A Question To Consider -- Would Putin Be Attacking Ukraine Right Now If Not For Jan 6?

[EdwinWillers]

Yeah, look what you said about Biden. When Biden is asleep he's a more capable President than Trump could ever be.

Flame noted.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

He would still be invading.

It's very possible. I'm not saying that I'm correct.

 

[Mycroft]

True, given how well Trump stood up to Putin, Vlad wouldn’t have crossed Donald.

Correct.

There are other stories making the rounds, too, and they are even more provocative. One has it that Trump — noting that Putin seized land from Georgia when George W. Bush was president and seized the Crimean peninsula when Barack Obama was president — warned Putin against a land grab on his watch.

“If you move against Ukraine while I’m president,” Trump is said to have told the Russian leader, “I will hit Moscow.”

Putin reportedly scoffed, “No way,” leading Trump to say, “All those beautiful golden turrets will be blown up.”

A similar story involves Chinese President Xi Jinping. It was during his visit to Mar-a-Lago in 2017 when Trump famously interrupted their chocolate cake dessert to declare he had just ordered the US military to fire 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian air base after the Syrian government used chemical weapons against rebels and civilians.

During that same visit, Trump reportedly told Xi that any military move against Taiwan would be met with an attack on Beijing. Xi, like Putin, is said to have been stunned, though it is possible neither man believed Trump was serious. While it is also possible that both accounts are exaggerated, it is a fact that neither man made the moves Trump is said to have warned against.

Trump talks about Putin, mocking Merkel and more at Mar-a-Lago

It was Presidents’ Day and Donald Trump looked especially relaxed. Wearing a white golf shirt emblazoned with the presidential seal, he was talkative without being combative.

nypost.com

 

[Lutherf]

No, I don't believe that for an instant.

The only thing that would give anyone a reason to believe the US is somehow weakened is the current administration and its doddering old "leader."

If he was merely "doddering" I could handle that. His problem is that he's been in DC so long that he's deeply beholden to EVERYONE! He's unable to do anything because anyone he does one thing for causes everyone else he owes a favor to to get bent out of shape.

Then again, maybe if he whispers into the microphone at his next presser that will scare Putin enough to change his life.

 

[SCrider]

No, I don't believe that for an instant.

The only thing that would give anyone a reason to believe the US is somehow weakened is the current administration and its doddering old "leader."

Seriously You got your cult leader, a former president, Spreading lies and propping up Putin. This country is weakened by your ilk choosing to follow liars even when you know they are lying to you.

 

[Mithrae]

Correct.

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A similar story involves Chinese President Xi Jinping. It was during his visit to Mar-a-Lago in 2017 when Trump famously interrupted their chocolate cake dessert to declare he had just ordered the US military to fire 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian air base after the Syrian government used chemical weapons against rebels and civilians.​

​

During that same visit, Trump reportedly told Xi that any military move against Taiwan would be met with an attack on Beijing. Xi, like Putin, is said to have been stunned, though it is possible neither man believed Trump was serious. While it is also possible that both accounts are exaggerated, it is a fact that neither man made the moves Trump is said to have warned against.​

Trump talks about Putin, mocking Merkel and more at Mar-a-Lago

It was Presidents’ Day and Donald Trump looked especially relaxed. Wearing a white golf shirt emblazoned with the presidential seal, he was talkative without being combative.

nypost.com

The madman theory is a political theory commonly associated with US President Richard Nixon's foreign policy. Nixon and his administration tried to make the leaders of hostile Communist Bloc nations think he was irrational and volatile. According to the theory, those leaders would then avoid provoking the United States, fearing an unpredictable American response.​

​

Some International relations scholars have been skeptical of madman theory as a strategy for success in bargaining.[1][2] One study found that madman theory is frequently counterproductive, but that it can be an asset under certain conditions.[3]​

Madman theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

What would a more united United States be doing that Putin would be afraid of? I imagine he considers it a nice bit of icing on the cake that Trump, Carlson and all the rest are praising him up while painting Ukraine as a cesspool of corruption ruled by the Biden Crime Family... but I can't see it changing a whole lot were American politics more normal.

That's a good question and a good point. I guess my response to that would be that the U.S. has lost some of its moral high ground. We can't preach about "protecting democracy" anymore, when we can't even defend it in our own country very well.

Putin sees this hypocrisy in the U.S. and it makes him bolder.

 

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

We'll never know the answer to that question. Personally, I think Jan 6 had a significant impact on Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. I think Jan 6 emboldened Putin.

Putin saw the despicable insurrection attempt on the U.S. Capitol and how a U.S. political party (i.e. the Republican Party) has given up on democracy. He saw how 147 members of the Republican Party tried to overthrow a duly elected President, with no evidence of voter fraud.

Putin saw a weakened America on Jan 6 where democracy is struggling to survive. In my opinion, Jan 6 helped make the invasion of Ukraine a gamble worth taking for Putin.

