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A Part-time Keto Diet?

What's wrong with burning ketones (fat) over glucose? Do you think the body should only burn glucose? What diet do you think is the best for optimal health?

I don't know. I just know they're low-carb meals. Are they unhealthy?

With respect:

Read the reputable sources that are linked in this thread.


Aim for being within the recommended macronutrient ranges:

Quote:

The acceptable macronutrient distribution ranges (AMDR) are 45–65% of your daily calories from carbs, 20–35% from fats and 10–35% from protein. To lose weight, find a ratio you can stick with, focus on healthy foods and eat fewer calories than you burn.


Read this document:

 
With respect:

Read the reputable sources that are linked in this thread.


Aim for being within the recommended macronutrient ranges:

Quote:

The acceptable macronutrient distribution ranges (AMDR) are 45–65% of your daily calories from carbs, 20–35% from fats and 10–35% from protein. To lose weight, find a ratio you can stick with, focus on healthy foods and eat fewer calories than you burn.


Read this document:


What's wrong with burning fat instead of glucose?

The Food Pyramid way of eating has resulted in mass obesity and Type 2 diabetes across the country. You should absolutely not be eating that many carbs as they turn into sugar.
 
So according to @Antiwar ... any meal that is "low carb" (protein, healthy fats, a little carbs) is unhealthy.

Any meal that is mostly carbs (mostly sugar, some fat, a little protein) is healthy.

Makes perfect sense, eh?
 
What's wrong with burning fat instead of glucose?

The Food Pyramid way of eating has resulted in mass obesity and Type 2 diabetes across the country. You should absolutely not be eating that many carbs as they turn into sugar.

With respect:

You and @JasperL seem to be immune to digesting information that goes against your unfounded beliefs. There are plenty of credible links and quotes in this thread that explicitly state the serious risks of eating keto and keto-like diets. The human body is meant to use glucose: blood-sugar levels are very important. The human body will resort to using ketones, if it can't get glucose. The human body will use all kinds of unhealthy strategies as efforts to survive.

An analogy: Keto and keto-like diets are like burning bunker fuel (very heavy and dirty ship fuel) in a car meant to run on unleaded gasoline.

Another car analogy: Keto and keto-like diets are like saying cars should run on a 1:14.7 air-fuel ratio instead of the proper 14.7:1 air-fuel ratio.


Obesity, type 2 diabetes, and all kinds of other preventable "lifestyle" diseases are due to NOT following recommended dietary guidelines. Keto and keto-like diets purposely do NOT follow recommended dietary guidelines.
 
With respect:

Read the reputable sources that are linked in this thread.


Aim for being within the recommended macronutrient ranges:

Quote:

The acceptable macronutrient distribution ranges (AMDR) are 45–65% of your daily calories from carbs, 20–35% from fats and 10–35% from protein. To lose weight, find a ratio you can stick with, focus on healthy foods and eat fewer calories than you burn.


Read this document:

The problem with those guidelines is there's exactly zero evidence that they are optimal for really anyone, and certainly they may not be optimal for someone obese or with T2D. What the guidelines suggest, for example, is that someone insulin resistant, and therefore swimming in insulin all day, with blood sugar chronically too high, eat a bunch of carbs every day that the body converts to glucose, and cannot effectively clear from the blood but must do so, because the FDA says we need roughly 900 calories from carbs.

And for many of us, the "ratio we can live with" is LCHF or keto.
 
With respect:

You and @JasperL seem to be immune to digesting information that goes against your unfounded beliefs. There are plenty of credible links and quotes in this thread that explicitly state the serious risks of eating keto and keto-like diets. The human body is meant to use glucose: blood-sugar levels are very important. The human body will resort to using ketones, if it can't get glucose. The human body will use all kinds of unhealthy strategies as efforts to survive.

And I've asked you repeatedly ---- what is wrong with your body burning ketones (fat) when it runs out of glucose to burn?

An analogy: Keto and keto-like diets are like burning bunker fuel (very heavy and dirty ship fuel) in a car meant to run on unleaded gasoline.

