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14-Year-Old Refuses To Remove NRA T-Shirt, Faces 1 Year In Jail

Lutherf

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14-Year-Old Refuses To Remove NRA T-Shirt, Faces 1 Year In Jail // Mr. Conservative

I'm pretty sure that this was discussed earlier but one would have reasonably thought it would have all blown over by now. Apparently that's not the case.

This all started in April and ABC has a decent rundown of the events at that point -
West Virginia Teen Arrested After Wearing NRA T-Shirt to School - ABC News

Notice that in the story the police chief says that Jared almost started a riot but if you read the story it seems that the teacher was the one causing a scene.
 

LaMidRighter

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14-Year-Old Refuses To Remove NRA T-Shirt, Faces 1 Year In Jail // Mr. Conservative

I'm pretty sure that this was discussed earlier but one would have reasonably thought it would have all blown over by now. Apparently that's not the case.

This all started in April and ABC has a decent rundown of the events at that point -
West Virginia Teen Arrested After Wearing NRA T-Shirt to School - ABC News

Notice that in the story the police chief says that Jared almost started a riot but if you read the story it seems that the teacher was the one causing a scene.
Seems to me the only instigators are the administrators and teachers. It's about time to start firing these idiots for this kind of stuff.
 

soccerboy22

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Seems to me the only instigators are the administrators and teachers. It's about time to start firing these idiots for this kind of stuff.

Eh I sorta agree, but at the same time don't. Teacher could have handled it better, but reading the ABC article the kid sounds like he was trying to be a smartass. The arrest was unwarranted though.
 

Lutherf

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Eh I sorta agree, but at the same time don't. Teacher could have handled it better, but reading the ABC article the kid sounds like he was trying to be a smartass. The arrest was unwarranted though.

Teenagers certainly do play the smartass card from time to time but if your job is to interact with them then you had damned well better be able to handle things. From everything I've read it looks like this teacher was far more of a problem than the kid was.
 

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14-Year-Old Refuses To Remove NRA T-Shirt, Faces 1 Year In Jail // Mr. Conservative

I'm pretty sure that this was discussed earlier but one would have reasonably thought it would have all blown over by now. Apparently that's not the case.

This all started in April and ABC has a decent rundown of the events at that point -
West Virginia Teen Arrested After Wearing NRA T-Shirt to School - ABC News

Notice that in the story the police chief says that Jared almost started a riot but if you read the story it seems that the teacher was the one causing a scene.

Wow, they're apparently throwing the book at this kid. My guess is that it'll get pled to a misdemeanor and he'll get community service. I hope that's what happens, anyway.

Kids can be very idealistic in today's connected world. He's not a bad kid...an honor roll student...wants a career in the military. Now here's my thought -- this kid, most especially if he's planning on going into the military, is going to have to learn to respect authority whether or not he agrees with it.

I sincerely hope his dad is taking this opportunity to teach him that. If his dad is determined to send a message to his son that his son did nothing wrong...was just sticking up for his rights...that'd be a damned shame. The boy will take whatever lead his dad presents. Maybe that's already what's going on here and that's why the authorities are throwing the book at him.

Poor kid.
 

Lutherf

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Wow, they're apparently throwing the book at this kid. My guess is that it'll get pled to a misdemeanor and he'll get community service. I hope that's what happens, anyway.

Kids can be very idealistic in today's connected world. He's not a bad kid...an honor roll student...wants a career in the military. Now here's my thought -- this kid, most especially if he's planning on going into the military, is going to have to learn to respect authority whether or not he agrees with it.

I sincerely hope his dad is taking this opportunity to teach him that. If his dad is determined to send a message to his son that his son did nothing wrong...was just sticking up for his rights...that'd be a damned shame. The boy will take whatever lead his dad presents. Maybe that's already what's going on here and that's why the authorities are throwing the book at him.

Poor kid.

If I was this kid's father I'd hesitate to recommend that he tale a plea (unless there is something more to this than we have seen). I'd hate to see my kid get railroaded but if nobody stands up to this kind of crap we're toast. I doubt that a jury would convict in a case like this and even if they do I can't see the decision standing on appeal.
 

soccerboy22

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Teenagers certainly do play the smartass card from time to time but if your job is to interact with them then you had damned well better be able to handle things. From everything I've read it looks like this teacher was far more of a problem than the kid was.

I agree about the teacher, but at the same time the student needs to realize it is not his place to openly question the teacher like he was. That is the job of the parent and it sounds like his parents would have done that.
 

