9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927:2293]

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

I'll tell you what, I'll contemplate your little argument when you can give me a plausible explanation as to what happened to all of the civilians on those planes.

Umm... I believe a part of the argument is what happened to those civilians? What did happen? Where did they go? If all the terrorists died on the plane, why are six of them still alive?

You set up the theory, so why don't you deal with the most captain obvious problem with your theory. Where are all of the passengers? Do you really believe that the civilians were all just government moles, that are quite happy to traumatize their families, or are the 9/11 victims' families in on it too?

Do not know. But thanks for restating the same question being asked once again.

Oh dear, conspiracy theory is breaking apart. Noooooooooooooooo!

Not quite. I would love it if you could break it apart. I would hate to think our government once again killed US citizens to get us into a war for profit and oil like they have in the Vietnam war, WWI, WWII and other situations.

After that, we'll deal with the change in load bearing strength of steal in relation to heat, then we'll deal with strut design floors, then we'll deal with structural failure, then we'll deal with the plausibility of a government cover up...........

Okay. Ready! Go!

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?

Why, yes. Yes I have. Have you ever heard of these quote?
"Great liars are also great magicians." - Adolf Hitler
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think" - Adolf Hitler
"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler

And perhaps the two best that fit this situation :

"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed." - Adolf Hitler
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." - Adolf Hitler

Oh and I know who Godwin is and his law.

 

[Bodi]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Umm... I believe a part of the argument is what happened to those civilians? What did happen? Where did they go?

They died in the plane crash... :roll:

If all the terrorists died on the plane, why are six of them still alive?

The FBI made a mistake about some terror suspects?
Do you think that this mistake PROVES a conspiracy? :doh

Do not know. But thanks for restating the same question being asked once again.

Coming from one that answers questions with questions! :rofl

Not quite. I would love it if you could break it apart. I would hate to think our government once again killed US citizens to get us into a war for profit and oil like they have in the Vietnam war, WWI, WWII and other situations.

The USA went into Vietnam, WWI and WWII for "Profit"?
I am sure that you have lots of "Proof" to back this statement up then? :lol:

Also, it is up to you, the Conspiracy Nut to prove your theory, to disporve the accepted history...
It is not for us to disprove your conspiracy theory in order to prove that the accepted history is accurate.

Okay. Ready! Go!

Ready go? Well, what do you think about these things?

"In November 2001, US forces recovered a videotape from a destroyed house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan which showed Osama bin Laden talking to Khaled al-Harbi. In the tape, bin Laden seems to admit planning the attacks. Translations from the tape include the following lines:

...we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all...We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day. We had finished our work that day and had the radio on...Muhammad (Atta) from the Egyptian family (meaning the al-Qaeda Egyptian group), was in charge of the group...The brothers, who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they have a martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didn't know anything about the operation, not even one letter. But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape_released_by_the_US_government



UBL: We were at (...inaudible...) when the event took place. We had notification since
the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day. We had finished our
work that day and had the radio on. It was 5:30 p.m. our time. I was sitting with Dr.
Ahmad Abu-al-((Khair)). Immediately, we heard the news that a plane had hit the World
Trade Center. We turned the radio station to the news from Washington. The news
continued and no mention of the attack until the end. At the end of the newscast, they
reported that a plane just hit the World Trade Center.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2001/d20011213ubl.pdf



The WTC towers were indeed designed to withstand the impact of a large commercial aircraft. They were not, however, designed to withstand the prolonged effect of fire resulting from a bomb in the guise of a fully fueled aircraft.

Some 60 tons or more of jet fuel could have easily caused sustained high temperatures of 1,500 F and higher. Under these conditions, structural steel looses rigidity and strength. The resulting failure of the 2-3 floor system at the site of impact sent the 30 to 25 floors above free-falling onto the 80 to 85 floor structure below. The enormous energy released by this collapse was too large to be absorbed by the structure below. That impact may have ultimately caused the explosive buckling, floor after floor, of the WTC towers. Similar to a car crash in a wall, the towers crashed into the ground with an almost free-fall velocity.

