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9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927:2293]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Talking rationally and logically to a conpiracy theorist is like Jerking off without coming.




It's pointless.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

(the fact that the tower didn't fall at near-free-fall speeds)

Who says the towers didn't fall at NEAR free fall speeds, you? NIST calculated the collapse times to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. That is amazing for 1/4 mile tall towers, and nothing about them was characteristic of a collapse caused by fire. NIST describes the collapses as "near free fall speed." At what point does a collapse cease to be "near free fall speed" in your opinion? Your determination that the towers didn't fall at near free fall speed is totally arbitrary and nothing but desperation obfuscation.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Who says the towers didn't fall at NEAR free fall speeds, you?

There are videos of the towers collapsing, which I have already posted. You can watch them and time it. It's very simple.

Do you ever read my posts? Seriously, you keep bringing up **** that I already addressed a long time ago.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Who says the towers didn't fall at NEAR free fall speeds, you? NIST calculated the collapse times to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. That is amazing for 1/4 mile tall towers, and nothing about them was characteristic of a collapse caused by fire. NIST describes the collapses as "near free fall speed." At what point does a collapse cease to be "near free fall speed" in your opinion? Your determination that the towers didn't fall at near free fall speed is totally arbitrary and nothing but desperation obfuscation.

There are videos of the towers collapsing, which I have already posted. You can watch them and time it. It's very simple.
Do you ever read my posts? Seriously, you keep bringing up **** that I already addressed a long time ago.

More obfuscation...:roll:
 
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re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Unnecessary. Like I said before, conspiracy theorists aren't able to focus one one single point (the fact that the tower didn't fall at near-free-fall speeds) and must bring other, circumstantial, claims into the conversation into maintain their delusion. This is exactly what you are doing. Please stay on topic.

Ok point taken, I posten on the wrong thread, I dont the speed at which the towers fell is anything close to the most convincing argument against the offical conspiracy story. A misleading thread so I wont post on here agian.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

More obfuscation...

"Who says the towers didn't fall at NEAR free fall speeds, you? NIST calculated the collapse times to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. That is amazing for 1/4 mile tall towers, and nothing about them was characteristic of a collapse caused by fire. NIST describes the collapses as "near free fall speed." At what point does a collapse cease to be "near free fall speed" in your opinion? Your determination that the towers didn't fall at near free fall speed is totally arbitrary and nothing but desperation obfuscation."

More hypocrisy and dodging the real questions...
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Do you ever read my posts? Seriously, you keep bringing up **** that I already addressed a long time ago.

I can tell you that she doesn't read them from experience.
I gave up on her a long time ago... it is a cyclical blathering.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

There was no thermite. If you want to discuss that bring that up in the general 9/11 thread.

Thermate contains some sulphur, unlike thermite. It's more effective
at burning through steel. The fact that it takes time to burn through
the steel beams is relevant to the issue of free fall speed that you
introduced.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Who says the towers didn't fall at NEAR free fall speeds, you? NIST calculated the collapse times to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. That is amazing for 1/4 mile tall towers, and nothing about them was characteristic of a collapse caused by fire. NIST describes the collapses as "near free fall speed." At what point does a collapse cease to be "near free fall speed" in your opinion? Your determination that the towers didn't fall at near free fall speed is totally arbitrary and nothing but desperation obfuscation.

That is what my group has been trying to demonstrate to the media, however they will not give us the time of day. It's obvious. We have raised $5,000 the past two years in our campaign to rebuild the towers and hire terrorists to crash into them again to prove our hypothesis that this didn't resemble buildings collapsing due to fire damage from jets crashing into them.

If you look closely at the construction of the towers back in the 60's why were known CIA operatives at the construction site? And why has all of the contruction film gone missing after 2002, all archives have mysteriously disappeared?
 
Kevin Ryan with Underwriters Laboratories!!!!!!!!!!!

Company that certifies the steel used in the construction of the World Trade Center Towers..."Underwriters Laboratories"(U.L.) represented by Kevin Ryan sent an official letter to Frank Gayle of the "National Institute of Standards and Technology"(NIST) clearly states that even if the steel was bare in the buildings with no fireproofing it should not have been affected and the TOWERS SHOULD HAVE STOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He flat out told Frank Gayle that the NIFT report was wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

This new evidence for me is quite compelling

Here is a link to the website:

http://www.populistamerica.com/wtc_..._have_easily_withstood_jet_fuel_temperatures_

simply type in Kevin Ryan in upper right site search if this link won't go to exact page.
 
