• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Abortion Clinics Closing at Record Rate

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
67,645
Reaction score
38,787
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
This year, 42 clinics that provided surgical abortions have shut their doors, and two that offered chemical abortions by drugs also have closed, according to Operation Rescue, which monitors closings and health and safety violations by clinics nationwide. That number far surpasses the 25 surgical clinics shutdown last year and the 30 in 2011, by Operation Rescue's count. While others estimate a smaller number of closings, the pattern is clear.

Some of the shutdowns have been of major clinics. For instance, Virginia's No. 1 abortion provider closed, The Washington Post reported in July. NOVA Women's Healthcare in Fairfax, Va., shut down after state and local governments enacted regulations the abortion provider appeared unable to meet. The northern Virginia clinic performed 3,066 abortions in 2012 and 3,567 in 2011.

The reasons given for the upswing in closings are varied even among pro-lifers. They include:
-- the increasing state regulation and oversight of clinics;
-- a growth in pro-life opinion and activity, and
-- a decline in the abortion rate. Abortion Clinics Closing at Record Rate | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com

The trend is toward life-affirming legislation and making abortions and the clinics in which they are performed safer for women. This is very heartening news for those of us who are pro-life.

Link to article on which this article reports: Baptist Press -Abortion clinic closings on rise in U.S., 44 tallied year to date - News with a Christian Perspective
 

SmokeAndMirrors

DP Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
18,282
Reaction score
16,154
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
This year, 42 clinics that provided surgical abortions have shut their doors, and two that offered chemical abortions by drugs also have closed, according to Operation Rescue, which monitors closings and health and safety violations by clinics nationwide. That number far surpasses the 25 surgical clinics shutdown last year and the 30 in 2011, by Operation Rescue's count. While others estimate a smaller number of closings, the pattern is clear.

Some of the shutdowns have been of major clinics. For instance, Virginia's No. 1 abortion provider closed, The Washington Post reported in July. NOVA Women's Healthcare in Fairfax, Va., shut down after state and local governments enacted regulations the abortion provider appeared unable to meet. The northern Virginia clinic performed 3,066 abortions in 2012 and 3,567 in 2011.

The reasons given for the upswing in closings are varied even among pro-lifers. They include:
-- the increasing state regulation and oversight of clinics;
-- a growth in pro-life opinion and activity, and
-- a decline in the abortion rate. Abortion Clinics Closing at Record Rate | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com

The trend is toward life-affirming legislation and making abortions and the clinics in which they are performed safer for women. This is very heartening news for those of us who are pro-life.

Link to article on which this article reports: Baptist Press -Abortion clinic closings on rise in U.S., 44 tallied year to date - News with a Christian Perspective

Yes, very life-affirming indeed. Unless you care about women, of course...

Texas Threat to Abortion Clinics Dodged at Flea Markets - Bloomberg

As history has repeatedly displayed, you cannot stop someone from controlling their body and their dignity. You can only push them underground.

Women have resources now that they didn't in the 70's. Medical abortion is completely untraceable. There's no blood test. It resembles a miscarriage pretty much exactly. It is readily available both online and on the street, and increasingly, it is available through known and trusted charities who no doubt -- as sad as this is, in a so-called developed country -- may begin expanding their supply to America out of necessity.

Abortion clinics are closing due to continued disruption, violence, and draconian, anti-woman laws that basically stop them from operating.

The abortion rate may very well being going down. But at least some of that drop is the increasing number of women who are going off the grid, and are thus no longer being counted. The CDC keeps no record of underground abortions, but the suddenly exploding business of black market abortion drugs supplying to the US rather speaks for itself, don't you think?

What is this nonsense spin about these supposed "regulations" making abortion "safer for women"? Abortion was already one of the safest procedures one could have. Abortions were (and are) being practiced by trained doctors in clinical settings with adequate equipment, knowledge, sterility, and facilities. These new mandates are nothing but an attempt to make it impossible for abortion clinics to function, and move a step closer to making women's bodies the property of the state.

You can be against abortion all day long, but do not insult in my intelligence by pretending that all these new mandates are for the good of women. Really. Do you really believe what you're saying?

