A new world order? BRICS nations offer alternative to West

[Fabiusbile]

Nice try but I've BEEN to your country, comrade.
And I know how those other ethnic groups are treated.

Yeah, tell me, a non-Russian, how other ethnic groups are treated in Russia))
Wait, maybe you're talking about ethnic republics with their republican national languages, where the entire document flow is duplicated in the native language of the republics? Or Jewish autonomy?
I'm sorry, but do you want to lie to me about my country? Seriously?
It's very funny to read this from a representative of a nation that staged a genocide by the Native American people, and the few survivors were driven into reservations.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yeah, tell me, a non-Russian, how other ethnic groups are treated in Russia))
Wait, maybe you're talking about ethnic republics with their republican national languages, where the entire document flow is duplicated in the native language of the republics? Or Jewish autonomy?
I'm sorry, but do you want to lie to me about my country? Seriously?
It's very funny to read this from a representative of a nation that staged a genocide by the Native American people, and the few survivors were driven into reservations.

Whataboutism detected.
I have a better idea, let's make a thread devoted exclusively to how Russia treats its minorities, should be interesting.
Whataboutism however, is an indication that you feel defensive, and it is duly noted.

 

[Juin]

BRICS is just China's way of Impearlism through lay-a-way. Ask Central Africa how that's going.

Maybe it is Chinese Imperialism vs French Imperialism. Eitherway the upside is the exploited have the opportunity to shop around for least despicable imperialists

 

[Juin]

Whataboutism detected.
I have a better idea, let's make a thread devoted exclusively to how Russia treats its minorities, should be interesting.
Whataboutism however, is an indication that you feel defensive, and it is duly noted.

Why exclusively Russian treatment of its minorities? To put it in perspective it has to be compared to how the US, UK, France, Germany treats and treated its minorities. And is Louis Farrakhan still alive? Calypso Louis should also be invited to the discussion to give some testimony on how the browns are treated.

 

[Juin]

Your country is kidnapping Ukrainian children and forcing them to become Russian.

Russia rescued ethnic Russian children from the Bandera Fascists from Lviv

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Why exclusively Russian treatment of its minorities? To put it in perspective it has to be compared to how the US, UK, France, Germany treats and treated its minorities. And is Louis Farrakhan still alive? Calypso Louis should also be invited to the discussion to give some testimony on how the browns are treated.

The guy who helped Elijah Muhammed put a hit on Malcolm X and then walked free?
Yeah, that's Russian style justice alright.
Congratulations on your effort to hijack attention away from the subject of the weak-ass BRICS alliance.
By the way, Brazil is run by someone who is adamantly opposed to fascist mobsters.

 

[Juin]

The guy who helped Elijah Muhammed put a hit on Malcolm X and then walked free?
Yeah, that's Russian style justice alright.

Calypso Louis say it be Justice, American style. Now you not gonna pin Andrew "Indian Removal Act" Jackson on Russians, are you?

Congratulations on your effort to hijack attention away from the subject of the weak-ass BRICS alliance.

If BRICS is weak, it will die; if it is not weak, it will survive. You have a dog in that fight?

By the way, Brazil is run by someone who is adamantly opposed to fascist mobsters.

In that case it will be highly entertaining to hear what Ignacio Lula has to say on the norte americanos

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Calypso Louis say it be Justice, American style.

Hey I bet you think Calypso Louis is really popular here in Yankee Land, right?
Let me clue you in on something:

He's as popular as episodes of "My Mother the Car"
I realize that you think you've discovered some ancient trove of moldy agitprop where all Americans are cowboys, gangsters or disgruntled malcontents.
It's not giving you the payoff (thread hijacking) you hoped for, it just makes it clear that you're unable to mount a coherent argument as to why BRICS isn't the Next Big Thing on the world stage, so you figure you found a Bolshoi Whataboutsky to divert attention from your weak sauce.

 

[ralfy]

This does not make me lose sleep at night.

That's why ignorance is bliss.