Do you mean that, because the US 2020 Election was stolen and even a protest like Jan 6th DID NOT correct the Coup, Thus Russia invaded?
I would say that's most likely true.

But if your TRYING (REAL HARD) to turn the facts around just to make you FEEL that Trumps the bad guy, I'm gonna say that that's just too
much of a stupid stretch!

"IF" your crazy idea were true, then Putin would have invaded on Jan 6th, and not after all Trumps cases were avoided by procedural technicalities!

FACTS:
Under obama: Putin invaded Georgia, Annexed Crimea, has his forces in Syria massacring the civilians, stepping over Obama's Line in the Sand!(8yrs)
Under Trump: Putin got his @$$ Beat in Syria, twice!(4yrs)
Under Brandon: >1yr Putin is invading Ukraine, but tells the invalid that he is sending in peace keeper !.....

P.S. Quit with the "DEMOCRACY" crap ! America is a COSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC! Get a Clue !

 

[Mithrae]

That's a good question and a good point. I guess my response to that would be that the U.S. has lost some of its moral high ground. We can't preach about "protecting democracy" anymore, when we can't even defend it in our own country very well.

Putin sees this hypocrisy in the U.S. and it makes him bolder.

The American invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq in 2001 and 2003 did that, hundreds of times moreso than any tin-pot insurrection attempt ever could. @Craig234 made a thread - and he's hardly the only one to have noticed - regarding the similarities in rhetoric between Putin now and Bush in 2003. Americans (and Brits and Aussies) chose to not only maintain, but dramatically underscore a might-makes-right form of international 'order,' and it's a pretty safe bet that with America now waning and China fast becoming a superpower in its own right this isn't going to be the last time we see even nastier countries following our example.

 

[bomberfox]

The madman theory is a political theory commonly associated with US President Richard Nixon's foreign policy. Nixon and his administration tried to make the leaders of hostile Communist Bloc nations think he was irrational and volatile. According to the theory, those leaders would then avoid provoking the United States, fearing an unpredictable American response.​

​

Some International relations scholars have been skeptical of madman theory as a strategy for success in bargaining.[1][2] One study found that madman theory is frequently counterproductive, but that it can be an asset under certain conditions.[3]​

Madman theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I dont think it was an act though.

 

[Mycroft]

The madman theory is a political theory commonly associated with US President Richard Nixon's foreign policy. Nixon and his administration tried to make the leaders of hostile Communist Bloc nations think he was irrational and volatile. According to the theory, those leaders would then avoid provoking the United States, fearing an unpredictable American response.​

​

Some International relations scholars have been skeptical of madman theory as a strategy for success in bargaining.[1][2] One study found that madman theory is frequently counterproductive, but that it can be an asset under certain conditions.[3]​

Madman theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Trump doesn't play the "madman" game. He tells you what he'll do...and if you don't believe him, he does it. Just ask China.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

The American invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq in 2001 and 2003 did that, hundreds of times moreso than any tin-pot insurrection attempt ever could. Americans (and Brits and Aussies) chose to not only maintain, but dramatically underscore a might-makes-right form of international 'order,' and it's a pretty safe bet that with America now waning and China fast becoming a superpower in its own right this isn't going to be the last time we see even nastier countries following our example.

That I don't agree with. You are downplaying the significance of Jan 6.

147 Republicans voted on Jan 6 to overturn Biden's victory. That is very significant. If the Republicans had controlled the House on Jan 6, Trump could very well have gotten away with his steal.

Putin saw all of this and he understands all of this.

 

[SCrider]

Trump doesn't play the "madman" game. He tells you what he'll do...and if you don't believe him, he does it. Just ask China.

Replace ACA in two weeks?

 

[Bullseye]

We'll never know the answer to that question. Personally, I think Jan 6 had a significant impact on Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. I think Jan 6 emboldened Putin.

Putin saw the despicable insurrection attempt on the U.S. Capitol and how a U.S. political party (i.e. the Republican Party) has given up on democracy. He saw how 147 members of the Republican Party tried to overthrow a duly elected President, with no evidence of voter fraud.

Putin saw a weakened America on Jan 6 where democracy is struggling to survive. In my opinion, Jan 6 helped make the invasion of Ukraine a gamble worth taking for Putin.

The ONLY people in the ENTIRE WORLD that care about J6 are loony lefties. I'd suggest Biden's unhinged performance and apparent confusion might be a factor. After watching us wallow around in Afghanistan, for instance, demostrated the US Military wasn't in top form.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

True, given how well Trump stood up to Putin, Vlad wouldn’t have crossed Donald.

 

[Linc]

Trump doesn't play the "madman" game. He tells you what he'll do...and if you don't believe him, he does it. Just ask China.

trump was a madman with guardrails. Putin is a madman without guardrails.

trump approved Xi’s genocidal slaughter and ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs.

trump sold out the Kurds and approved erDOGan’s ethnic cleansing of the Kurds.

Keep parroting the lines of the world’s dictators.