How safe are our skyscrapers?: The World Trade Center collapse - MIT News Office


Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?—Simple Analysis1
The NIST report analyzes the failure mechanism in detail. An early analysis explains that the kinetic energy of the upper portion of the building falling onto the story below exceeded by an order of magnitude the amount of energy that the lower story could absorb, crushing it and adding to the kinetic energy. This scenario repeated with each successive story, crushing the entire tower at near free-fall speed.

http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf



The impacts also dislodged some of the fireproofing from the steel, increasing its exposure to the heat of the fires. In the 102 minutes before the collapse of 1 WTC, the fires reached temperatures that, although well below the melting point, were high enough to weaken the core columns so that they underwent plastic deformation and creep from the weight of higher floors. The NIST report provides a useful model of the situation.

“ At this point, the core of WTC 1 could be imagined to be in three sections. There was a bottom section below the impact floors that could be thought of as a strong, rigid box, structurally undamaged and at almost normal temperature. There was a top section above the impact and fire floors that was also a heavy, rigid box. In the middle was the third section, partially damaged by the aircraft and weakened by heat from the fires. The core of the top section tried to move downward, but was held up by the hat truss. The hat truss, in turn redistributed the load to the perimeter columns. (p. 29)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cite_note-Gross-9

Why, yes. Yes I have. Have you ever heard of these quote?
"Great liars are also great magicians." - Adolf Hitler
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think" - Adolf Hitler
"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler

And perhaps the two best that fit this situation :

"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed." - Adolf Hitler
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." - Adolf Hitler

Oh and I know who Godwin is and his law.

You have heard of Occams Razor, but do you understand it?
Answering simplicity with the complex notions of conspiracy and lies indicates that you do not.
Also, we have independent research and loads of evidence that anybody in the world can inquire about...
How in the world does this compare to state censured propoganda of Hitler's Nazi Regime coming out of the horrors of WWI and the Great Depression?
It isn't even close and for you to even indicate that it is is telling indeed.

 

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Alex Jones Warns About Attacks Before 911 - Video

"They died in the plane crash"??
No. Six of the terrorists are still alive.

Coroner Wallace Miller:
"This is the most eerie thing," he says. "I have not, to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop."

It is you who make Occum's razor more complicated. The simple answer is this "The government lied."

 

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

I could go on about the Vietnam war and how it was never meant to be won. How the government leaked out the absurd strategy so that the vietcong could fight us accordingly and how the war was only meant to be sustained. You can look it up. You need the education. Seriously. Not trying to cut you down, or anything, but you need to learn more than I can teach you by posting a few links or quoting other people.

I could go on about how the Government questioned how we would end up in WWI, a war the citizens wanted nothing to do with, and it was reasoned that if a cruise liner full of civilians were attacked and sunk by the germans, then that might trigger enough support. They even posted a warning in the New York Times that anyone taking the cruise did so at their own risk. Funny how after the talk about how they could trigger the war, a cruise ship sailed from New York to german infest waters known to be patrolled by german war ships and was subsequently sunk, and then we entered into a war. I could go on about it, but you need to see for yourself.

I could go on about how Roosevelt talked about getting into WWII, which the US citizens wanted no part of. So the government cut off trade with Japan, giving all possible aid to China who was a known enemy of Japan, making it known where a bulk of our fleet was at (the Hawaiian Islands) and how guarded (or not) they were, as well as a list of other things to provoke the Japanese. I could also mention that even though no American favored the war, after the attack, over 1 million people signed up for military duty. I could, but you really need to look this up for yourself.

I'll be nice and give you this : FDR provoked the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

Really though, you should do research on your own.

Then consider 911, Bush and his Grandpa Prescott (who had nazi ties), and Cheney and his Haliburton connection, and... well just do the research and do it with an open mind.

 

[Bodi]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Alex Jones Warns About Attacks Before 911 - Video

"They died in the plane crash"??
No. Six of the terrorists are still alive.

Coroner Wallace Miller:
"This is the most eerie thing," he says. "I have not, to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop."