Another car analogy: Keto and keto-like diets are like saying cars should run on a 1:14.7 air-fuel ratio instead of the proper 14.7:1 air-fuel ratio.


Obesity, type 2 diabetes, and all kinds of other preventable "lifestyle" diseases are due to NOT following recommended dietary guidelines. Keto and keto-like diets purposely do NOT follow recommended dietary guidelines.

Can you have too much glucose in your body?
 
The key to dieting and weight control is nutrition, supplements, exercise, proper sleep, stress decompression, and calorie restriction. If you do these in moderation, you can eat something naughty now and then, maybe 2-3 times a week. Portion size matters. I lean towards the paleo diet but eat carbs in small amounts.
 
The only things in the entire universe that taste good are salt, sugar, and fat, and this tells me very conclusively there is no god.
 
With respect:

You and @JasperL seem to be immune to digesting information that goes against your unfounded beliefs. There are plenty of credible links and quotes in this thread that explicitly state the serious risks of eating keto and keto-like diets.
Not really. The only "serious" risks mentioned are for very special cases, like those with existing kidney disease or pregnant women. For the rest of us, including the huge number of people in our country obese or with T2D, the risks are not so apparent, although obviously anyone taking drugs to control T2B or high blood pressure should only eat keto under close supervision because they may need their meds adjusted for a lower carb diet.
The human body is meant to use glucose: blood-sugar levels are very important.
It will use glucose, but it's "meant" to use both glucose, which the body can produce just fine from fat and protein, and ketones. And someone reasonably healthy will not suffer from hypoglycemia after adjusting to burning fat for fuel. That might be a risk to someone carb addicted, but that effect is short lived. Otherwise, the body keeps glucose levels in a healthy range without effort on our part. It's why our ancestors didn't die when they had to fast for a few days or weeks, and in fact were mentally sharp and physically able to hunt and kill prey while in a fasted state.
The human body will resort to using ketones, if it can't get glucose. The human body will use all kinds of unhealthy strategies as efforts to survive.
But that's just nonsense. Our bodies developed the ability to store fat as a "survival mechanism" when food is scarce, which for our ancestors was pretty much all the time. And if you want to call that ability to burn ingested or stored fat as fuel an "unhealthy strategy" then you'll need a cite to some serious research, not an opinion piece.

An analogy: Keto and keto-like diets are like burning bunker fuel (very heavy and dirty ship fuel) in a car meant to run on unleaded gasoline.
But this "car" - meaning my body - feels awesome burning so-called bunker fuel. All our bodies are in fact designed to burn on a range of fuels, and operate at peak condition, mentally and physically, on all those fuels - glucose, fat, protein, ketones.

It's called metabolic flexibility. When our ancestors had fat and protein from a killed deer, their bodies ran on that just fine. When they had a few weeks of fruit or other carbs, they ate them, and did fine on that as fuel. But the idea that our bodies were designed over millions of years to only operate optimally on foods simply not available to our ancestors much of those years is frankly absurd. Grains, for example, are a recent addition to our diet - only in earnest maybe 10,000 years ago, and then many societies still were largely carnivore and thrived on that all the way through the modern era. See, for example, native Americans that survived very heavily on buffalo, or those in the frozen north that eat nothing but animals since plants don't grow at all in those environments.
Another car analogy: Keto and keto-like diets are like saying cars should run on a 1:14.7 air-fuel ratio instead of the proper 14.7:1 air-fuel ratio.
But you've not demonstrated that burning ketones isn't healthy. Again, the research is clear our brains, for example, LOVE running on ketones. And lots of extreme endurance athletes are training their bodies to use fat for fuel, which is an advantage for someone running 30-50 miles and who doesn't need a shot of carbs every 30 minutes to make it to the end of the race. It's an advantage in all kinds of situations where a person might be required to go without a meal for long periods of time, and needs to remain mentally sharp and physically capable - soldiers for instance.
Obesity, type 2 diabetes, and all kinds of other preventable "lifestyle" diseases are due to NOT following recommended dietary guidelines. Keto and keto-like diets purposely do NOT follow recommended dietary guidelines.
Citation needed....