 

[Mycroft]

Replace ACA in two weeks?

Just ask Canada about how Trump told them...if they didn't come to the table and renegotiate NAFTA...he'll make his own deal with Mexico. And he did.

 

[ModerationNow!]

We'll never know the answer to that question. Personally, I think Jan 6 had a significant impact on Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. I think Jan 6 emboldened Putin.

Putin saw the despicable insurrection attempt on the U.S. Capitol and how a U.S. political party (i.e. the Republican Party) has given up on democracy. He saw how 147 members of the Republican Party tried to overthrow a duly elected President, with no evidence of voter fraud.

Putin saw a weakened America on Jan 6 where democracy is struggling to survive. In my opinion, Jan 6 helped make the invasion of Ukraine a gamble worth taking for Putin.

Seriously? Yeah, that's what caused Putin to invade! A mostly peaceful protest where a few hundred unarmed dumbasses rioted, entered the capitol and walked around taking selfies, before leaving. That was surely the pivotal event that made his decision easy! But certainly he wouldn't have been paying attention to 6+ months of daily/nightly BLM protesting and rioting, to the praise of democrats and media..... No, no....

I'm sure Biden's catastrophic MILITARY failure in Afghanistan didn't have ANY bearing on Putin's decision! Or the FACT that he'd already gotten away with invading Ukraine under the Obama/Biden admin! Or that the Biden family enriched themselves in Ukraine, China AND Russia by countless millions of dollars, by selling influence! No, that would be too logical......

 

[Linc]

The ONLY people in the ENTIRE WORLD that care about J6 are loony lefties. I'd suggest Biden's unhinged performance and apparent confusion might be a factor. After watching us wallow around in Afghanistan, for instance, demostrated the US Military wasn't in top form.

Putin enjoys your response to Republies trying to overthrow the government.

 

[Mithrae]

I dont think it was an act though.

Does Trump really care enough about Ukraine or Taiwan to start a likely nuclear war over them? The whole 'tough guy' schtick was one of the main pillars of Bonespurs' political persona. Whether or not he said that sort of stuff to Putin and Jinping in private, he certainly did so very publicly to Kim Jong-un. I'm guessing that in the absolute best book ever written that's sold the most ever copies (The Art of the Deal) there's at least one chapter on hardline 'negotiation' and probably even the phrase "nuclear option" once or twice

 

[Mycroft]

trump was a madman with guardrails. Putin is a madman without guardrails.

You've been internalizing Trump hating spin.

trump approved Xi’s genocidal slaughter and ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs.

No. He didn't.

trump sold out the Kurds and approved erDOGan’s ethnic cleansing of the Kurds.

Again...he didn't. He got Syria and Russia to protect the Kurds.

Keep parroting the lines of the world’s dictators.

The only parrot squawks I hear are coming from you.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Seriously? Yeah, that's what caused Putin to invade! A mostly peaceful protest where a few hundred unarmed dumbasses rioted, entered the capitol and walked around taking selfies, before leaving. That was surely the pivotal event that made his decision easy! But certainly he wouldn't have been paying attention to 6+ months of daily/nightly BLM protesting and rioting, to the praise of democrats and media..... No, no....

I'm sure Biden's catastrophic MILITARY failure in Afghanistan didn't have ANY bearing on Putin's decision! Or the FACT that he'd already gotten away with invading Ukraine under the Obama/Biden admin! Or that the Biden family enriched themselves in Ukraine, China AND Russia by countless millions of dollars, by selling influence! No, that would be too logical......

I didn't say "cause". Don't put words in my mouth.

I'm saying it's a factor, because Jan 6 revealed how weak that U.S. democracy has become. And this emboldens Putin.

 

[bomberfox]

Does Trump really care enough about Ukraine or Taiwan to start a likely nuclear war over them? The whole 'tough guy' schtick was one of the main pillars of Bonespurs' political persona. Whether or not he said that sort of stuff to Putin and Jinping in private, he certainly did so very publicly to Kim Jong-un. I'm guessing that in the absolute best book ever written that's sold the most ever copies (The Art of the Deal) there's at least one chapter on hardline 'negotiation' and probably even the phrase "nuclear option" once or twice

Yeah Trump speaks in absolutes all the time.

 

[SCrider]

Just ask Canada about how Trump told them...if they didn't come to the table and renegotiate NAFTA...he'll make his own deal with Mexico. And he did.

Infrastructure?

 

[Buckeyes85]

Trump doesn't play the "madman" game. He tells you what he'll do...and if you don't believe him, he does it. Just ask China.

You are right. He tells you he will build a wall and make mexico pay for it, and he does.
He tells you he will create a great new health care plan for all, and he does.
He tells you he will release his tax returns, and he does.
He tells you he will do the impossible and eliminate the federal deficit, and he does.
He tells you he will negotiate a new, better deal with Iran, and he does.

Oh, wait. He didn't do any of that? AS well as about 100 other things he promised to do?