It is you who make Occum's razor more complicated. The simple answer is this "The government lied."

No. The passengers died in the plane crash. Refute that.
That is independent of six terrorists not dying because the FBI messed up and the six terrorists were not even on the flights.

Do you have a transcript of Alex Jones, my flash does not work and from the transcripts I have just been reading, I don't see anything specific. Hey, there are LOTS of prior warnings, but none of the are specific.

You don't get Occams Razor at all. :lol:
A plane crashes flown by terrorists that hijack it and that is the simple answer.
Conversations by OBL are taped outlining the attack and that is the simple thing.
Cell phone calls from passangers say that the planes are being hi jacked is simple.
Uncontrolled fires burning through a structure after being impacted by a jet plane collapsing is simple.

Tying the government into a billion dollar conspiracy were hundreds upon hundreds of people are involved, not one shred of evidence is found that indicates the governments involvement and not one person comes foreward to "deep throat" this conspiracy is COMLICATED.
The government doing a secret controlled demolition of the THREE WTC buildings the day that the buildings are crashed into with hijacked jet airliners, not having any of the demolition wires or explosives misfire, or malfunction, leaving a PERFECT demolition that nobody can detect, etc etc is COMPLICATED.

You have also asked for evidence about the Towers, to which I supplied a bunch of preliminary stuff and you ignored it all. From what I can tell, you are fairly uneducated and completely disingenuous.

 

[GOP Socialist Soldier]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

I would like to see a educated Truther and a educated non-Truther on the subject of this gravity thing.

My first question on 9-11 was where was the US jets; as I don't buy the "Cold War was Over" excuse when Russia was still running nuke subs nearby.

 

[Bodi]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

I could go on about the Vietnam war and how it was never meant to be won. How the government leaked out the absurd strategy so that the vietcong could fight us accordingly and how the war was only meant to be sustained. You can look it up. You need the education. Seriously. Not trying to cut you down, or anything, but you need to learn more than I can teach you by posting a few links or quoting other people.

Not trying to cut you down, but put up or shut up.
And it had better be better than that FDR ****.

I could go on about how the Government questioned how we would end up in WWI, a war the citizens wanted nothing to do with, and it was reasoned that if a cruise liner full of civilians were attacked and sunk by the germans, then that might trigger enough support. They even posted a warning in the New York Times that anyone taking the cruise did so at their own risk. Funny how after the talk about how they could trigger the war, a cruise ship sailed from New York to german infest waters known to be patrolled by german war ships and was subsequently sunk, and then we entered into a war. I could go on about it, but you need to see for yourself.

Yep. Nothing but another conspiracy. :rofl

I could go on about how Roosevelt talked about getting into WWII, which the US citizens wanted no part of. So the government cut off trade with Japan, giving all possible aid to China who was a known enemy of Japan, making it known where a bulk of our fleet was at (the Hawaiian Islands) and how guarded (or not) they were, as well as a list of other things to provoke the Japanese. I could also mention that even though no American favored the war, after the attack, over 1 million people signed up for military duty. I could, but you really need to look this up for yourself.

Just like the others... circumstantial. You have nothing.

I'll be nice and give you this : FDR provoked the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

Oh gee, thanks. You are so nice! LOL! That is a bunch of garbage. We didn't "push" Japan into war. they were already in war with China since 1931. They were intent on creating an Empire and were threatening colonies in SE Asia. They were allied to Germany and Italy... engaged in a war of mass slaughter, as were teh Japanese.

How does cutting off trade with an aggressor and instead trading with their enemy China, who was also a pseudo ally against the Communists equate to "provoking" them? Provoking is such an idiot word, it is meaningless. Abusive men say that their women "provoke" them by not doing this or that... you try to hard.

Really though, you should do research on your own.

Historical INTERPRETATION. You should work on it.

The most direct evidence of antagonisms toward Japan is the McCollum Memo written October 7th 1940 (declassified in 1994)

FDR provoked the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

THAT is that most direct evidence? :rofl
A memo written by some Naval Officer that may or may not have even been read by FDR. Even if it was, there is not one shred of evidence supporting that FDR actaully followed this line of reasoning.