If you know what causes all that and can show the research, you're a good candidate for a Nobel Prize.
 
The only things in the entire universe that taste good are salt, sugar, and fat, and this tells me very conclusively there is no god.
The good news is there's likely very little risk for most of us to eat all the salt and fat we want. It is sad that sugar is so bad for our health except occasionally.
 
And I've asked you repeatedly ---- what is wrong with your body burning ketones (fat) when it runs out of glucose to burn?
I know!!!! Nothing!
Can you have too much glucose in your body?
This is what I don't understand about most nutrition advice. We know there's a massive problem of 'insulin resistance' in this country and worldwide, which means someone's body is working way too hard, producing way too much insulin, keeping levels way too high for too long, to deal with elevated blood glucose. Eventually, that turns into T2D, which is a massive killer, at the heart of all kinds of other killers like cancer, high blood pressure, heart disease, and alzheimer's.

So what do the nutritionists advise? Eat lots of carbs, several times a day, apparently just to give your body a series of shots of glucose that it struggles to clear. It makes no sense at all to me. Why not reduce your carb intake, take the burden of clearing all that glucose off your overworked metabolic system, and keep blood sugars low through diet?
 
I know!!!! Nothing!

This is what I don't understand about most nutrition advice. We know there's a massive problem of 'insulin resistance' in this country and worldwide, which means someone's body is working way too hard, producing way too much insulin, keeping levels way too high for too long, to deal with elevated blood glucose. Eventually, that turns into T2D, which is a massive killer, at the heart of all kinds of other killers like cancer, high blood pressure, heart disease, and alzheimer's.

So what do the nutritionists advise? Eat lots of carbs, several times a day, apparently just to give your body a series of shots of glucose that it struggles to clear. It makes no sense at all to me. Why not reduce your carb intake, take the burden of clearing all that glucose off your overworked metabolic system, and keep blood sugars low through diet?

Makes sense to me.
 
With respect:

It's obvious that people are going to believe what they want to believe about food. You can show some people very reputable sources that say very concerning things about keto and keto-like diets, and they'll write lengthy replies about how it's not so.

Quote:

Ketogenic diet​


How it works: Bring on the bacon. This high-fat, very low carbohydrate diet typically means eating fewer than 50 grams of carbs a day — less than four slices of bread's worth.

What it promises: Getting most of your calories from fat forces your body to use different energy pathways. Instead of carbs for energy, the body burns fat, entering a state called ketosis.

The upsides: While the precise mechanisms are unclear, ketosis is thought to have brain-protecting benefits: As many as half of young people with epilepsy had fewer seizures after following the diet. And some early research suggests it may have benefits for blood sugar control among people with diabetes. An upcoming study will look at the ketogenic diet as a weight maintenance strategy.

The downsides: While the research is exciting, there's very little evidence to show that this type of eating is effective — or safe — over the long term for anything other than epilepsy. Plus, very low carbohydrate diets tend to have higher rates of side effects, including constipation, headaches, bad breath and more. Also, meeting the diet's requirements means cutting out many healthy foods, making it difficult to meet your micronutrient needs.

Mayo's verdict: While the ketogenic diet may be recommended for some people with uncontrolled epilepsy, the high fat content — and especially the high level of unhealthy saturated fat — combined with limits on nutrient-rich fruits, veggies and grains is a concern for long-term heart health.


 
With respect:

And here's a horrible source, "Men's Health." But the article seems to do a good job of explaining the myth that "low-fat guidelines made Americans fat," which led some to believe "OMG, ALL carbohydrates are EVIL!"

 
And I've asked you repeatedly ---- what is wrong with your body burning ketones (fat) when it runs out of glucose to burn?



Can you have too much glucose in your body?

@Antiwar ?
 
With respect:

It's obvious that people are going to believe what they want to believe about food. You can show some people very reputable sources that say very concerning things about keto and keto-like diets, and they'll write lengthy replies about how it's not so.

Quote:

Ketogenic diet


How it works: Bring on the bacon. This high-fat, very low carbohydrate diet typically means eating fewer than 50 grams of carbs a day — less than four slices of bread's worth.