I and anyone else with a brain would greatly appreciate it if you stop trying to pretend that isn't the case, and just own your cause with some dignity.

If what you're defending is so hard to defend that you have to make up fantasies and take your opponent for an idiot to even attempt it, perhaps you shouldn't be doing so.
 
Last edited:

JayDubya

Struggler
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
17,471
Reaction score
4,063
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Great news. Thanks for sharing it, nota.
 

TheNextEra

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
16,575
Reaction score
6,767
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
The trend is toward life-affirming legislation and making abortions and the clinics in which they are performed safer for women. This is very heartening news for those of us who are pro-life.

I disagree with part of that statement. I do belive abortions have been going down, however, I don't think legislation is aimed at making the clinics "safer". Most legislation I have seen is aimed at making it more difficult for the woman to have an abortion, aka making it mandatory for a woman to have "pro-life" counseling and sonagrams. I'm all for informing the woman about what an abortion is, however, forcing counseling and probes is not medically needed.

Also, given that plan B and other chemical procedures are available, there is no longer the need to necessarily go to a clinic and luckily virtually untraceable.

I think the article is a little misleading as to the reasons why clinics are closing.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,431
Reaction score
16,989
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
This year, 42 clinics that provided surgical abortions have shut their doors, and two that offered chemical abortions by drugs also have closed, according to Operation Rescue, which monitors closings and health and safety violations by clinics nationwide. That number far surpasses the 25 surgical clinics shutdown last year and the 30 in 2011, by Operation Rescue's count. While others estimate a smaller number of closings, the pattern is clear.

Some of the shutdowns have been of major clinics. For instance, Virginia's No. 1 abortion provider closed, The Washington Post reported in July. NOVA Women's Healthcare in Fairfax, Va., shut down after state and local governments enacted regulations the abortion provider appeared unable to meet. The northern Virginia clinic performed 3,066 abortions in 2012 and 3,567 in 2011.

The reasons given for the upswing in closings are varied even among pro-lifers. They include:
-- the increasing state regulation and oversight of clinics;
-- a growth in pro-life opinion and activity, and
-- a decline in the abortion rate. Abortion Clinics Closing at Record Rate | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com

The trend is toward life-affirming legislation and making abortions and the clinics in which they are performed safer for women. This is very heartening news for those of us who are pro-life.

Link to article on which this article reports: Baptist Press -Abortion clinic closings on rise in U.S., 44 tallied year to date - News with a Christian Perspective

To the bolded - pro-life individuals aren't concerned with making these clinics "safer" for women - don't be disingenuous. That's not a pro-life concern at all. That's a pro-choice concern.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,003
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
If the number of closing minus the number opening still shows a net decrease, it seems to be a good thing.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,431
Reaction score
16,989
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
If the number of closing minus the number opening still shows a net decrease, it seems to be a good thing.

I don't follow this logic - it means nothing other than having less places open. It doesn't mean that the number of abortions is going to drop as a result, which seems to be the conclusion. The number of abortions at the open clinics will rise. :shrug:
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,003
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I don't follow this logic - it means nothing other than having less places open.
Less places open = less opportunity, and less opportunity for an abortion may allow individuals more time to contemplate their actions which may lead to less abortions overall.

It doesn't mean that the number of abortions is going to drop as a result, which seems to be the conclusion. The number of abortions at the open clinics will rise. :shrug:
It's not cause & effect but using a common argument tactic of the anti-gun crowd, less guns = less deaths. I'm just seeing if such a tactic would work in this situation and if not, why not?
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
44,814
Reaction score
20,220
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Notice how nobody's blaming this on Obamacare.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
160,900
Reaction score
57,813
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Looks like the anti-abortion crowd found a way to circumvent the law. I guess they are like pot heads in that respect.
 

year2late

IIJAFM
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
24,193
Reaction score
21,635
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Yes, very life-affirming indeed. Unless you care about women, of course...

Texas Threat to Abortion Clinics Dodged at Flea Markets - Bloomberg

As history has repeatedly displayed, you cannot stop someone from controlling their body and their dignity. You can only push them underground.