Evidence that the memo or derivative works reached President Roosevelt, senior administration officials, or the Admiralty is largely circumstantial.

In a History Channel interview, Admiral Chester Nimitz Jr. described his father's political maneuver: "He said, 'It is my guess that the Japanese are going to attack us in a surprise attack. There will be a revulsion in the country against all those in command at sea, and they will be replaced by people in positions of prominence ashore, and I want to be ashore, and not at sea, when that happens.'" (Interview for the History Channel Program Admiral Chester Nimitz, Thunder of the Pacific)

McCollum memo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Off another "Smoking Gun" website!

This memo, which proves that the government of the United States desired to lure Japan into an attack, was declassified in 1994. It took fifty years for the truth about Pearl Harbor to be revealed. Will we have to wait that long for the truth of 9-11 to come out?

The McCollum Memo: The Smoking Gun of Pearl Harbor

A Naval Officer desires this but now it is the "government of the United States" that desires this!? LOL!

Then consider 911, Bush and his Grandpa Prescott (who had nazi ties), and Cheney and his Haliburton connection, and... well just do the research and do it with an open mind.

Yeah, I have. Tons of it. Intepretation and analysis are strong suits for me. I study history daily, it's part of my job. I have researched all of this and it is like the WTC, it is circumstantial.

I am asking you, my snide and seemingly uneducated little friend, since it is upon you to provide evidence backing your claim and not for me to go seek evidence that I know does not exist in order to refute your claim, to to make your argument free of snideness and with complete honesty and integrity. If you don't or won't, then you have no argument and this is over, you lost before you even started.

You are really new to this aren't you? :2wave:

 

[Oftencold]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Except there was not a single drop of blood or body part ever found.

I'm sorry, this is quite simply delusional.

[FONT=verdana, arial]With body bags waiting on the Pentagon grounds, rescue workers continued the painstaking task of removing victims' remains from the smoldering building, and military officials announced that the death toll had risen to nearly 200.[/FONT]

Link


​

He was also at the Pentagon when it was attacked by a plane Sept. 11, 2001. He toiled there for weeks in the grim aftermath, recovering bodies melted in jet fuel. Even now, he has nightmares.

"The bodies, the smell, all of it, it comes back to you at times," Dodge says by phone. "It was an honor to serve, but it was hard. You see things you never forget."

Link

​

52 of the 117 remains removed from the Pentagon have now been identified. Out of the more than 6,300 missing in New York those identified and whose families have also been notified now number 135.

Link

​

To date, 117 remains have been
recovered and transported to Dover Air Force Base, Del. for identification.

Link

​

Let's examine the "oddly burning from kero(sene)" remark - Kerosene burns hot enough to vaporize a plane made of titanium and steel? You say the plane disappeared at the Pentagon and rather inject that it did so because it is the most top secret building 'in' Earth -- well okay I disagree with it being the most top secret, but let's say you're right. The plane disappeared because the Pentagon is top secret...

What about the planes at The World Trade Center? It was all turned to dust. How? How could that happen? Not a chair, nor desk, nor a telephone was found save a piece of telephone face plate about 3 inches long.

Some reading on very basic chemistry and physics would help to illuminate the dark thoughts which haunt you. Did you even know that aluminum will burn? Do you have the slightest notion of the forces involved in a collapsing skyscraper, and what was essentially two blast furnaces the size of skyscrapers?

Let me answer for you. "No, you do not." Otherwise you wouldn't even ask such nonsense.

There had to be some type of extra heat source of some kind. I can see it crashing, burning, and then collapsing to the ground...
There would be pieces!

First, again you have no concept of the forces involved. Second, the planes were witnessed and photographed hitting the towers. Third, an engine landed in the street.

If all the terrorists who hijacked the plane died, how come six of them are still alive? How come one of the alleged terrorists on the FBI list says he has no idea what they're talking about, knows nothing about any of this stuff, does not have anything to do with Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, etc etc etc and is STILL ALIVE, yet the FBI list has never been updated? How come he has not been in custody if he's really one of the terrorists on the list?

