A Question To Consider -- Would Putin Be Attacking Ukraine Right Now If Not For Jan 6?

[Bullseye]

Putin enjoys your response to Republies trying to overthrow the government.

He's not that stupid; that's a level of idiocy reserved for loonie Dem-bot cultists.

 

[SCrider]

You are right. He tells you he will build a wall and make mexico pay for it, and he does.
He tells you he will create a great new health care plan for all, and he does.
He tells you he will release his tax returns, and he does.
He tells you he will do the impossible and eliminate the federal deficit, and he does.
He tells you he will negotiate a new, better deal with Iran, and he does.

Oh, wait. He didn't do any of that? AS well as about 100 other things he promised to do?

The guy was as honest as the day is long.......
trumpometer

 

[Mycroft]

Infrastructure?

We are talking about foreign relations. Try to focus.

ACA...infrastructure...Trump told Congress to give him a bill and he'd sign it. Same with protection for the Dreamers. They didn't. Trump didn't have the power to force Congress like he did with other countries.

Now. You want to get back on topic?

If not...you are dismissed.

 

[Mycroft]

You are right. He tells you he will build a wall and make mexico pay for it, and he does.
He tells you he will create a great new health care plan for all, and he does.
He tells you he will release his tax returns, and he does.
He tells you he will do the impossible and eliminate the federal deficit, and he does.
He tells you he will negotiate a new, better deal with Iran, and he does.

Oh, wait. He didn't do any of that? AS well as about 100 other things he promised to do?

Another one who cannot focus on the thread topic.

You are dismiss, too.

 

[SCrider]

We are talking about foreign relations. Try to focus.

ACA...infrastructure...Trump told Congress to give him a bill and he'd sign it. Same with protection for the Dreamers. They didn't. Trump didn't have the power to force Congress like he did with other countries.

Now. You want to get back on topic?

If not...you are dismissed.

Chicken shit way out.

Foreign relations. How about beautiful love letters from a savage dictator. Very presidential, no?

 

[trouble13]

We'll never know the answer to that question. Personally, I think Jan 6 had a significant impact on Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. I think Jan 6 emboldened Putin.

Putin saw the despicable insurrection attempt on the U.S. Capitol and how a U.S. political party (i.e. the Republican Party) has given up on democracy. He saw how 147 members of the Republican Party tried to overthrow a duly elected President, with no evidence of voter fraud.

Putin saw a weakened America on Jan 6 where democracy is struggling to survive. In my opinion, Jan 6 helped make the invasion of Ukraine a gamble worth taking for Putin.

Yes I think Putin was so offended by the Republicans he decided to annex his neighbor to make himself feel better. When you really think about it's really the only rational reaction he could of had.

I heard India is planning on nuking Turkey because of the Canadian trucker convoy. Stay tuned.

 

[LouC]

Jan 6 alone doesn't seem like a factor. But it is an example of the general division in the US that Putin takes advantage of.

Just the opening I was looking for!



In my considered opinion, I firmly believe Putin isn't emboldened and doing this Ukraine invasion now solely because of an alleged "weak" President Joe Biden.

Rather I believe, instead, he has been RIGHT fully emboldened to do it because of a "strong" Trump.

Putin didn't invade while Trump was still president because he didn't want to hurt the useful idiot that Trump was.

Trump and his R-Winger cronies have been thoroughly destabilizing America from even before President Joe Biden's presidency began.

Destabilizing from Congress on down. Sowing the seeds of discontent. That is the paradigm of the RIGHT.

Thanks to all the mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, chest thumping, self lobotomized cretinous Trump Stupid’s who are destroying and destabilizing our country, or trying to.

Harming us as a people and a nation via pushing Trump’s idiotic “Big Lie” conspiracy constantly promoting the idea that President Joe Biden’s presidency is somehow “illegitimate.”

Other minions of insanity are out there pushing book banning by riling up parents and school boards with lies and misinformation and fear and hate.

Some are literally conducting or participating in Brown Shirt type book burnings, attacking what they see as the dangerous intellectual elite.

In some Republican controlled State assemblies legislation is being proposed and some has already passed that insanely force evil sanctions or outlaws CRT teaching in schools, where it has never even been taught or even proposed for the curriculums.