Women have resources now that they didn't in the 70's. Medical abortion is completely untraceable. There's no blood test. It resembles a miscarriage pretty much exactly. It is readily available both online and on the street, and increasingly, it is available through known and trusted charities who no doubt -- as sad as this is, in a so-called developed country -- may begin expanding their supply to America out of necessity.

Abortion clinics are closing due to continued disruption, violence, and draconian, anti-woman laws that basically stop them from operating.

The abortion rate may very well being going down. But at least some of that drop is the increasing number of women who are going off the grid, and are thus no longer being counted. The CDC keeps no record of underground abortions, but the suddenly exploding business of black market abortion drugs supplying to the US rather speaks for itself, don't you think?

What is this nonsense spin about these supposed "regulations" making abortion "safer for women"? Abortion was already one of the safest procedures one could have. Abortions were (and are) being practiced by trained doctors in clinical settings with adequate equipment, knowledge, sterility, and facilities. These new mandates are nothing but an attempt to make it impossible for abortion clinics to function, and move a step closer to making women's bodies the property of the state.

You can be against abortion all day long, but do not insult in my intelligence by pretending that all these new mandates are for the good of women. Really. Do you really believe what you're saying?

I and anyone else with a brain would greatly appreciate it if you stop trying to pretend that isn't the case, and just own your cause with some dignity.

If what you're defending is so hard to defend that you have to make up fantasies and take your opponent for an idiot to even attempt it, perhaps you shouldn't be doing so.

It was very hard to take their numbers seriously for the same reasons you state.
 

Removable Mind

Irremovable Intelligence
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
25,803
Reaction score
20,579
Location
Austin, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
This is another public statement that pro-life advocates will use any odious means possible to undermine the Constitutional integrity of privacy between a woman and a medical provider.

In these actions to diminish access to abortion facilities, especially where Planned Parenthood, and the like type organizations are concerned...the historical result will be seen as claw marks left by a struggling population of people who cling to superstitions, myths, sexism, and authoritarian mentality who attempted to dissect any meaningful constitutional tenets which binds the equality of women to foundation of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
 

Paschendale

Uncanny
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
12,510
Reaction score
12,605
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Most of these new laws and regulations have had nothing to do with safety. They were demanding that abortion clinics have things in them to provide services that they don't provide. These rules require them to meet the qualifications of emergency rooms... which abortion clinics are not. There was nothing unsafe about these clinics, but they were being required to conform to the rules for something other than abortion clinics. It would be like forcing the recall of a car because it didn't meet the crash test specifications of a space shuttle.

The point of these new regulations was never anyone's safety. It was simply to make operating an abortion clinic impossible, and so to shut them down. Which our government (state or federal) has no business doing.
 

Scrabaholic

certified batshit crazy
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
26,938
Reaction score
18,983
Location
Near Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
I don't follow this logic - it means nothing other than having less places open. It doesn't mean that the number of abortions is going to drop as a result, which seems to be the conclusion. The number of abortions at the open clinics will rise. :shrug:

Exactly. Plus, as has already been said, women will turn to other ways of aborting. The only thing that might tell if the closing clinics were affecting the abortion rate is if the birth rate goes up significantly.
 

GEIxBattleRifle

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
3,306
Reaction score
1,024
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Exactly. Plus, as has already been said, women will turn to other ways of aborting. The only thing that might tell if the closing clinics were affecting the abortion rate is if the birth rate goes up significantly.

I read on clinics closing last year and the abortion rate was still over 1 million in the USA but unlike most pro choicers, I really don't care if abortion stays legal or illegal so this thread doesn't concern me.
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I don't follow this logic - it means nothing other than having less places open. It doesn't mean that the number of abortions is going to drop as a result, which seems to be the conclusion. The number of abortions at the open clinics will rise. :shrug:

It's weird how people that support abortion clinics claim on one hand that less abortion clinics will make it impossible for women to practice their choice and on the other have no effect at all on the abortion rate.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,431
Reaction score
16,989
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Less places open = less opportunity, and less opportunity for an abortion may allow individuals more time to contemplate their actions which may lead to less abortions overall.

It's not cause & effect but using a common argument tactic of the anti-gun crowd, less guns = less deaths. I'm just seeing if such a tactic would work in this situation and if not, why not?

