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9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927:2293]

Khayembii Communique

Khayembii Communique

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[NOTE: Because truthers and conspiracy theorists in general are unable to focus on one specific topic due to the fact that they are not able to substantiate their claims while doing so, I have decided to divide a few of the most important arguments regarding the conspiracy theory into their own threads, as to maintain focus on those particular topics. This way, I hope to get truthers to focus on one argument at a time and maybe actually extract some real discussion out of them instead of a complete avoidance of all of my rebuttals. Please don't take these threads as spamming, as it is necessary to address these issues and the conspiracy theory as a whole]

Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds?

Actual collapse times extracted from timing of the collapse in the videos at the end of this post.

WTC1 (North Tower)
Height = 417m (1,368 ft) Source
Acceleration Due to Gravity: 9.81 m/s/s

Free Fall Speed:
h=0.5gt^2
t=(2h/g)^0.5
t=(2*417/9.81)^0.5
t = 9.22 seconds

Actual Time of Collapse:
t = about 22.02 seconds

WTC2 (South Tower)
Height = 415m (1,362 ft) Source
Acceleration Due to Gravity: 9.81 m/s/s

Free Fall Speed:
h=0.5gt^2
t=(2h/g)^0.5
t=(2*415/9.81)^0.5
t = 9.20 seconds

Actual Time of Collapse:
t = about 15.28 seconds

WTC7
Height = 186m (610 ft) Source
Acceleration Due to Gravity: 9.81 m/s/s

Free Fall Speed:
h=0.5gt^2
t=(2h/g)^0.5
t=(2*186/9.81)^0.5
t = 6.16 seconds

Actual Time of Collapse:
t = about 25 seconds

CONCLUSION:
The buildings obviously did not fall at near-free-fall speeds, and their actual collapse times were significantly longer.

YouTube - WTC 7 Collapse

YouTube - 9/11 Debunked: World Trade Center - No Free-Fall Speed
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Air and structural resistance as the cavities and structures were collapsed. That simple. Move on.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

I watched the movie loose change. Anybody else see that? I never researched it out to see how accurate they really were or if even they were intentionally trying to mislead the public.

This was about the same time their head guy was arrested for desertion from the military. I do not even remember his name right now but I read the circumstances of his desertion and things did seem a little wierd.

It just seems to difficult to me that such a plot could have been hatched by the government and kept secret. Far to many people would have to be involved and as corrupt as our government can be there really are not to many who would be willing to be complicit to murder.

Moe
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Of course not. It takes time for the thermate to melt through
the steel beams at the pre-programmed points.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Great! Another 9/11 conspiracy wingnut theory. Like oftencold posted earlier...move on. Stop beating the dead horse already. :roll:
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Of course not. It takes time for the thermate to melt through
the steel beams at the pre-programmed points.
Click to expand...

There was no thermite. If you want to discuss that bring that up in the general 9/11 thread.

Great! Another 9/11 conspiracy wingnut theory. Like oftencold posted earlier...move on. Stop beating the dead horse already.
Click to expand...

1. You didn't even read the thread. This is a refutation of the "conspiracy wingnut theory".
2. No. This is fun.
3. Look what forum it is in.
4. Go away.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

lawshume said:
Of course not. It takes time for the thermate to melt through
the steel beams at the pre-programmed points.
Click to expand...

There is something that I believe you are missing here. Recently on Nat Geo they did a segment on building demolition. It is not just a simple matter of planting a few charges. It is very intense precise work and it takes more than just a couple of days to plant the necessary charges in exactly the right locations to achieve the desired result

One of the examples they showed was how a demolition team demolished three old smoke stacks. I forget the exact height of these stacks but they were impressive. These stacks were very close to residential areas. Much mathematical calculation is involved. These stacks had to fall in a certain numerical sequence and in a certain direction. It took days and hundreds of pounds of explosives plus massive amounts of drilling holes for the charges.

In a nut shell, Demolition is a very complicated process even for experts who do it for living. Plus you would have to have teams of people willing to knowingly participate in 1st degree murder of innocent fellow country men.

Moe
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

moe said:
<snip> Plus you would have to have teams of people willing to knowingly participate in 1st degree murder of innocent fellow country men.
Click to expand...
This last comment jumps out at me. It wouldn't take more than one conversation to have set this conspiracy into action; and the actually doers probably never knew they were working for Cheney/Rumsfield/Bush. Behold and figure it out yourself.

b-President-George-Bus-403d88b72637.jpeg

bush_abdullah.jpg

293457625_10b568f7c7.jpg


Now that being said. This free fall theory is complete foolishness. Define freefall?!? Freefall in my thought processes doesn't include the kinds of structural reinforcements that buildings like the towers must've had.

This aspect being entirely bogus, nonetheless, I do believe there was a conspiracy to fly planes into the towers. I don't believe that the towers were pre-set with explosives. All Bush had to do was ask his Saudi lovers to send the word down the line in their countries. Only ones who would know would be top Saudis and the Bush neocons.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

lawshume said:
Of course not. It takes time for the thermate to melt through
the steel beams at the pre-programmed points.
Click to expand...
Are you sure is wasn't secret military laser beams, or perhaps a black magic spell?

