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44 ex-senators warn U.S. is 'entering a dangerous period'

Buzz62 said:
I agree. If a wall was erected all along the boarder, illegals would have a much tougher time breaking into the USA.
Thanks.
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More than half of the current flow of illegal immigrants enter this country (legally) through various international airports and merely overstay their VISA. This very expensive wall does NOTHING to address half the problem. Then again, the people that fly-in tend to have a lighter skin tone, so Trump supporters really don't care.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...der-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216

If Trump supporters were really concerned about illegal immigration, there would be initiatives to address all material aspects of the problem, not just the "brown skin problem".
 
Hatuey said:
If that's what you understood, you need a new catchphrase tape. I told you that you would criticize any institution that doesn't say what you want it to say.

Prove me wrong.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.
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Yes...you said that. What I'm saying is that you are obviously fine with the erosion of free speech and democratic elections because these are the two major things that have been under attack since the elections.
 
Fishking said:
Sorry, no...that's a flawed analogy in many ways.

First of all...we didn't have a single person "hire" the President. Millions of people elected him and in a working democracy or, in this case, a democratic republic, you fix the issue of having a bad one by electing someone else the next go-around. As to him being a horrible President bad at his job. That's simply not 100% true. In many ways, he's been wildly successful. You like < $2/gallon of gas? You like low unemployment? You like not starting new wars and supporting terrorists? You like making actual progress with North Korea? You like manufacturing jobs coming back to the U.S.? I know I do.

Now, has he been a good President so far as personal character, personal conduct, being a role model, ect? Hell no...but I prefer policy over shallow whining over someone being a ****head.
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We were told that Trump was a terribly flawed individual. Not a single major US newspaper endorsed him. The all said he was unfit for office. Here are the endorsements of some of America's most conservative papers.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2016/09/07/recommend-hillary-clinton-us-president
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/op...dorses-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/90728344/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...-editorial-board-editorials-debates/91295020/
Endorsement: Hillary Clinton is the only choice to move America ahead

Well, in spite of that, we voted for him. The electoral college was suppose to overrule the electorate when it made a very bad decision (electing someone that was unfit). They failed to do their job. (no one expected them to as this has become ceremonial with few people understanding their role)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._68

So, now we have a duly elected unfit President. The problem is that the editorials warning us not to elect Trump actually got it wrong. They way understated his corruption, his incompetence, his inability to function as an executive. He is far worse than anyone thought. Moreover, we are learning that he is likely more corrupt than anyone thought, including perhaps acquiring the office through cheating.

So, yes, we elected wrong. The normal response to that would be to wait four years. However, he IS unfit to serve. The issue now, similar to the analogy I was laying out, is that we have a President today that most of America (54%) believes is unfit (incompetent and therefore dangerous), what do we do about it? That is a contemporary question rather than one of regret. Similar to the bad hire, the question is what do we today to protect what is dear to us, in this case, our democracy from gross incompetence.

The only people that are trying to re-litigate the 2016 elections are the ones that do not understand the perceived imminent threat most of us feel by having a total incompetent and corrupt individual at the helm. It may not be safe to wait to 2020.

That statement may seem strong, but its not a fringe statement. It is a sediment that a very large portion of the American electorate from all political spectrums hold.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/opinion/trump-russia-putin.html
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...acy-under-threat-constitution-checks-balances
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-ame...-trump-is-bigger-threat-than-terrorist-attack
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...s--bpresstt--m-a20180906-20180906-column.html
https://www.oregonlive.com/expo/erry-2018/04/7235343a566782/bestselling_author_brad_thor_c.html
 
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upsideguy said:
More than half of the current flow of illegal immigrants enter this country (legally) through various international airports and merely overstay their VISA. This very expensive wall does NOTHING to address half the problem. Then again, the people that fly-in tend to have a lighter skin tone, so Trump supporters really don't care.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...der-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216

If Trump supporters were really concerned about illegal immigration, there would be initiatives to address all material aspects of the problem, not just the "brown skin problem".
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OK so first of all, why would you make this about skin colour?
Is that some sort of racist statement? Do you think it bad that...how did you put it..."lighter skin tone" people fly into the USA as visitors and over stay their welcome? Or are you upset that the people who tend to fly into the USA have a "lighter skin tone"? Either way...that sounds fairly racist to me.

Secondly, these people you don't seem to like...these "lighter skin tone" people...are being tracked down by ICE as well as other immigration officials. So you can sleep safely knowing that your government is actively working to protect you from all those "lighter skin tone" people who seem to be able to afford airline tickets, according to you.

Personally I don't give a rat's ass what skin tone a person has. Illegal migration is a crime.!

But...you should try to deal better with your racist ideas. People tend to frown upon that.
 
Buzz62 said:
OK so first of all, why would you make this about skin colour?
Is that some sort of racist statement? Do you think it bad that...how did you put it..."lighter skin tone" people fly into the USA as visitors and over stay their welcome? Or are you upset that the people who tend to fly into the USA have a "lighter skin tone"? Either way...that sounds fairly racist to me.

