A Sound Victory in the Gay Rights Movement

[George_Washington]

You certainly have a right to shelter your kids from things in the real world. I wouldn't allow my children to watch the 700 Club, but you do NOT have a right to try to determine what is 'right' or 'wrong' for anyone ELSE's children, or make any attempt to; especially just going on a HUNCH based on your own intolerance. I've seen all aged chidlren at gay parades having a great time, so I think that the conclusions youv'e drawn are just based on your own prejudice.

lol There is nothing the 700 Club that could harm kids. You just don't like Pat Robertson and you dislike Christianity is all.

 

[George_Washington]

....because they know that people like you, Dobson, and Falwell would have aneurisms in the charge to boycott Disney, hurting their profits.

Not because they're worried about the kids.

It could be some of that. But it could also be because of how Walt Disney founded the company with wholesome family values. Disney was very strict about even showing nudity in his films because he wanted them to be things that the whole family could watch.

 

[faminedynasty]

lol There is nothing the 700 Club that could harm kids. You just don't like Pat Robertson and you dislike Christianity is all.

Is that sarcasm, or do you actually claim that those who advocate murder are good role models for children? And that those who do so could possibly claim to be Christian?

 

[George_Washington]

Is that sarcasm, or do you actually claim that those who advocate murder are good role models for children? And that those who do so could possibly claim to be Christian?

Robertson meant that it would be better for one person to die than for thousands of US troops to have to die, which is logical. Other people have said the same thing about other dictators throughout the world. George Stephanopolis said the same thing about Saddam back in the 90's. But liberals just want to pick apart Robertson on everything just because a lot of them don't like Christians.

 

[faminedynasty]

Robertson meant that it would be better for one person to die than for thousands of US troops to have to die, which is logical. liberals just want to pick apart Robertson on everything just because a lot of them don't like Christians.

Setting aside the question as to whether Robertson's call for murder is logical, let me ask you, can it honestly be called Christian? To paraphrase a cliche, who would Jesus kill? I find that again and again I have to remind people that Jesus was a man who chose to die rather than resort to violence. The ideals of Christ were pacifism to the point of death. So I hardly see how murder for political purposes is compatible with the ideology of Christianity, and I hardly see how anyone could call a man like Pat Robertson a Christian.

 

[George_Washington]

Setting aside the question as to whether Robertson's call for murder is logical, let me ask you, can it honestly be called Christian? To paraphrase a cliche, who would Jesus kill? I find that again and again I have to remind people that Jesus was a man who chose to die rather than resort to violence. The ideals of Christ were pacifism to the point of death. So I hardly see how murder for political purposes is compatible with the ideology of Christianity, and I hardly see how anyone could call a man like Pat Robertson a Christian.

Well, to be honest, I don't agree with everything Pat has said over the years. He's not in my particular Christian sect. But I just think, unfortunately, sometimes killing is neccessary to save other people from getting killed. I am not saying we should go to war with the leader of Venzeula-I just think sometimes evil dictators need to be removed in order to save lives-like Hitler for example.

 

[sissy-boy]

lol There is nothing the 700 Club that could harm kids. You just don't like Pat Robertson and you dislike Christianity is all.

I recieved a WRITTEN apology from Robertson after I saw him call for murder of Chavez. I told them that I would not allow my children to watch their hateful programming. They refer to homosexuals as 'satanic' and call for murder of politicians that do good things for their people.

Now if THAT is not a bad influence on children, I don't know what is.

If you want to raise children that are homophobic by teaching them that homosexuals are 'satanic' then you would have them watch hateful programming that teaches such ridiculous positions. If you wanted your children to be loving and accepting of the diversity in our nation you would use the parental tools to not let them see the type of disgusting, immoral and hateful material that is on the 700 club.

 

[sissy-boy]

Robertson meant that it would be better for one person to die than for thousands of US troops to have to die, which is logical. Other people have said the same thing about other dictators throughout the world. George Stephanopolis said the same thing about Saddam back in the 90's. But liberals just want to pick apart Robertson on everything just because a lot of them don't like Christians.

He didn't say that at ALL. He said that he should be ASSASSINATED, in pure English. Chavez has done great things for his people, and has every right to boycott the US for our manipulation of countries that don't 'play along'. Robertson is a hateful person to say it in a way that is rational. He wouldn't stop shy of murder to get what he wants. He's an advocate of murder when his own selfish interests are at stake.

 

[sissy-boy]

Well, to be honest, I don't agree with everything Pat has said over the years. He's not in my particular Christian sect. But I just think, unfortunately, sometimes killing is neccessary to save other people from getting killed. I am not saying we should go to war with the leader of Venzeula-I just think sometimes evil dictators need to be removed in order to save lives-like Hitler for example.

It's called 'MURDER' and even your 'good book' advocates against it, even though in other places it contradicts that 'commandment'.