What it promises: Getting most of your calories from fat forces your body to use different energy pathways
. Instead of carbs for energy, the body burns fat, entering a state called ketosis.

The upsides: While the precise mechanisms are unclear, ketosis is thought to have brain-protecting benefits: As many as half of young people with epilepsy had fewer seizures after following the diet. And some early research suggests it may have benefits for blood sugar control among people with diabetes. An upcoming study will look at the ketogenic diet as a weight maintenance strategy.

The downsides: While the research is exciting, there's very little evidence to show that this type of eating is effective — or safe — over the long term for anything other than epilepsy. Plus, very low carbohydrate diets tend to have higher rates of side effects, including constipation, headaches, bad breath and more. Also, meeting the diet's requirements means cutting out many healthy foods, making it difficult to meet your micronutrient needs.

Mayo's verdict: While the ketogenic diet may be recommended for some people with uncontrolled epilepsy, the high fat content — and especially the high level of unhealthy saturated fat — combined with limits on nutrient-rich fruits, veggies and grains is a concern for long-term heart health.



Oh, the horror! Do you honestly think it's a BAD thing for your body to burn your excess fat?
 
With respect:

It's obvious that people are going to believe what they want to believe about food. You can show some people very reputable sources that say very concerning things about keto and keto-like diets, and they'll write lengthy replies about how it's not so.
And you'll ignore all those arguments to repost what amount to opinion pieces.....
The upsides: While the precise mechanisms are unclear, ketosis is thought to have brain-protecting benefits: As many as half of young people with epilepsy had fewer seizures after following the diet. And some early research suggests it may have benefits for blood sugar control among people with diabetes. An upcoming study will look at the ketogenic diet as a weight maintenance strategy.
You quote that then ignore us telling you just exactly the same thing. Weird!
The downsides: While the research is exciting, there's very little evidence to show that this type of eating is effective — or safe — over the long term for anything other than epilepsy. Plus, very low carbohydrate diets tend to have higher rates of side effects, including constipation, headaches, bad breath and more.
This is just crap. Those side effects are in the adaptation stage. They go away as people adjust to the new diet, in a matter of days or a week or two. And the 'bad breath' isn't a health-related side effect. It's related to burning ketones. That's generally also not a problem for someone adapted to keto.

This is why we ignore your sources. They really are presenting at BEST a one-sided story, and it's misleading.
Also, meeting the diet's requirements means cutting out many healthy foods, making it difficult to meet your micronutrient needs.

Mayo's verdict: While the ketogenic diet may be recommended for some people with uncontrolled epilepsy, the high fat content — and especially the high level of unhealthy saturated fat — combined with limits on nutrient-rich fruits, veggies and grains is a concern for long-term heart health.
Again, I've addressed this. It's a concern but despite multiple studies, no credible research documents those negative impacts on long term health. The research simply does not exist. You excuse that by saying a diet that's been headlined in the news since the early 1970s isn't long enough.... And the direction of recent research on saturated fat is clear - it's not actually a problem.

Here's recent research in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology:


Abstract​

The recommendation to limit dietary saturated fatty acid (SFA) intake has persisted despite mounting evidence to the contrary. Most recent meta-analyses of randomized trials and observational studies found no beneficial effects of reducing SFA intake on cardiovascular disease (CVD) and total mortality, and instead found protective effects against stroke. Although SFAs increase low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, in most individuals, this is not due to increasing levels of small, dense LDL particles, but rather larger LDL particles, which are much less strongly related to CVD risk. It is also apparent that the health effects of foods cannot be predicted by their content in any nutrient group without considering the overall macronutrient distribution. Whole-fat dairy, unprocessed meat, and dark chocolate are SFA-rich foods with a complex matrix that are not associated with increased risk of CVD. The totality of available evidence does not support further limiting the intake of such foods.
 
With respect:

You're very likely setting yourself up for intense cravings for carbohydrates by avoiding carbohydrates. Your brain and body want to run (mostly) on glucose, probably especially after you've depleted your liver's glucose storage.

