own hypocrisy.

 

[Chagos]

somebody felt summoned?