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re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

That was the fastest 11 sec. I ever saw.:doh
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

[NOTE: Because truthers and conspiracy theorists in general are unable to focus on one specific topic due to the fact that they are not able to substantiate their claims while doing so, I have decided to divide a few of the most important arguments regarding the conspiracy theory into their own threads, as to maintain focus on those particular topics. This way, I hope to get truthers to focus on one argument at a time and maybe actually extract some real discussion out of them instead of a complete avoidance of all of my rebuttals. Please don't take these threads as spamming, as it is necessary to address these issues and the conspiracy theory as a whole]

Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds?

Actual collapse times extracted from timing of the collapse in the videos at the end of this post.

WTC1 (North Tower)
Height = 417m (1,368 ft) Source
Acceleration Due to Gravity: 9.81 m/s/s

Free Fall Speed:
h=0.5gt^2
t=(2h/g)^0.5
t=(2*417/9.81)^0.5
t = 9.22 seconds

Actual Time of Collapse:
t = about 22.02 seconds

WTC2 (South Tower)
Height = 415m (1,362 ft) Source
Acceleration Due to Gravity: 9.81 m/s/s

Free Fall Speed:
h=0.5gt^2
t=(2h/g)^0.5
t=(2*415/9.81)^0.5
t = 9.20 seconds

Actual Time of Collapse:
t = about 15.28 seconds

WTC7
Height = 186m (610 ft) Source
Acceleration Due to Gravity: 9.81 m/s/s

Free Fall Speed:
h=0.5gt^2
t=(2h/g)^0.5
t=(2*186/9.81)^0.5
t = 6.16 seconds

Actual Time of Collapse:
t = about 25 seconds

CONCLUSION:
The buildings obviously did not fall at near-free-fall speeds, and their actual collapse times were significantly longer.

YouTube - WTC 7 Collapse

YouTube - 9/11 Debunked: World Trade Center - No Free-Fall Speed

What started me finally thinking there is a conspiracy, is the free falling speed and the fact they showed pictures and video of the support beams that were cut at an angle. Just like they do when they set a building up to be demolished. Then there are the people who designed the building that said they designed the buildings to withstand a plane crash. Then, of course, there is the question how building 7 free form crashed when no plane had struck it. I liked the 600 lb titanium and steel jet engines that disappeared from the Pentagon and then we were told that they just "vaporized", yet there are pictures and videos of people carrying off parts of the wreckage. Then, of course, there was that security drill of the accident involving a plane, the pentagon and nearly the exact same type of attack...

But then that would lead to questioning why it was Cheney controlled all the airlines (what is that called? I forget) the day of the 911 attack, and it took over 80 minutes for the air force to get planes into the air after the first plane was reported being hijacked when normally if there is a problem, it takes less than 10?

Why is it again we never got Bin Laden and why is it again Bush said he wasn't really concerned about it and why was it again we are in Iraq? Why in Afghanistan after giving OBL a two month head start when he probably is in Pakistan? Why did we not take OBL when he stayed in an AMERICAN hospital in Dubai? Why why why?

Yeah, no conspiracy here. Not our government. Not Bush. Not Cheney. Oh, by the way -- anyone want to buy this bridge I have for sale in Alaska?
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Again.

And.

As for planes not hitting the Pentagon, (in spite of the eye witness accounts of commuters that morning), don't you think it just a little odd that a conspiracy would involve a non-existent plane crash in a very, very public place?
 
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re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Again.

And.

As for planes not hitting the Pentagon, (in spite of the eye witness accounts of commuters that morning), don't you think it just a little odd that a conspiracy would involve a non-existent plane crash in a very, very public place?

I think it's odd that there are videos (like 20 I think?) of this happening, as well as the eye witnesses, but the government secured all the videos and have not released any information about it.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

I think it's odd that there are videos (like 20 I think?) of this happening, as well as the eye witnesses, but the government secured all the videos and have not released any information about it.
The Pentagon? Possibly because the crash opened a big honkin' hole into what is probably the most top secret building in Earth?