 

[RightinNYC]

He didn't say that at ALL. He said that he should be ASSASSINATED, in pure English. Chavez has done great things for his people, and has every right to boycott the US for our manipulation of countries that don't 'play along'. Robertson is a hateful person to say it in a way that is rational. He wouldn't stop shy of murder to get what he wants. He's an advocate of murder when his own selfish interests are at stake.

Just a side note, but Chavez called for a ban on Halloween because he saw it as a tool of terror used by the US.

Idiot.

Anyways, lets get back to the issue at hand.

The case, gay rights, the gay rights movement, etc

 

[sissy-boy]

Setting aside the question as to whether Robertson's call for murder is logical, let me ask you, can it honestly be called Christian? To paraphrase a cliche, who would Jesus kill? I find that again and again I have to remind people that Jesus was a man who chose to die rather than resort to violence. The ideals of Christ were pacifism to the point of death. So I hardly see how murder for political purposes is compatible with the ideology of Christianity, and I hardly see how anyone could call a man like Pat Robertson a Christian.

I used to have a bumper sticker that read: "Who would Jesus Bomb?" -- it got a lot of great feedback.

 

[jallman]

Coming from someone who thinks that dressing in SM leather gear is 'vile', I'll have to dimiss what you say as pure bigotry. What you want is a community of gay people who behave like YOU -- there's no better definition for BIGOT that what you describe yourself as.

Whoa...wait a minute there...Where did I ever say that dressing in leather was vile? Show me, I challenge you. What people do in their private lives is their business and there is no call to judge them for that. I stated, and I will not back down in face of your unfounded insults, that to parade the bedroom activities around in public and promote this as a community event is vulgar. Its not the preference that is vile, its the act of displaying it in the streets. So, why dont you slow down the trigger finger, break out of your programming, and stop with the bigotry comments. Its just making you look more and more silly every time you wag your tongue.

 

[sissy-boy]

Whoa...wait a minute there...Where did I ever say that dressing in leather was vile? Show me, I challenge you. What people do in their private lives is their business and there is no call to judge them for that. I stated, and I will not back down in face of your unfounded insults, that to parade the bedroom activities around in public and promote this as a community event is vulgar. Its not the preference that is vile, its the act of displaying it in the streets. So, why dont you slow down the trigger finger, break out of your programming, and stop with the bigotry comments. Its just making you look more and more silly every time you wag your tongue.

You mentioned a 'bunch of leather guys on a float' in one of your first posts about the parades. If you were truly NOT intolerant, you wouldn't care if a porn star was on a float looking sexy. And you're the one programmed by the exact dogma that you pretend to be against. You seem very intolerant of others' sexual practices. They have every right to march in a parade as you. If they are advocating mutilation through piercings, tattoos, branding, scarification and showing off what is beautiful to THEM, why would that be considered 'inappropriate'?? As long as they aren't forcing people to view their prince albert, and even then, as long as they didnt' FORCE It, I could care less. More power to them for subscribing to a subculture that satisfies them. Personally I LOVE to see wild tattoos and piercings. I have quite a few myself.

 

[Kelzie]

Whoa...wait a minute there...Where did I ever say that dressing in leather was vile? Show me, I challenge you. What people do in their private lives is their business and there is no call to judge them for that. I stated, and I will not back down in face of your unfounded insults, that to parade the bedroom activities around in public and promote this as a community event is vulgar. Its not the preference that is vile, its the act of displaying it in the streets. So, why dont you slow down the trigger finger, break out of your programming, and stop with the bigotry comments. Its just making you look more and more silly every time you wag your tongue.

Well I think it's vile. But, than again...I am a vegan. :mrgreen:

 

[Deegan]

First, I think you're referring to a pretty small minority of people who do the sort of thing you talk about. Sure there's people who spend time in sex clubs, back-rooms, have casual sex and do drugs. It's not my job (or anyone else's) to prevent them from doing what they wish and CERTAINLY no ones place to judge them. If that's what they want to do, FINE. Do it. As long as they don't harm anyone else why would it bother you? But when we have these pesky 'politically correct' people running around like the 'morality police', acting as though this is 'harming' the movement or the community or any other ridiculous tripe, then the freedoms that we were expressing are being disrupted. Because then, the entire spirit of the parade has turned into exactly what we were fighting AGAINST.
To even suggest that porn stars be 'banned' is the exact same thing that we've come all this way to uphold. Porn stars are gay too and they have JUST as much right to have a float and march as anyone else. So are the men and women who represent the transgender and bdsm scenes. People who object to that are not our real allies in any case. I promote these groups more than any of the other groups. This is exactly what the public needs to be desensitized to. I say we have much more extreme aspects of the gay community have their own floats just so that the 'morality police' get the message that we have a right to exist as we want. Sex workers have floats too, as they should. They are an important part of the queer community as well. What I love about them is that there is such a wide variety from all walks of life, and I welcome them ALL with open arms and a wide smile.