The equivalent would really be less gun stores = less gun deaths. Less gun stores due to more strict standards.

Trust me - having to drive an extra hour for an abortion won't stop anyone just the same as having to pay an extra $100.00. People have gone to extreme measures to obtain one because not having it means you're having a baby - which is quite significant.

My only point is that it's a sign that they can't handle tougher regulations - and some of these regulations aren't just aimed AT abortion clinics, but would also affect prenatal clinics and other various private practices that provide a large variety of OBGYN services including hospitals and birthing centers.
 
Last edited:

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
67,645
Reaction score
38,787
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yes, very life-affirming indeed. Unless you care about women, of course...

...I and anyone else with a brain would greatly appreciate it if you stop trying to pretend that isn't the case, and just own your cause with some dignity.

If what you're defending is so hard to defend that you have to make up fantasies and take your opponent for an idiot to even attempt it, perhaps you shouldn't be doing so.

What smug, insufferable gall. As if only those who are pro-choice care about women. What an insulting assumption. I am a woman, a woman who has sisters, a woman who has a daughter. Don’t presume to sit in judgment of me, little sister; I was alive and sexually active when Roe vs Wade became the benchmark case. I know exactly what freedom the Pill brought to women because I lived it. One reason I find elective abortion so repulsive is because I do value women, including myself.

At the end of your post you insult me personally by insinuating that I have to “make up fantasies.” What I did was begin a thread based on a headline on Drudge linked to an article that those who are pro-life are surely going to regard as real progress. I'd like to discuss that. There are many who are pro-choice who want abortion to be "safe, legal, and rare."

I don't treat those who disagree with me as idiots. I do tend to ignore hysterical hyperbole, though. I also don't insult others. Pity that the same can't be said for you, as you've just demonstrated. When you have to stoop to snarky remarks such as “anyone else with a brain,” it’s clear that there is no hope of a reasonable discussion. I haven’t made up any fantasies; you just don’t like the opinion I expressed. Too bad for you that you’re unable to tolerate oppositional points of view and have to resort to personal insult.

Maybe we can talk again when you’re a little more grown up. I’m not even going to respond further to you except to say that what you’ve said to and about me is untrue and really childish.
 
Last edited:

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
72,982
Reaction score
37,983
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
This year, 42 clinics that provided surgical abortions have shut their doors, and two that offered chemical abortions by drugs also have closed, according to Operation Rescue, which monitors closings and health and safety violations by clinics nationwide. That number far surpasses the 25 surgical clinics shutdown last year and the 30 in 2011, by Operation Rescue's count. While others estimate a smaller number of closings, the pattern is clear.

Some of the shutdowns have been of major clinics. For instance, Virginia's No. 1 abortion provider closed, The Washington Post reported in July. NOVA Women's Healthcare in Fairfax, Va., shut down after state and local governments enacted regulations the abortion provider appeared unable to meet. The northern Virginia clinic performed 3,066 abortions in 2012 and 3,567 in 2011.

The reasons given for the upswing in closings are varied even among pro-lifers. They include:
-- the increasing state regulation and oversight of clinics;
-- a growth in pro-life opinion and activity, and
-- a decline in the abortion rate. Abortion Clinics Closing at Record Rate | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com

The trend is toward life-affirming legislation and making abortions and the clinics in which they are performed safer for women. This is very heartening news for those of us who are pro-life.

Link to article on which this article reports: Baptist Press -Abortion clinic closings on rise in U.S., 44 tallied year to date - News with a Christian Perspective


Well, this is fantastic. Firstly, it means fewer needless deaths of children. And secondly, it will allow us to test the honesty of those who claim to be in favor of Abortion which is safe but rare.
 

joko104

Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
65,981
Reaction score
23,408
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The practical effect of prolife is to try to force poor and trapped women such as young teens to have unwanted children. This way, they themselves can still get an abortion for their own loved ones the old fashioned "going on an extended holiday" way, while raging at murderous young teens and impoverished women hoping they die of illegal abortions or aborfides. Pure hypocrisy at it's worse.

Since they can't outright close down medical facilities that do abortions, they'll just make it so only middle class and upper class women and families can have them.
 
Top Bottom