In other words, after trying to eat too much fat, you're likely going to crave junk food. I know that I used to crave sugary junk food after eating heavier meals, to try to pick my energy back up.
 
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With respect:

You're very likely setting yourself up for intense cravings for carbohydrates by avoiding carbohydrates. Your brain and body want to run (mostly) on glucose, probably especially after you've depleted your liver's glucose storage.

In other words, after trying to eat too much fat, you're likely going to crave junk food. I know that I used to crave sugary junk food after eating heavier meals, to try to pick my energy back up.

That's funny you say that because when I was eating a lot of carbs, I had a constant craving for more carbs and sugar. I've been pretty strict low-carb for about a month now and I was just thinking tonight that I haven't even thought of junk food since I started. Chips, candy bars -- which I used to want to eat constantly - doesn't even sound good.
 
That's funny you say that because when I was eating a lot of carbs, I had a constant craving for more carbs and sugar. I've been pretty strict low-carb for about a month now and I was just thinking tonight that I haven't even thought of junk food since I started. Chips, candy bars -- which I used to want to eat constantly - doesn't even sound good.

With respect:

Simple carbohydrates do tend to cause cravings for more simple carbohydrates, for some people.

I finally figured out that I'm "sugar sensitive," which means I have higher sugar highs and lower sugar lows. Eating complex carbohydrates doesn't prime my cravings for simple carbohydrates, especially when I'm balancing my macronutrient percentages.
 
With respect:

You're very likely setting yourself up for intense cravings for carbohydrates by avoiding carbohydrates. Your brain and body want to run (mostly) on glucose, probably especially after you've depleted your liver's glucose storage.

In other words, after trying to eat too much fat, you're likely going to crave junk food. I know that I used to crave sugary junk food after eating heavier meals, to try to pick my energy back up.
It's not true for me. The point of keto and LCHF is to adapt your body to burning primarily fat for fuel. Doesn't matter if it's fat you consume or your stored body fat. That takes a couple of weeks or so for most people for the physical cravings, and longer to get used to it mentally. But when that happens, you simply do not need or crave carbs to run your body or your brain.

What you're describing, the drop in energy from drops in blood sugar, is in fact WHY a lot of us prefer low carb diets. Those swings in energy go away. If I had to take a huge test tomorrow (I'm long past that now....), I'd make sure and eat low carb the day before and take the test fasted. It maximizes mental clarity for me, likely because my brain is running on ketones. And just day to day, if I miss a meal, or two meals, it's fine as long as I'm busy doing something.
 
Mayo Clinic is jumping on board. Maybe the American Heart Association is next? American Diabetes Association?

 
Mayo Clinic is jumping on board. Maybe the American Heart Association is next? American Diabetes Association?

The ADA hasn't exactly embraced very low carb diets - or keto - but they have finally included those diets as 'viable options.' At some point, the many thousands of n=1 experiments people were doing, with doctor supervision, and working great I guess finally had an impact. The clinical studies aren't there yet, but those will come.

Here's the pdf of the ADA diet report.

Here's a study by Virta Health that is showing tremendous results for T2D over 2 years. They do a keto-based approach to treating T2D.

 
Well, I love pasta, and Im addicted to pizza, but I do want to try out this keto thing if it helps keep me slim. Since ketosis can take place within an 18 hour period, I was thinking, why not do it for every other day and enjoy carbs in between. Anyone ever tried this?


I have done something similar in the past (although not intentionally). I gained back what I've lost, like instantly. The moment I had the carbs, I jumped right back to weight gain.


As I understand, you want to lose some weight. You'll have to get down first to the weight that you want to be.
When you've reached that, stabilize that weight for a week or so. Then, slowly add pasta or carbs to your diet - and see how much you can have without gaining weight.

I'm not strictly on keto now....................but on "low-carbs."
I have to manage my carbs due to diabetes (which is maintained without any medication. I'm borderline to normal).
I'm still around 121 lbs.

Some fasting between two meals also works well, especially when you've reached a plateau (your weight don't budge).
Like, there's at least about 12 hours gap between my supper and breakfast. That gets your body to use up stored fats.
 
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