 

[ralfy]

India and China have formidable economics.
The rest are failed states and Brazil is a failing narcostate.

I'd like to ask the BRICS national leaders one question:
Since Russia is acting like the big man on campus, what do these other countries reckon will happen when Putin declares the entire world to be his privately owned
WHITE ETHNOSTATE?
After all, South Africa is no longer exclusively for white people, Brazil is very diverse, India definitely isn't white and neither is "Jyna".
Do any of them actually think Russia will just step aside simply because these other countries are more populous and wealthier than his?
BRICS is a joke, unless you're a member of the coke cartels.

The big man on campus is China.

And that "joke" has been going on for decades:

The rise of the global middle class

Hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty but can the middle class continue to grow?

www.bbc.com

 

[ralfy]

Are people still trying to make BRICS a thing, like it's 2010? These five countries don't even have anything in common with one another, aside from being relatively big developing countries (and South Africa isn't even that big). India is the only one of the five that has a bright future.

It's BRICS plus emerging markets, which ironically includes Ukraine:

Emerging market - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The ones who are "still trying" to make it "a thing" are mostly multinational banks, including those in Wall Street. Maybe they're all wrong and you're right?

 

[ralfy]

Won't be an issue for about 30 years....then maybe

FWIW, they started saying that during the early 2000s, so looks like they're on track.

 

[ralfy]

BRICS is just China's way of Impearlism through lay-a-way. Ask Central Africa how that's going.

It turns out that the ones who create a debt trap are the IMF-WB, via structural adjustment.

In short, the main reason why the U.S. has remained in power for so long was because it made sure that most remained weak, and thus dependent on the dollar. That, in turn, allowed it to borrow and spend heavily across the decades.

That scheme is now falling apart.

 

[ralfy]

Who wants to align themselves with authoritarian strongman governments that blatantly serve the elite?

Probably the same countries that once aligned themselves with Washington which served Wall Street.

 

[ralfy]

Yes, it's still ours.

China and Russia become less relevant every day.

Still ours. That says it all.

 

[ralfy]

China is formidable at manufacturing. Their economic outlook is nothing short of a nightmare. They are almost entirely export-driven and will never have a domestic consumer economy because they are going to run out of any sizable cohort of young people due to the One Child Policy ruining their demographics. And because they are export driven, they have to export to the number one consumer on Earth to have a hope of maintaining their economy, i.e. the United States. And they are taking every opportunity to stab us in the eye.



The answer would be an ad hominem tu quoque, something along the lines of "Who is the United States to question our trading partners when it is joined to the hip of Saudi Arabia"?



I'm not sure if I would care much for it if I did run a coke cartel. There must be a reason drug cartels trade in stacks of U.S. dollar bills and not in Chinese Yuan or Brazilian Reals.

They switched to mostly assembly more than a decade ago because more of their people want higher-paying jobs in the service industry. That's why Thailand took over and became the "Detroit of Asia" a few years ago:

"The Detroit of Asia": How Thailand became an auto industry hub

Harley-Davidson announced in March that it was moving some manufacture operations to Thailand. But -- why Thailand? The Southeast Asian nation has actually been a stronghold for automotive manufacture for decades.

money.cnn.com

Eventually, Thailand will switch to higher-tech manufacturing, and what they did will be outsourced to VIP:

The VIPs - Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines

<p><strong>The VIPs of Southeast Asia: Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines. What’s next for renewable power?</strong></p>

green-giraffe.eu

The Philippines, long a chamcha of the U.S., is now starting to play the game of realpolitik like Vietnam, where the U.S. is eager to sell arms but is an ally of the U.S., and one EIU report argues that it's eventually going to take over from the rest because of young population, together with several African countries.

Given that, the blinkered neoliberals of this board have to realize that they are simpletons on this matter, still imagining that China will replace the U.S. In reality, a multipolar world will emerge with multiple economies involved.

 

[Felis Leo]

That's why ignorance is bliss.

I should be losing sleep over this? Do tell.