Secondly, these people you don't seem to like...these "lighter skin tone" people...are being tracked down by ICE as well as other immigration officials. So you can sleep safely knowing that your government is actively working to protect you from all those "lighter skin tone" people who seem to be able to afford airline tickets, according to you.

Personally I don't give a rat's ass what skin tone a person has. Illegal migration is a crime.!

But...you should try to deal better with your racist ideas. People tend to frown upon that.
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...because more than 1/2 of illegal immigrants arrive at the airport and overstay their welcome, but we obsess over the Mexican border.

If you look at illegal border crossings, they have been dropping for more than a decade. But we feel compelled to build a wall.

What we know about illegal immigration from Mexico | Pew Research Center

Trump's whole tenor in this matter has been bigoted, yet few of his supporters call him out on it. Since those supporters enable it, they are part of the problem.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html

Sorry, but the evidence is pretty overwhelming that this is substantially fueled by bigotry and is right out of the nationalist playbook. If I am wrong, please present a compelling case. On this matter I would like to be wrong, but I don't believe I am.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/burka-blog/breaking-trumps-border-wall/
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-trump-administration-doesnt-see-latinos-as-americans/2018/08/30/0ab8b7de-ac83-11e8-b1da-ff7faa680710_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.cf46c11ce44c
[/URL]
 
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Buzz62 said:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/25/christopher-steele-admits-dossier-charge-unverifie/

Bye bye...
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Unverified is NOT the same thing as fabricated. Unverified simply means that it hasn't been independently corroborated.

In fact, to date most of the elements of the dossier have been proven and none of it has been dis-proven. Given that Steele is one of the world's foremost experts on the interworkings of Russia, with contacts out the wahzoo, I think its a safe bet to assume that its a pretty good roadmap.

https://thehill.com/policy/national...and-more-of-steele-dossier-proving-to-be-true
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/some-questions-in-trump-russia-dossier-now-finding-answers/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ue-mi6-putin-moscow-hotel-cohen-a8315046.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Russia_dossier
 
Tell you what guys, there's only 2 species that exist:

1. Those that LIKE Trump.
2. Those that HATE Trump

There's like NO in between (even if you think there is one - which there isn't)
 
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smallvoice said:
Proof of what? Can you provide ANY rational reason not to secure the borders?
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No one said our borders shouldn't be secured. I asked you for proof of your assertion, Mr. God's Country.

Now hand it over or stop repeating your vile lies.
 
upsideguy said:
...because more than 1/2 of illegal immigrants arrive at the airport and overstay their welcome, but we obsess over the Mexican border.
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OK and ICE and assorted police and immigration authorities work to manage that. I would guess many countries have that issue.

upsideguy said:
If you look at illegal border crossings, they have been dropping for more than a decade. But we feel compelled to build a wall.
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You obviously don't feel compelled to build a wall. But there are enough who do that the idea helped Trump become POTUS. That's how democracy works. Is your beef with the people or democracy?

upsideguy said:
Trump's whole tenor in this matter has been bigoted, yet few of his supporters call him out on it. Since those supporters enable it, they are part of the problem.
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Hmmm...This is where you guys always over extend yourselves.
First of all, everyone has some level of bigotry. EVERYONE! Those who say they do not...are lying.
Second, these claims of Trump's bigotries are alarmist and way over-blown. It's just the Lefty battle cry now. When ever possible, scream RACIST. It's silly now.

upsideguy said:
Sorry, but the evidence is pretty overwhelming that this is substantially fueled by bigotry and is right out of the nationalist playbook. If I am wrong, please present a compelling case. On this matter I would like to be wrong, but I don't believe I am.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/burka-blog/breaking-trumps-border-wall/
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-trump-administration-doesnt-see-latinos-as-americans/2018/08/30/0ab8b7de-ac83-11e8-b1da-ff7faa680710_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.cf46c11ce44c
[/URL]
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I've read all the arguments but quite frankly...I don't see any offensive or overt racism from Trump as President.
I mean...it's not like he makes a big deal about any skin toned people.
 
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Parrish said:
Everyone needs to read their letter before replying as partisans . This is the moment we need to protect our democracy and institutions.
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The letter lambasts the Left wing.
 
Desert Storm said:
I don't. What makes you think that?? :confused:
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It's just odd that you'd try to dismiss an argument that we put party power aside for the good of the Republic. If one wanted America to fail, they would certainly be rooting for more partisanship and party power first mentalities.
 
apdst said:
The letter lambasts the Left wing.
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Gee, I never thought that preserving, protecting and defending our Constitution, the rule of law and our institutions was mainstream and dear to any political party.
 
Ikari said:
It's just odd that you'd try to dismiss an argument that we put party power aside for the good of the Republic. If one wanted America to fail, they would certainly be rooting for more partisanship and party power first mentalities.
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I think you need to stop drinking
 
Desert Storm said:
I think you need to stop drinking
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I think it's quite the weak and intellectually dishonest deflection to insinuate that someone has been drinking as a way to dismiss an argument. But some, I guess, need the intellectual dishonesty as a tool to avoid actual debate and argument, so have at it.
 
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