Also, there is the part about the videos, if any were very close, would no doubt contain footage of people burning to death in flaming kerosene. Being a burn survivor, oddly from burning kero, I think I can assure you that you wouldn't like the images if you did see them.
 
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re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

The Pentagon? Possibly because the crash opened a big honkin' hole into what is probably the most top secret building in Earth?

Also, there is the part about the videos, if any were very close, would no doubt contain footage of people burning to death in flaming kerosene. Being a burn survivor, oddly from burning kero, I think I can assure you that you wouldn't like the images if you did see them.

Except there was not a single drop of blood or body part ever found.

Let's examine the "oddly burning from kero(sene)" remark - Kerosene burns hot enough to vaporize a plane made of titanium and steel? You say the plane disappeared at the Pentagon and rather inject that it did so because it is the most top secret building 'in' Earth -- well okay I disagree with it being the most top secret, but let's say you're right. The plane disappeared because the Pentagon is top secret...

What about the planes at The World Trade Center? It was all turned to dust. How? How could that happen? Not a chair, nor desk, nor a telephone was found save a piece of telephone face plate about 3 inches long.

There had to be some type of extra heat source of some kind. I can see it crashing, burning, and then collapsing to the ground...
There would be pieces!

If all the terrorists who hijacked the plane died, how come six of them are still alive? How come one of the alleged terrorists on the FBI list says he has no idea what they're talking about, knows nothing about any of this stuff, does not have anything to do with Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, etc etc etc and is STILL ALIVE, yet the FBI list has never been updated? How come he has not been in custody if he's really one of the terrorists on the list?

There are plenty more questions I have I would like answered after you get done with these. :lol:
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Except there was not a single drop of blood or body part ever found.

Let's examine the "oddly burning from kero(sene)" remark - Kerosene burns hot enough to vaporize a plane made of titanium and steel? You say the plane disappeared at the Pentagon and rather inject that it did so because it is the most top secret building 'in' Earth -- well okay I disagree with it being the most top secret, but let's say you're right. The plane disappeared because the Pentagon is top secret...

What about the planes at The World Trade Center? It was all turned to dust. How? How could that happen? Not a chair, nor desk, nor a telephone was found save a piece of telephone face plate about 3 inches long.

There had to be some type of extra heat source of some kind. I can see it crashing, burning, and then collapsing to the ground...
There would be pieces!

If all the terrorists who hijacked the plane died, how come six of them are still alive? How come one of the alleged terrorists on the FBI list says he has no idea what they're talking about, knows nothing about any of this stuff, does not have anything to do with Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, etc etc etc and is STILL ALIVE, yet the FBI list has never been updated? How come he has not been in custody if he's really one of the terrorists on the list?

There are plenty more questions I have I would like answered after you get done with these. :lol:

I'll tell you what, I'll contemplate your little argument when you can give me a plausible explanation as to what happened to all of the civilians on those planes.

You set up the theory, so why don't you deal with the most captain obvious problem with your theory. Where are all of the passengers? Do you really believe that the civilians were all just government moles, that are quite happy to traumatize their families, or are the 9/11 victims' families in on it too?

Oh dear, conspiracy theory is breaking apart. Noooooooooooooooo!

After that, we'll deal with the change in load bearing strength of steal in relation to heat, then we'll deal with strut design floors, then we'll deal with structural failure, then we'll deal with the plausibility of a government cover up...........

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?
 
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re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

That is what my group has been trying to demonstrate to the media, however they will not give us the time of day. It's obvious. We have raised $5,000 the past two years in our campaign to rebuild the towers and hire terrorists to crash into them again to prove our hypothesis that this didn't resemble buildings collapsing due to fire damage from jets crashing into them.

Perhaps the Insurance Company that paid the claim will fund you guys to get some of their money back!;)


There may have come a time when a country has sacrificed a pawn to gain another strategic square on the worlds chess board.:cool:
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

There is something that I believe you are missing here. Recently on Nat Geo they did a segment on building demolition. It is not just a simple matter of planting a few charges. It is very intense precise work and it takes more than just a couple of days to plant the necessary charges in exactly the right locations to achieve the desired result

One of the examples they showed was how a demolition team demolished three old smoke stacks. I forget the exact height of these stacks but they were impressive. These stacks were very close to residential areas. Much mathematical calculation is involved. These stacks had to fall in a certain numerical sequence and in a certain direction. It took days and hundreds of pounds of explosives plus massive amounts of drilling holes for the charges.