Lutherf

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I agree about the teacher, but at the same time the student needs to realize it is not his place to openly question the teacher like he was. That is the job of the parent and it sounds like his parents would have done that.

It depends on how it was done. Kids should absolutely be allowed to question authority. Hell, they should be ENCOURAGED to do so....but to do so appropriately. If, as the report indicates, the kid just stood his ground and the teacher overreacted that's a problem with the teacher. Now, if the kid just flipped the teacher off and went on his way that would be a different story...kind of.
 

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If I was this kid's father I'd hesitate to recommend that he tale a plea (unless there is something more to this than we have seen). I'd hate to see my kid get railroaded but if nobody stands up to this kind of crap we're toast. I doubt that a jury would convict in a case like this and even if they do I can't see the decision standing on appeal.

Personally, I would never take that chance with my son. A felony will follow him forever...maybe even preclude his getting into the military. And effect him in ways one can't even imagine at 14. One never knows what a jury will do. A jury trial costs $$. So does an appeal.

While I agree with you that somebody's gotta' stand up to this ****, it sure wouldn't be my 14-year-old son. ;) It's an important learning moment in his life. Presented to him in the right way, it's a lesson that could, in good way, shape him for the rest of his life. No matter how he feels about pleading down. He's too young to risk paying the price, is my thought.
 

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Eh I sorta agree, but at the same time don't. Teacher could have handled it better, but reading the ABC article the kid sounds like he was trying to be a smartass. The arrest was unwarranted though.
That's my biggest issue, the arrest, if the kid was being pushed to any kind of aggression he didn't instigate it, and he has a right to be a smartass, however the school does have the right to take administrative actions against insubordination. My next concern is the whole "no gun references whatsoever" zero tolerance policies in schools, forget the second amendment for a second, this at the very least is a first amendment issue, the kids aren't engaged in anything offensive or obscene which pretty much makes administration and their policies the aggressors in my opinion. I get that schools don't want guns on campus, but even referencing being punished to the point that if kids played "soldiers" on the playground or brought a toy soldier they'll suffer punishment is draconian and irresponsibly stupid. My reasoning behind calling for the firing of the administration is incompetence.
 
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Fiddytree

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Probably not a great idea to make a public scene of it.
 

LaMidRighter

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Probably not a great idea to make a public scene of it.
Sure, the kid should have found better ways to express displeasure with a very stupid rule and probably did take it too far. However there is nothing I've seen in this story that equals felony or a year in jail. The teacher was the aggressor, and the policy is the very definition of insanely stupid.

EDIT - One more thing upon re reading this, the officer probably should be reprimanded and the charges dropped as well. He was arrested on an obstruction charge because he wouldn't stop talking, he had every right to explain himself during the situation.
 
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Lutherf

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Personally, I would never take that chance with my son. A felony will follow him forever...maybe even preclude his getting into the military. And effect him in ways one can't even imagine at 14. One never knows what a jury will do. A jury trial costs $$. So does an appeal.

While I agree with you that somebody's gotta' stand up to this ****, it sure wouldn't be my 14-year-old son. ;) It's an important learning moment in his life. Presented to him in the right way, it's a lesson that could, in good way, shape him for the rest of his life. No matter how he feels about pleading down. He's too young to risk paying the price, is my thought.

This wouldn't be a felony. To the best of my knowledge felony obstruction has to go a whole lot farther than just "He wouldn't shut up".
 

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It depends on how it was done. Kids should absolutely be allowed to question authority. Hell, they should be ENCOURAGED to do so....but to do so appropriately. If, as the report indicates, the kid just stood his ground and the teacher overreacted that's a problem with the teacher. Now, if the kid just flipped the teacher off and went on his way that would be a different story...kind of.

Well that is the thing though 14 year olds really only know how to debate in one way. Either way, should have been a detention or two depending on how the student reacted. Teacher should get teacher version of detention.
 

LaMidRighter

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Well that is the thing though 14 year olds really only know how to debate in one way. Either way, should have been a detention or two depending on how the student reacted. Teacher should get teacher version of detention.
I just don't see anything offensive about the kid's shirt to start. I had an army surplus shirt I wore all the time as a kid and it had the bulldog, military themes, etc. and never had a problem with it. The only policies I had to follow in school were things like "overtly sexual references" "drug/alcohol references", or profanity.
 