When our own people start talking about 'banning', then we've lost the entire battle and have turned in to what we tried to dismantle. Maybe you should take a look at that and think about it a bit.

I think that Jallman made some really great points that you may want to consider. You may not agree with some of his views, but he certainly seems to be honestly conveying his thoughts and feelings on the subject. I agree with most of what he said, and I think you could learn a lot from him, if you will allow yourself to at least consider some of the things he has said. While you may feel it's o.k for folks to do whatever they want, the large majority do not feel this way, and they are the ones who make the laws, and through this process, sometimes restrict others freedoms. Still, as Jallman mentioned, these people crave attention, this will never change, and you will never be able to hide this kind of person away, he or she will always demand center stage. You can do one thing though, you can denounce this behavior, and Jallman has done this, and done it quite well.

 

[jallman]

You mentioned a 'bunch of leather guys on a float' in one of your first posts about the parades. If you were truly NOT intolerant, you wouldn't care if a porn star was on a float looking sexy. And you're the one programmed by the exact dogma that you pretend to be against. You seem very intolerant of others' sexual practices. They have every right to march in a parade as you. If they are advocating mutilation through piercings, tattoos, branding, scarification and showing off what is beautiful to THEM, why would that be considered 'inappropriate'?? As long as they aren't forcing people to view their prince albert, and even then, as long as they didnt' FORCE It, I could care less. More power to them for subscribing to a subculture that satisfies them. Personally I LOVE to see wild tattoos and piercings. I have quite a few myself.

Show me the post. And dont take it out of context to support your own agenda. I have NO problems with tattoos and piercings...I have two of each. But, there is a time and place for everything and monopolizing a public thoroughfare for the express purpose of carousing in exhibitionism and shock attacks on the majority of our community is WRONG. how else can I explain it?

 

[Diogenes]

Sissy_Boy another thing about the gay pride parades is that they are in public and they could possibly have a negative influence on children. It might be unhealthy and psychology gross for children to see two grown men making out right and touching each other right in public.

Agreed, but I would also object to my children being exposed to a similar display by heterosexuals. There are just some things that should be kept behind closed doors...

 

[jallman]

Agreed, but I would also object to my children being exposed to a similar display by heterosexuals. There are just some things that should be kept behind closed doors...

This is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along...its not the orientation of the display, its the gross crudeness and exhibitionism at what is billed as a COMMUNITY event. But because I believe this way, now sissy-boy is making me out to be a homophobic homosexual.

 

[sissy-boy]

Well I think it's vile. But, than again...I am a vegan. :mrgreen:

HAHA!!

I actually know of a couple vegan SM people who refuse to buy NEW leather. They are vegan and only buy used or at thrift stores....

Not sure if I think that is a valid excuse or not

 

[sissy-boy]

Show me the post. And dont take it out of context to support your own agenda. I have NO problems with tattoos and piercings...I have two of each. But, there is a time and place for everything and monopolizing a public thoroughfare for the express purpose of carousing in exhibitionism and shock attacks on the majority of our community is WRONG. how else can I explain it?

What's 'shock' for you is normalcy to some. People are indeed diverse and deserve respect for their diversity. If you don't like it, then you shouldn't be there. Some religious weirdos would be shocked that you have anything pierced. If a tattoo shocks them I could care less. And if semi-nude porn stars shocks you I could care less too.

 

[George_Washington]

Well I think it's vile. But, than again...I am a vegan. :mrgreen:

LOL There is nothing wrong with leather. Leather is awesome. Leather jackets and coats kick ass. I guess you object to it because it's from animals? I personally don't see anything wrong with killing animals and wearing their skin. It's either that or eat them for the most part.

 

[Kelzie]

HAHA!!

I actually know of a couple vegan SM people who refuse to buy NEW leather. They are vegan and only buy used or at thrift stores....

Not sure if I think that is a valid excuse or not

I do have some pre-vegan cowboy boots. I feel guilty wearing them, but I love them so much I don't want to give them away...life sucks. :lol:

 

[Diogenes]

What's 'shock' for you is normalcy to some.

True, and some behavior is so shocking that the perpetrators have to be locked up. You will find the world to be a much friendlier place when you don't flaunt your contempt for the values of others.

 

[jallman]

True, and some behavior is so shocking that the perpetrators have to be locked up. You will find the world to be a much friendlier place when you don't flaunt your contempt for the values of others.

That was a much clearer way to say what I was trying to articulate. Its not so much about showing your values openly as it is about having contempt for the values of others. Man, I was looking back at our three day row we had and I noticed I did call you a bigot twice...I'm sorry about that, you have shown some really respectable values.

 

[teacher]

He said that he should be ASSASSINATED, in pure English.

That's his opinion and he's entitled to it. My problem with him is he said God told him to run for President. That to me makes him a liar or a loon. I'm Christian and he does not represent me. Just like gay parades it's the parents chioce to watch him or not. Do you have any idea how many times I've seen the Lion king and such?