There must also be a connection to Roswell and crop circles to make any decent conspiracy theory plausible.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

I thought it was

nuclear weapons...
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Summerwind said:
This last comment jumps out at me. It wouldn't take more than one conversation to have set this conspiracy into action; and the actually doers probably never knew they were working for Cheney/Rumsfield/Bush. . . .I do believe there was a conspiracy to fly planes into the towers. I don't believe that the towers were pre-set with explosives. All Bush had to do was ask his Saudi lovers to send the word down the line in their countries. Only ones who would know would be top Saudis and the Bush neocons.
Click to expand...
Is is amazing to me that you can hold in your mind the idea of a homicidal madman at the highest levels of the most powerful government in Earth, in History, who could arrange the murder of 3000 of his own, arguably most productive citizens, yest at the same time he can't:
  1. control the press
  2. suppress conspiracy theory nuts
  3. control the publication of unfavorable polls
  4. rig the recent election
  5. steal foreign oil in a country that we occupy
  6. silence powerless critics.
The Conspiracy Crowd has invented "plush-toy evil," because real evil is too painful to consider.

As I said, I am amazed.
 
Last edited:
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Khayembii Communique said:
Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds?
Click to expand...

This is a blatant straw man argument. The scholars of the truth movement do not even claim the buildings fell at free fall speed. Their opinion papers usually state "near free fall" or "virtually free fall" speed. What they mean is, the buildings collapsed quickly, completely, and in a smooth fluid motion that is totally uncharacteristic of collapse by fire.

Why the quibbling over free fall vs. near free fall unless you believe known controlled demolitions always produce free fall speed collapses? They don't.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

moe said:
There is something that I believe you are missing here. Recently on Nat Geo they did a segment on building demolition. It is not just a simple matter of planting a few charges. It is very intense precise work and it takes more than just a couple of days to plant the necessary charges in exactly the right locations to achieve the desired result

One of the examples they showed was how a demolition team demolished three old smoke stacks. I forget the exact height of these stacks but they were impressive. These stacks were very close to residential areas. Much mathematical calculation is involved. These stacks had to fall in a certain numerical sequence and in a certain direction. It took days and hundreds of pounds of explosives plus massive amounts of drilling holes for the charges.

In a nut shell, Demolition is a very complicated process even for experts who do it for living.
Click to expand...

That's precisely why a straight down, symmetrical and total collapse can not be achieved by random fire damage.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique
Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds?
Click to expand...

This is a GREAT question and one completely unhindered by an alterior motive.
Well presented.

Answer is: No, they did NOT.
 
Last edited:
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Bodhisattva said:
This is a GREAT question and one completely unhindered by an alterior motive.
Well presented.

Answer is: No, they did NOT.
Click to expand...

I agree, they did not. Truth movement scholars don't even make that claim.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Chanda said:
I agree, they did not. Truth movement scholars don't even make that claim.
Click to expand...


Good, though I am not sure why you felt the need to attack/question a simple question.
The OP was not a Strawman... it was and is just a question. ;)

I am sad... we have reached an impass Chanda.
We can't/won't debate this issue due to irreconcilable differences. :(
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

This is a blatant straw man argument. The scholars of the truth movement do not even claim the buildings fell at free fall speed. Their opinion papers usually state "near free fall" or "virtually free fall" speed. What they mean is, the buildings collapsed quickly, completely, and in a smooth fluid motion that is totally uncharacteristic of collapse by fire.

Why the quibbling over free fall vs. near free fall unless you believe known controlled demolitions always produce free fall speed collapses? They don't.
Click to expand...

That should read "fall at near-free-fall speeds". If you actually read the thread, I proved that they didn't come even close to falling at near-free-fall speeds. Perhaps you should read the thread before trying to be a smartass.:lol:
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Fact of the matter is that there isnt any picture of any 757 wreckage outside the pentagon, clear videos were confiscated and one ambigious one released. Show me the plane that hit the pentagon and where its wings went ill revise my views.

To anyone who dosn't belive that the US government is capable of somthing like this please read teh declassified Northwoods documents which made it to the presisdents table.

Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Chanda said:
That's precisely why a straight down, symmetrical and total collapse can not be achieved by random fire damage.
Click to expand...

Just for the sake of argument, Lets say this was some conspiracy. Why would it even be necessary to totally destroy the towers?

The attack it self was an act of war and enough to justify armed response with public support.

Moe
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Chanda said:
That's precisely why a straight down, symmetrical and total collapse can not be achieved by random fire damage.
Click to expand...
You can cite a number of case studies of fuel laden jets crashing into super-tall skyscrapers and the way that they collapse no doubt.

I look forward to the case studies you will present, they should make fascinating reading.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

moe said:
Just for the sake of argument, Lets say this was some conspiracy. Why would it even be necessary to totally destroy the towers?

The attack it self was an act of war and enough to justify armed response with public support.

Moe
Click to expand...

Armed response with public support was not the only goal of the administation, the destruction of the towers and elimination of their presence would not only dramatically increase the death toll but serve as a perminent reminder to citiznes of teh USA that would maintain support for a new level of imperial mobilization. The war on terror remember "will not end in our lifetime".

Undestroyed towers would have signalled a level of defiance by America, in some senses a failed attack, the 'terrorists' had to be seen as extremely powerful.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Fact of the matter is that there isnt any picture of any 757 wreckage outside the pentagon, clear videos were confiscated and one ambigious one released. Show me the plane that hit the pentagon and where its wings went ill revise my views.
Click to expand...

Unnecessary. Like I said before, conspiracy theorists aren't able to focus one one single point (the fact that the tower didn't fall at near-free-fall speeds) and must bring other, circumstantial, claims into the conversation into maintain their delusion. This is exactly what you are doing. Please stay on topic.
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Oftencold said:
You can cite a number of case studies of fuel laden jets crashing into super-tall skyscrapers and the way that they collapse no doubt.

I look forward to the case studies you will present, they should make fascinating reading.
Click to expand...

Did the towers collapse when they were struck by planes? Was WTC 7 hit by a plane?
 
re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Did the towers collapse when they were struck by planes? Was WTC 7 hit by a plane?
Click to expand...

This was already addressed. You need to either address the responses to this or stop saying it.
 
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