There are plenty more questions I have I would like answered after you get done with these. :lol:

This last I will leave to others to demolish. (The average fourth graded should be up to the task.)

 

[Oftencold]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Oh here's an interesting supplementary article for you, in relation to your fairly insane statement that there were no body parts found at the Pentagon.

One intact set of remains showed a disturbing image of a woman trying to protect herself as though "frozen in time," hands in front of her face, with several pieces of clothing and patches of hair still intact. Several group members made specific reference to this corpse as being especially bothersome, while un-intact body parts were far less so. One member recalled being most disturbed by any body part that could be recognized as human. The same individual expressed openly his/her concerns about a young enlisted soldier who had allegedly seen intestines spread over a wall. He/she questioned whether other young enlisted soldiers on the excavation crews were undergoing similar emotional reactions upon discovery of disturbing and perhaps macabre scenes.

Link​

 

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Okay, first it's the UA 93 flight no blood was found at.
Second, aluminum burns at a quite lower temperature than titanium. HAHA.
Obviously I have more knowledge of the forces involved than you do, as you simply do not want to question your government. You sound like Britney Spears.

Put up or shut up? You shut up. Ignorant people should not be allowed to post. How's that? Do your own research. Quit living blindly and trusting our President just because he's our President, Britney.

Your ignorance and lack of any quest to seek knowledge and truth makes you look so very stupid.

What does this prove? :
"Oh gee, thanks. You are so nice! LOL! That is a bunch of garbage. We didn't "push" Japan into war. they were already in war with China since 1931. They were intent on creating an Empire and were threatening colonies in SE Asia. They were allied to Germany and Italy... engaged in a war of mass slaughter, as were teh Japanese."

Nothing.
It does say exactly what I said as well as others. That, yes, china and japan were in a war. It's been going on far longer than since 1931. HAHAHAHA! It's medeval, Britney.
But then back to the point of us provoking them by supporting the chinese. Hello? Anyone home? Nevermind. You are not very bright and result to kindergarten methods of character assassination, so I'm done with you and your stupidity.

 

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=2296490368603788739

 

[Oftencold]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Okay, first it's the UA 93 flight no blood was found at.
Second, aluminum burns at a quite lower temperature than titanium. HAHA.
Obviously I have more knowledge of the forces involved than you do, as you simply do not want to question your government. You sound like Britney Spears.

Put up or shut up? You shut up. Ignorant people should not be allowed to post. How's that? Do your own research. Quit living blindly and trusting our President just because he's our President, Britney.

Your ignorance and lack of any quest to seek knowledge and truth makes you look so very stupid.

What does this prove? :
"Oh gee, thanks. You are so nice! LOL! That is a bunch of garbage. We didn't "push" Japan into war. they were already in war with China since 1931. They were intent on creating an Empire and were threatening colonies in SE Asia. They were allied to Germany and Italy... engaged in a war of mass slaughter, as were teh Japanese."

Nothing.
It does say exactly what I said as well as others. That, yes, china and japan were in a war. It's been going on far longer than since 1931. HAHAHAHA! It's medeval, Britney.
But then back to the point of us provoking them by supporting the chinese. Hello? Anyone home? Nevermind. You are not very bright and result to kindergarten methods of character assassination, so I'm done with you and your stupidity.

I think we've about used up the possibilities of rational discourse here.

 

[Khayembii Communique]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Says you. I think it has not been debunked yet.

Yes, it was. The video clearly shows the full collapse of the building, and it is not even close to the free-fall speeds.

It's simple:
1. Calculate free fall time
2. Watch video
3. Determine time of collapse from video
4. Compare times

If you don't think it has been debunked then you can either show me the error in my math of calculating the free fall time or prove that the video is doctored.

Now why would they have to cut the beams at an angle to fall a certain way if the building had already collapsed?

Look at this picture again:

What do you think would happen if it fell the other way, where the crane is? What do you think would happen if that fell on a person?