Several GOP controlled States are also adding ever-increasing voting restrictions and limitations rather than expanding suffrage. Way too many of these new Elector restriction laws are passing in these states not out of need to fix a broken system, no, they are being implemented out of fear and misinformation or outright disregard for reality. If not in hopes of limiting who votes for purely partisan reasons.

Oh, we cannot leave out those ill-informed folks supporting the anti vaccine movement, or those enabling anti masking movements, some of which are oft turning violent.

Then we see a southern governor shamelessly being anti LGBTQ, even to the point of using kids, students, as weapons; fomenting legal attacks on their parents via the highly questionable infiltration into private matters!

We can add all of that in to Trump's total failure to get the country quickly moving in the right direction when COVID first came along mishandling the response and as a result handing off a nation already in a shit storm of turmoil to President Biden, all while instigating insurrection and at times violent political dissent.

What more could Putin have asked for?

 

[Perotista]

We'll never know the answer to that question. Personally, I think Jan 6 had a significant impact on Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. I think Jan 6 emboldened Putin.

Putin saw the despicable insurrection attempt on the U.S. Capitol and how a U.S. political party (i.e. the Republican Party) has given up on democracy. He saw how 147 members of the Republican Party tried to overthrow a duly elected President, with no evidence of voter fraud.

Putin saw a weakened America on Jan 6 where democracy is struggling to survive. In my opinion, Jan 6 helped make the invasion of Ukraine a gamble worth taking for Putin.

6 Jan was totally irrelevant to Putin’s decision to invade the Ukraine. If anything, it was the success of his attempt to sow distrust in our election system beginning in 2016. He seen how divided we had become, especially in today’s modern political era of polarization, the great divide and super, mega, ultra-partisanship where a third of each major party view those of the other party as this nation’s number one or biggest enemy.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...2020/voters_see_each_other_as_america_s_enemy

 

[trouble13]

Well let's be totally honest here - the only reason Putin is attacking the Ukraine is because Trump asked him to after failing in his treasonous, traitorous, seditious, not-at-all-funny coup d-etat of the Capitol with his massive army of white supremacists, agrarian deplorables, and disillusioned soccer moms; that and Biden gave him the nod (as told), in exchange for consideration for Hunter and thanks for fixing the election, and Nancy Pelosi couldn't be reached because she was getting a facelift (without a mask), and AOC received assurances she'd get several hundred barrels of her special "Russki Red" lipstick for a nod in Putin's favor.

I mean seriously, what the frell is the premise of this inane thread in the first place? "Putin bad. Republicans worse?"

I heard Ukraine fell behind in their protection payments to Biden so he hired Russia to rough them up.

 

[trouble13]

Just the opening I was looking for!



In my considered opinion, I firmly believe Putin isn't emboldened and doing this Ukraine invasion now solely because of an alleged "weak" President Joe Biden.

Rather I believe, instead, he has been RIGHT fully emboldened to do it because of a "strong" Trump.

Putin didn't invade while Trump was still president because he didn't want to hurt the useful idiot that Trump was.

Trump and his R-Winger cronies have been thoroughly destabilizing America from even before President Joe Biden's presidency began.

Destabilizing from Congress on down. Sowing the seeds of discontent. That is the paradigm of the RIGHT.

Thanks to all the mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, chest thumping, self lobotomized cretinous Trump Stupid’s who are destroying and destabilizing our country, or trying to.

Harming us as a people and a nation via pushing Trump’s idiotic “Big Lie” conspiracy constantly promoting the idea that President Joe Biden’s presidency is somehow “illegitimate.”

Other minions of insanity are out there pushing book banning by riling up parents and school boards with lies and misinformation and fear and hate.

Some are literally conducting or participating in Brown Shirt type book burnings, attacking what they see as the dangerous intellectual elite.

In some Republican controlled State assemblies legislation is being proposed and some has already passed that insanely force evil sanctions or outlaws CRT teaching in schools, where it has never even been taught or even proposed for the curriculums.

Several GOP controlled States are also adding ever-increasing voting restrictions and limitations rather than expanding suffrage. Way too many of these new Elector restriction laws are passing in these states not out of need to fix a broken system, no, they are being implemented out of fear and misinformation or outright disregard for reality. If not in hopes of limiting who votes for purely partisan reasons.