 

[ralfy]

Oh I am not pretending to any kind of American exceptionalism, quite the contrary in fact.
I'm saying that BRICS is a shaky marriage of convenience and that BRICS needs the USA as much as the USA needs a stable BRICS.
But if Russia continues to practice its intended reconstruction of the Iron Curtain ver. 2.0, it's going to make life a bigger nightmare for the "RICS" part of BRICS.
And the alliance will crumble.

BRICS is not so much a marriage of convenience but an arrangement that allows for all sorts of bilateral and multilateral agreements. In contrast is the Iron Curtain of the U.S. dollar used as a reserve currency and as a petrodollar.

That's why neocons have to continue arguing that the alliance will crumble, in order to maintain the narrative of U.S. exceptionalism: that is, the U.S. is the singular beacon of light in a world of darkness.

 

[vegas giants]

FWIW, they started saying that during the early 2000s, so looks like they're on track.

Maybe by 2050

 

[ralfy]

And yet one of Russia's excuses for invading Ukraine was that "ethnic Russians" live there and they deserve to be a part of Russia. So Russia sent in their military to forcibly wrest control of land away from Ukraine in order to expand their borders around these "ethnic Russians."

Ukraine was manipulated together with the others starting with Clinton:

Bill Clinton’s Role in the Crisis Over Ukraine

The militarization of American foreign policy has evolved over the past thirty years. Ironically, this took place in the wake of the dissolution of the

www.counterpunch.org

to antagonize Russia, which posed no threat to the West. The U.S. also did similar in Asia by encircling China:



and they did that in order to maintain a unipolar world where everyone needed to use the other. Otherwise, their heavy borrowing and spending scheme which started during the early 1980s would end:

Krugman and the Pied Pipers of Debt

Investors are celebrating an incipient “recovery,” but the interventions that were responsible for it are sowing the seeds of a more violent contraction...

seekingalpha.com

That's why neocons and their fellow neoliberal chicken hawks are now screaming bloody murder. As more countries move away from the U.S. orbit of influence, then the chances of voodoo economics continuing decrease.

 

[ralfy]

Whataboutism detected.
I have a better idea, let's make a thread devoted exclusively to how Russia treats its minorities, should be interesting.
Whataboutism however, is an indication that you feel defensive, and it is duly noted.

Whataboutism is a blinkered neocon response: Russia invaded and must be stopped. End of story.

But what about what the U.S. is doing in Syria, and what it did to many countries?

Neocon: what about it?

 

[ralfy]

Maybe it is Chinese Imperialism vs French Imperialism. Eitherway the upside is the exploited have the opportunity to shop around for least despicable imperialists

Reminds me of Biden:

Biden’s Comments About Putin Were an Unforced Error

The words of every world leader matter right now, and none more than those of the president of the United States.

www.theatlantic.com

Gives no meaning to the idea of "imperialism."

FWIW, your last point is right, and is part of realpolitik. Interestingly enough, and since France was mentioned, I'm reminded of this article:

Rodrigo Duterte Plays U.S. and China Off Each Other, in Echo of Cold War (Published 2016)

The Philippine president’s strategy of balancing between the powers by threatening to change loyalties was used successfully by leaders throughout the era.

www.nytimes.com

 

[noonereal]

This will go the way of Putin's Eurasian Economic Union.

Might, might not. We don't hold the economic clot we had.

 

[ralfy]

I should be losing sleep over this? Do tell.

The U.S. needs the global economy to continue using the dollar for trade, or else its borrowing and spending economy will fall apart:

A new world order? BRICS nations offer alternative to West

Nice try but I've BEEN to your country, comrade. And I know how those other ethnic groups are treated. Yeah, tell me, a non-Russian, how other ethnic groups are treated in Russia)) Wait, maybe you're talking about ethnic republics with their republican national languages, where the entire...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Peacenik]

Probably the same countries that once aligned themselves with Washington which served Wall Street.

There are very few countries supporting Russia's war of aggression in Ukraine.