But it didn't withstand such an impact. Or... were there other forces at work here? Hmm...

Being designed to withstand a force due to a plane crash does not equate to being able to withstand a plane crash.

I'm not going thread hunting.

There is no thread hunting involved; it's one of the top threads in the Conspiracy Theory forum. But since that's too difficult, I'll link it here.

Then by saying this, the war on terror is a lie? Weren't they after the lead terrorist? The guy responsible for 911? I agree that the Iraq war is a lie.

The war on terror is just as much of a lie as the war on communism was (with the exception being that "Communism" in the sense they used was a very real and powerful force contending with the US for power, while "terrorism" doesn't really exist as a thing to war against.

No, they weren't after the lead terrorist. They were after further incursions into the middle east in order to remove thorns in their side and to further secure their dominance over the region and its product.

This does not in any way imply that 9/11 was orchestrated by the government.

Breaks into dust? How is that possible? Why can't people understand physics?

I understand physics. I have personally done impact and compaction tests firsthand with numerous types of concrete. What you don't seem to understand is that this stuff crumbles when it falls from really high up with millions of pounds falling onto it simultaneously.

Or perhaps you, with all of your wisdom and intimate knowledge of physics and engineering, could enlighten me as to why you don't think this is possible?

The USA went into Vietnam, WWI and WWII for "Profit"?

The US went to war as a means of containment against the expansion of Soviet political and economic influence and as a means of securing these regions as dependable "allies". In a sense it was about profit because the "containment" of communism caused the perpetuation of the American imperialist program.

I would like to see a educated Truther and a educated non-Truther on the subject of this gravity thing.

I am more than willing to, which is why I offered up such a lengthy and descriptive post; I have just yet to receive a response from an "educated" truther.

Also Jessica, this thread is specifically about the issue of the towers falling at free-fall speeds, so I would appreciate it if you brought your other topics to the general 9/11 thread.

 

[Australianlibertarian]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Umm... I believe a part of the argument is what happened to those civilians? What did happen? Where did they go? If all the terrorists died on the plane, why are six of them still alive?

Do not know. But thanks for restating the same question being asked once again.


Not quite. I would love it if you could break it apart. I would hate to think our government once again killed US citizens to get us into a war for profit and oil like they have in the Vietnam war, WWI, WWII and other situations.


Okay. Ready! Go!

Why, yes. Yes I have. Have you ever heard of these quote?
"Great liars are also great magicians." - Adolf Hitler
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think" - Adolf Hitler
"How fortunate for leaders that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler

And perhaps the two best that fit this situation :

"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed." - Adolf Hitler
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." - Adolf Hitler

Oh and I know who Godwin is and his law.

It doesn't work like that. The most logical explanation and simplest is that all of the passengers died on the plane. Yet you made the assertion that they did not. Yet you have no credible evidence to point out that a single civilian passenger is walking around in some far of part of America, while their family still thinks that they are dead.

When proving a hypothesis you do not counter it with feeble rhetorical questions, you prove your point by establishing empirical evidence that the passengers are actually alive, otherwise all you have is paranoid conjecture which does not prove a single thing.

Next.....

 

[Rodney]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Air and structural resistance as the cavities and structures were collapsed. That simple. Move on.

HEY MAN...I was going to say that.Thats what I get for being 4 days to late.Physics is often to factual to be included in a good conspiracy. Now as for Roswell...Their physics is obviously different from ours sooooo...lol.

 

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Yeah air resistance. That makes perfect nonsense. :roll:

You guys need to think for once. I could show you diagrams and calculations of free fall speed and the billiard ball test, but then you'd just dispute that too, so we'll just leave at you guys just don't understand normal thinking. But, you know, that's what they want. They want you to believe their lies. They wouldn't be doing their job very well if everyone did not believe them. So, thanks to you, we have the situation we do. Why they show Britney Spears on the news instead of real events. Why they do not teach you much in school anymore. Why there are so many distractions, and pretty shiny things to keep you all from learning the truth. We'll just leave it at that. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Rodney]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

It doesn't work like that. The most logical explanation and simplest is that all of the passengers died on the plane. Yet you made the assertion that they did not. Yet you have no credible evidence to point out that a single civilian passenger is walking around in some far of part of America, while their family still thinks that they are dead.