Oh, we cannot leave out those ill-informed folks supporting the anti vaccine movement, or those enabling anti masking movements, some of which are oft turning violent.

Then we see a southern governor shamelessly being anti LGBTQ, even to the point of using kids, students, as weapons; fomenting legal attacks on their parents via the highly questionable infiltration into private matters!

We can add all of that in to Trump's total failure to get the country quickly moving in the right direction when COVID first came along mishandling the response and as a result handing off a nation already in a shit storm of turmoil to President Biden, all while instigating insurrection and at times violent political dissent.

What more could Putin have asked for?

Did Vladd forget what happened that last time he went toe-to-toe with Joe? Joe sure hasn't. He ran on it.

 

[Mithrae]

That I don't agree with. You are downplaying the significance of Jan 6.

147 Republicans voted on Jan 6 to overturn Biden's victory. That is very significant. If the Republicans had controlled the House on Jan 6, Trump could very well have gotten away with his steal.

Putin saw all of this and he understands all of this.

As @Crovax pointed out, Russian military incursion and occupation/annexation of Georgian and Ukrainian separatist regions occurred in 2008 and 2014. Those are somewhat different from full scale invasion of a sovereign state as a whole, but they're obviously part of the same pattern: US invasions of sovereign states in 2001 and 2003, Russian occupation/annexation of separatist regions in 2008 and 2014, Russian invasion of a sovereign state in 2022. Trying to shoehorn American domestic squabbles into that sequence is neither necessary nor persuasive.

At most, having helped Trump secure the presidency may have made it a little more expedient for Putin to wait a few more years and see how things might play out to his advantage, but given that pattern I'd be inclined to suspect that the eventual invasion of Ukraine was, if not a foregone conclusion at least very much on the table as a plausible eventual contingency from its commencement of a NATO Membership Action Plan in 2008 and even moreso after the Euromaiden unrest. Not that I know anything about it all

 

[Fishking]

We'll never know the answer to that question. Personally, I think Jan 6 had a significant impact on Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. I think Jan 6 emboldened Putin.

Putin saw the despicable insurrection attempt on the U.S. Capitol and how a U.S. political party (i.e. the Republican Party) has given up on democracy. He saw how 147 members of the Republican Party tried to overthrow a duly elected President, with no evidence of voter fraud.

Putin saw a weakened America on Jan 6 where democracy is struggling to survive. In my opinion, Jan 6 helped make the invasion of Ukraine a gamble worth taking for Putin.

That's has to be the weakest and attempt at using 6 Jan for an excuse for something I've ever seen. Holy shit this is dumb. You know, I also hear that world hunger would be over by now if it wasn't for Jan 6 as well.

 

[Fishking]

147 Republicans voted on Jan 6 to overturn Biden's victory.

No they didn't.

 

[The flaming lib]

Putin attacked because China Joe is the potus. That’s all folks. Pretty simple.
but y’all can blame trump if it makes you feel better

 

[Patriotic Voter]

We'll never know the answer to that question. Personally, I think Jan 6 had a significant impact on Putin's decision to attack Ukraine. I think Jan 6 emboldened Putin.

Putin saw the despicable insurrection attempt on the U.S. Capitol and how a U.S. political party (i.e. the Republican Party) has given up on democracy. He saw how 147 members of the Republican Party tried to overthrow a duly elected President, with no evidence of voter fraud.

Putin saw a weakened America on Jan 6 where democracy is struggling to survive. In my opinion, Jan 6 helped make the invasion of Ukraine a gamble worth taking for Putin.

Complete nonsense. Who was America's president when Putin stole Crimea? Who was our president when he sent troops to Georgia before that? Did he not invade Belarus too?

The only reason Putin decided not to invade Ukraine during the last five years is Trump the Terrorist made personal deals with him. That is why Trump pretended Ukraine is corrupt in 2019. The only "corruption" in Ukraine is Russian troops.

 

[LouC]

We are talking about foreign relations. Try to focus.

ACA...infrastructure...Trump told Congress to give him a bill and he'd sign it. Same with protection for the Dreamers. They didn't. Trump didn't have the power to force Congress like he did with other countries.

Now. You want to get back on topic?

If not...you are dismissed.

Links?