In a nut shell, Demolition is a very complicated process even for experts who do it for living. Plus you would have to have teams of people willing to knowingly participate in 1st degree murder of innocent fellow country men.

Moe

Would it be possible with todays tech to make a bunch of pre-rigged thermite devises in a little magnetic container set to "trip" to the jarring or jolting action from let's say....a commercial airliner?


"There may have come a time when a country has sacrificed a pawn to gain another strategic square on the worlds chessboard"....Quote by Riggs
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Would it be possible with todays tech to make a bunch of pre-rigged thermite devises in a little magnetic container set to "trip" to the jarring or jolting action from let's say....a commercial airliner?


"There may have come a time when a country has sacrificed a pawn to gain another strategic square on the worlds chessboard"....Quote by Riggs

If the CIA or some other secret government org could bypass the FAA and the airlines own inspectors and then keep it quiet. :roll:
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

If the CIA or some other secret government org could bypass the FAA and the airlines own inspectors and then keep it quiet. :roll:

What would this have to do with attatching magnets to a beam in a building?:doh:doh
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

What started me finally thinking there is a conspiracy, is the free falling speed

Already debunked in the post you just quoted.

and the fact they showed pictures and video of the support beams that were cut at an angle.

This was due to welders cutting the beams at an angle to fall a certain way during cleanup.

cut.jpg


Then there are the people who designed the building that said they designed the buildings to withstand a plane crash.

The building was designed to withstand such an impact. In other words, it was designed to withstand the force imparted upon it by the impact of an airplane. That is what engineers mean when they say this.

Then, of course, there is the question how building 7 free form crashed when no plane had struck it.

Already addressed in my other thread. Perhaps you could respond to it, because no other truther really has.

Why is it again we never got Bin Laden and why is it again Bush said he wasn't really concerned about it and why was it again we are in Iraq? Why in Afghanistan after giving OBL a two month head start when he probably is in Pakistan? Why did we not take OBL when he stayed in an AMERICAN hospital in Dubai? Why why why?

Because they weren't concerned about Bin Laden. He was a means to an end, and was exploited in the same way that 9/11 was. But to claim that this implies some type of government conspiracy is tantamount to denying the holocaust happened because it is exploited by many zionists.

What about the planes at The World Trade Center? It was all turned to dust. How? How could that happen?

The buildings collapsed. The buildings collapsed. THE BUILDINGS ****ING COLLAPSED.

Why can't truthers understand that when buildings collapse, stuff breaks?:doh
 
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re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Why does nobody touch the Building#7 issue in the new thread which I find quite compelling?:cool:
 
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re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Khayembii Communique;1057865319" said:
What started me finally thinking there is a conspiracy, is the free falling speed"
Already debunked in the post you just quoted.
Says you. I think it has not been debunked yet.


Khayembii Communique;1057865319" said:
This was due to welders cutting the beams at an angle to fall a certain way during cleanup.
Now why would they have to cut the beams at an angle to fall a certain way if the building had already collapsed?




Khayembii Communique;1057865319" said:
The building was designed to withstand such an impact. In other words, it was designed to withstand the force imparted upon it by the impact of an airplane. That is what engineers mean when they say this.
But it didn't withstand such an impact. Or... were there other forces at work here? Hmm...

Khayembii Communique;1057865319" said:
Already addressed in my other thread. Perhaps you could respond to it, because no other truther really has.
I'm not going thread hunting.


Khayembii Communique;1057865319" said:
Because they weren't concerned about Bin Laden. He was a means to an end, and was exploited in the same way that 9/11 was. But to claim that this implies some type of government conspiracy is tantamount to denying the holocaust happened because it is exploited by many zionists.
Then by saying this, the war on terror is a lie? Weren't they after the lead terrorist? The guy responsible for 911? I agree that the Iraq war is a lie.


Khayembii Communique;1057865319" said:
The buildings collapsed. The buildings collapsed. THE BUILDINGS ****ING COLLAPSED.

Why can't truthers understand that when buildings collapse, stuff breaks?:doh
Breaks into dust? How is that possible? Why can't people understand physics?
 
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