When proving a hypothesis you do not counter it with feeble rhetorical questions, you prove your point by establishing empirical evidence that the passengers are actually alive, otherwise all you have is paranoid conjecture which does not prove a single thing.

Next.....

One point I didn`t see here was it was not the impact that caused the buildings to fall.They took the hit well and stood up untill the thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel melted the structural steel responsible for holding the buildings up.Melted anything is a liquid...liquid steel didn`t stand a chance against millions of pounds of gravitational force. Aussie,thanks a million for your posts

 

[Rodney]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Yeah air resistance. That makes perfect nonsense. :roll:

You guys need to think for once. I could show you diagrams and calculations of free fall speed and the billiard ball test, but then you'd just dispute that too, so we'll just leave at you guys just don't understand normal thinking. But, you know, that's what they want. They want you to believe their lies. They wouldn't be doing their job very well if everyone did not believe them. So, thanks to you, we have the situation we do. Why they show Britney Spears on the news instead of real events. Why they do not teach you much in school anymore. Why there are so many distractions, and pretty shiny things to keep you all from learning the truth. We'll just leave it at that. I feel sorry for you.

Jessica ,I liked your Hitler quotes...the guy had our government and medias nailed.

 

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Yes, it was. The video clearly shows the full collapse of the building, and it is not even close to the free-fall speeds.

It's simple:
1. Calculate free fall time
2. Watch video
3. Determine time of collapse from video
4. Compare times

If you don't think it has been debunked then you can either show me the error in my math of calculating the free fall time or prove that the video is doctored.

I cannot argue against your unreasoning. It's clearly close to free fall speed.

Look at this picture again:

What do you think would happen if it fell the other way, where the crane is? What do you think would happen if that fell on a person?

Okay so what am I looking at exactly? A small close up picture of a beam? Of what? Jim Beam? Fall on the guy? Why would it? It's probably secured in cement at the base. What are you talking about?

Being designed to withstand a force due to a plane crash does not equate to being able to withstand a plane crash.

:shock:

There is no thread hunting involved; it's one of the top threads in the Conspiracy Theory forum. But since that's too difficult, I'll link it here.



The war on terror is just as much of a lie as the war on communism was (with the exception being that "Communism" in the sense they used was a very real and powerful force contending with the US for power, while "terrorism" doesn't really exist as a thing to war against.

No, they weren't after the lead terrorist. They were after further incursions into the middle east in order to remove thorns in their side and to further secure their dominance over the region and its product.

This does not in any way imply that 9/11 was orchestrated by the government.

Says you. Not everyone agrees with you. Many feel this very much equates that it was orchestrated by the government. They were after the alleged lead terrorist. Bush even said he was going to make them pay. He was going to get OBL. Blah blah blah. Then he said he didn't really think that much about him. Why not?

I understand physics. I have personally done impact and compaction tests firsthand with numerous types of concrete. What you don't seem to understand is that this stuff crumbles when it falls from really high up with millions of pounds falling onto it simultaneously.

Or perhaps you, with all of your wisdom and intimate knowledge of physics and engineering, could enlighten me as to why you don't think this is possible?

Well, the pancake theory everyone is saying how the buildings fell, for one. Each level breaks the fall of another level. It isn't like the top level fell from 80 floors up all the way down, is it? No. If it is a pancake theory, it fell one level onto another level. That level, after breaking the fall of the top level, collapsed and fell, and so on. I understand crumble. Crumble is good. I can agree with crumble. This is not crumble. This is powder.

The US went to war as a means of containment against the expansion of Soviet political and economic influence and as a means of securing these regions as dependable "allies". In a sense it was about profit because the "containment" of communism caused the perpetuation of the American imperialist program.

We did not go into WWI or WW2 vs. the Soviets. In fact, they were our allies. But glad you agree with me about the profit thing.