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Yes I think Putin was so offended by the Republicans he decided to annex his neighbor to make himself feel better. When you really think about it's really the only rational reaction he could of had.

I heard India is planning on nuking Turkey because of the Canadian trucker convoy. Stay tuned.

You obviously have no understanding of my point. Nowhere did I imply that Putin was "offended" by the Republicans.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Complete nonsense. Who was America's president when Putin stole Crimea? Who was our president when he sent troops to Georgia before that? Did he not invade Belarus too?

The only reason Putin decided not to invade Ukraine during the last five years is Trump the Terrorist made personal deals with him. That is why Trump pretended Ukraine is corrupt in 2019. The only "corruption" in Ukraine is Russian troops.

Again, Crimea and Georgia are nothing compared to Ukraine. Ukraine is 10 times the size of Georgia. The U.S. and NATO did not object strongly to Georgia. And Belarus is a satellite state of Russia, on very friendly terms with Russia.

I'm not buying it regarding Trump's "personal deals" with Putin. First of all, Trump is not smart enough to negotiate something like that with Putin. Secondly, Trump wouldn't make any deal with Putin regarding Ukraine because he simply doesn't care about Ukraine. The only "deal" that Trump attempted regarding Ukraine ended up getting himself impeached.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

No they didn't.

Yes, they certainly did.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

As @Crovax pointed out, Russian military incursion and occupation/annexation of Georgian and Ukrainian separatist regions occurred in 2008 and 2014. Those are somewhat different from full scale invasion of a sovereign state as a whole, but they're obviously part of the same pattern: US invasions of sovereign states in 2001 and 2003, Russian occupation/annexation of separatist regions in 2008 and 2014, Russian invasion of a sovereign state in 2022. Trying to shoehorn American domestic squabbles into that sequence is neither necessary nor persuasive.

At most, having helped Trump secure the presidency may have made it a little more expedient for Putin to wait a few more years and see how things might play out to his advantage, but given that pattern I'd be inclined to suspect that the eventual invasion of Ukraine was, if not a foregone conclusion at least very much on the table as a plausible eventual contingency from its commencement of a NATO Membership Action Plan in 2008 and even moreso after the Euromaiden unrest. Not that I know anything about it all

That's a very good, legitimate point. You could very well be correct. Your whole reply was very good.

 

[Fishking]

Yes, they certainly did.

No...that didn't happen. They voted to not certify, which is not an overturning Biden's victory. The worse you could say is that they would've delayed it until all the confusion that existed post election was cleared up and looked into.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Again, Crimea and Georgia are nothing compared to Ukraine. Ukraine is 10 times the size of Georgia. The U.S. and NATO did not object strongly to Georgia. And Belarus is a satellite state of Russia, on very friendly terms with Russia.

I'm not buying it regarding Trump's "personal deals" with Putin. First of all, Trump is not smart enough to negotiate something like that with Putin. Secondly, Trump wouldn't make any deal with Putin regarding Ukraine because he simply doesn't care about Ukraine. The only "deal" that Trump attempted regarding Ukraine ended up getting himself impeached.

Crimea was part of Ukraine. This is the second time Russia has invaded Ukraine in less than 10 years.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

6 Jan was totally irrelevant to Putin’s decision to invade the Ukraine. If anything, it was the success of his attempt to sow distrust in our election system beginning in 2016. He seen how divided we had become, especially in today’s modern political era of polarization, the great divide and super, mega, ultra-partisanship where a third of each major party view those of the other party as this nation’s number one or biggest enemy.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...2020/voters_see_each_other_as_america_s_enemy

Yes, the 2016 election could have been a very big factor as well, even a bigger factor. Good point. You definitely can't rule that out.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Crimea was part of Ukraine. This is the second time Russia has invaded Ukraine in less than 10 years.

Crimea was part of the old Russian empire for close to 200 years. It was disputed territory. Russia annexing Crimea was obviously wrong, but it's not as egregious or bold as invading Ukraine. Obama was absolutely correct to implement sanctions against Russia after the Crimea annexation.

 

[Mycroft]

Foreign relations. How about beautiful love letters from a savage dictator. Very presidential, no?

Actually, it is.

Trump was using China's tactics against them and others: Outwardly express friendship and kindness. (The Panda.) But through actions, make it clear that he will do what he says. (The Dragon.)