Fiddytree

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Sure, the kid should have found better ways to express displeasure with a very stupid rule and probably did take it too far. However there is nothing I've seen in this story that equals felony or a year in jail. The teacher was the aggressor, and the policy is the very definition of insanely stupid.

EDIT - One more thing upon re reading this, the officer probably should be reprimanded and the charges dropped as well. He was arrested on an obstruction charge because he wouldn't stop talking, he had every right to explain himself during the situation.

I meant the instructor. Though it is hard to judge the instructor immediately, it is also smartest to eliminate a student's audience that he/she can use to try to get power over the instructor. A quieter atmosphere can generally help.
 

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That's my biggest issue, the arrest, if the kid was being pushed to any kind of aggression he didn't instigate it, and he has a right to be a smartass, however the school does have the right to take administrative actions against insubordination. My next concern is the whole "no gun references whatsoever" zero tolerance policies in schools, forget the second amendment for a second, this at the very least is a first amendment issue, the kids aren't engaged in anything offensive or obscene which pretty much makes administration and their policies the aggressors in my opinion. I get that schools don't want guns on campus, but even referencing being punished to the point that if kids played "soldiers" on the playground or brought a toy soldier they'll suffer punishment is draconian and irresponsibly stupid. My reasoning behind calling for the firing of the administration is incompetence.

Eh. I've been in trouble for violating dress code by teachers before when I was like 15ish. I did my one smartass comment, apologized and then told my parents when I got home and they handled it. Dress codes are there for a reason. Teacher though must be a Yankee fan or having such terrible decision making :).
 

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The kid's attorney ought to file a 42 USC sec. 1983 civil rights suit naming the police officer INDIVIDUALLY and the school and the police department as joint defendants in this civil rights suit. Under such a suit the police officer will be individually liable if the plaintiff wins and since his interests might be in conflict with that of his employer he normally will have to obtain separate counsel because the prosecuting attorney charged with civil defense of the PD and the School might find it more convenient to throw the individual officer under the bus. He should also sue the teacher individually since the teacher is arguably acting "under the color of state law" and thus comes within the zone of a constitutional tort
 

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I just don't see anything offensive about the kid's shirt to start. I had an army surplus shirt I wore all the time as a kid and it had the bulldog, military themes, etc. and never had a problem with it. The only policies I had to follow in school were things like "overtly sexual references" "drug/alcohol references", or profanity.

Well my dress code was polos or college shirt. Not much to argue with there.
 

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This wouldn't be a felony. To the best of my knowledge felony obstruction has to go a whole lot farther than just "He wouldn't shut up".

I misread it, Luther. In light of it being just a misdemeanor, I would let my son fight it if he so chose. With the understanding that he runs the risk of going to jail for one year if convicted. (And that's IF I had $15-$20,000 to throw at it.)
 

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I meant the instructor. Though it is hard to judge the instructor immediately, it is also smartest to eliminate a student's audience that he/she can use to try to get power over the instructor. A quieter atmosphere can generally help.
Gotcha. I dunno, sometimes I think it's best to let the students judge for themselves the situation, then again they may not have the maturity to handle conflicts like this so IMO it's a toss up.
 

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Well my dress code was polos or college shirt. Not much to argue with there.
Yeah. In fact not long after I graduated from H.S. the district went to polos, khakis according to school colors. I didn't agree with it as I think students should have as much practical expressive freedom as possible, but my side was the minority.
 

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Well that is the thing though 14 year olds really only know how to debate in one way. Either way, should have been a detention or two depending on how the student reacted. Teacher should get teacher version of detention.

Right. The fact that this has gone this far is indicative of a system way, way out of control.
 

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Gotcha. I dunno, sometimes I think it's best to let the students judge for themselves the situation, then again they may not have the maturity to handle conflicts like this so IMO it's a toss up.

You give them the choice by delivering a statement or a warning to the student, but more or less individually. In the classroom setting you get somewhat close and say it quietly, casually, even. But the goal is to neutralize as much as possible the classroom. Personally, with all sorts of hindsight (that's something a big public controversy grants you) I think the shirt could have waited till the student was ready to head to his next class, perhaps mentioning something quietly during the lunch break about wanting to talk to them afterward.
 

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Right. The fact that this has gone this far is indicative of a system way, way out of control.

A series of unnecessary escalations from both the student and those in positions of authority. No quick dismissals will come from me, even though I typically side with school authority on many other issues.
 
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