I would like to see a educated Truther and a educated non-Truther on the subject of this gravity thing.

I am more than willing to, which is why I offered up such a lengthy and descriptive post; I have just yet to receive a response from an "educated" truther.

Also Jessica, this thread is specifically about the issue of the towers falling at free-fall speeds, so I would appreciate it if you brought your other topics to the general 9/11 thread.

I did not say that quote. So are you talking to me about someone else's quote? I really care not about what you would appreciate. I would appreciate a little reasoning and common sense, but I do not get that here. I would appreciate it if you would not quote someone else and then direct it at me by replying to me as if I said it.

 

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Jessica ,I liked your Hitler quotes...the guy had our government and medias nailed.

I find it peculiar the similarities.

 

[Australianlibertarian]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Interesting that no one has addressed my response at post #64. Very interesting. Missing passengers true hard to explain?

 

[Jessica]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Interesting that no one has addressed my response at post #64. Very interesting. Missing passengers true hard to explain?

Someone did. They said they died in the plane.
Yes I know. But that was their answer.
I want to know how all those dead terrorist hijackers are still alive.

 

[Australianlibertarian]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Fine, the next question is to establish whether or not the men that you claim are alive are indeed the high jackers. Do you have any evidence that can empirically show that the alleged high jackers are still alive and well?

 

[creativedreams]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Interesting that no one has addressed my response at post #64. Very interesting. Missing passengers true hard to explain?

See the video dirtpoorchris posted on the phone call from flight 93... perhapse this will get you tinking on the right direction..

 

[creativedreams]

re: 9/11 - Did the Towers Fall At Free-Fall Speeds? [W:912, 927]

Yes, it was. The video clearly shows the full collapse of the building, and it is not even close to the free-fall speeds.

It's simple:
1. Calculate free fall time
2. Watch video
3. Determine time of collapse from video
4. Compare times

If you don't think it has been debunked then you can either show me the error in my math of calculating the free fall time or prove that the video is doctored.



Look at this picture again:

What do you think would happen if it fell the other way, where the crane is? What do you think would happen if that fell on a person?



Being designed to withstand a force due to a plane crash does not equate to being able to withstand a plane crash.



There is no thread hunting involved; it's one of the top threads in the Conspiracy Theory forum. But since that's too difficult, I'll link it here.



The war on terror is just as much of a lie as the war on communism was (with the exception being that "Communism" in the sense they used was a very real and powerful force contending with the US for power, while "terrorism" doesn't really exist as a thing to war against.

No, they weren't after the lead terrorist. They were after further incursions into the middle east in order to remove thorns in their side and to further secure their dominance over the region and its product.

This does not in any way imply that 9/11 was orchestrated by the government.



I understand physics. I have personally done impact and compaction tests firsthand with numerous types of concrete. What you don't seem to understand is that this stuff crumbles when it falls from really high up with millions of pounds falling onto it simultaneously.

Or perhaps you, with all of your wisdom and intimate knowledge of physics and engineering, could enlighten me as to why you don't think this is possible?



The US went to war as a means of containment against the expansion of Soviet political and economic influence and as a means of securing these regions as dependable "allies". In a sense it was about profit because the "containment" of communism caused the perpetuation of the American imperialist program.



I am more than willing to, which is why I offered up such a lengthy and descriptive post; I have just yet to receive a response from an "educated" truther.

Also Jessica, this thread is specifically about the issue of the towers falling at free-fall speeds, so I would appreciate it if you brought your other topics to the general 9/11 thread.

I don't care how many seconds short of free fall speed it comes up. Building#7 should not have collapsed at the exact same time on all four rectangular corners. If it would have collapsed at all it would have been as the fire progressed to different areas at uneven times.

Plus if the beams weren't severed the steel beams fastened together all the way up would look like spaghetti noodles sticking up while the floors around them collapsed.


On top of all this look up the findings of the "Underwriters Laboratories" on bare steel weakening temperatures and how they flat out told "Frank Gayle of the NIST report" that the steel easily should have withstood the temperatures and the buildings should have stood.