10 years after the Bush Mortgage Bubble, mortgage defaults finally back to normal

[humbolt]

Er uh Humbolt, help me understand why you think I’m posting about something from 2007. I stated Barney’s bill died in the republican congress. Certainly even you could figure out I’m not referring to something from 2007. But Humbolt pretending I’m talking about something from 2007 doesn’t address the Conference of State Bank Supervisors (CSBS), the National Governors Association (NGA), the National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG), the National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), and the North America Securities Administrators Association (NASAA) begging Bush not to preempt all state laws against predatory lending. That was the main point of my reply to your “bush is dumb as a box of rocks” narrative. Oh I get it now, you’re trying to deflect from the fact that I confirmed your “bush is dumb as a box of rocks” narrative . Anyhoo, here’s the bill from barney in 2004 that died in the republican congress.

H.R. 5251 (108th): Preservation of Federalism in Banking Act

Preservation of Federalism in Banking Act (2004; 108th Congress H.R. 5251) - GovTrack.us

so we can continue to discuss your “bush is dumb as a box of rocks” narrative if you want.

You're cherry picking and leaving out that which doesn't suit your nuttiness.

Forbes Welcome

Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco - The Boston Globe

The Financial Crisis Made Barney Frank's Career - Bloomberg

Here's a quote from that last link, although many, many others are available: "The Lehman crisis made Frank’s career. Before the meltdown, he had just begun to step back from his longtime protection of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage-finance giants, which contributed to his campaigns and helped finance the rental housing he favored."

Frank was in it up to his ears, and everybody but you seems to know this. His legislation in 2004 never made it out of committee, which for all practical purposes means that it didn't and doesn't exist.

 

[shagg]

No, unprecedented Govt corruption and interference

Corruption and interference can come in many forms. In this context, they're the same thing (as what I mentioned in my previous post).

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Who repealed Glass-Steagall again? Sure wasn't Bush.

The repeal of Glass-Steagal was passed with a veto-proof majority by the Republican congress under Clinton...but because Clinton signed it, he owns it and rightfully gets the final blame.

But don't pretend that the GOP isn't every bit as responsible.

 

[eohrnberger]

Oh eohrn, you do make me laugh. “the light of reason” you refer to was just you repeating “nuh uh” over and over, arguing with me when I explained Bush was not president in 2000 (and you were quite snarky when you hilariously think you proved Bush was president in 2000) and telling me “loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic mortgages”. So obviously you have a special definition of “the light of reason”. And eohrn, I cant help it people don’t want to discuss the fact that mortgage defaults have finally receded to pre Bush Mortgage Bubble levels. It seems conservatives just want to flail at the facts like you do. Is that what you mean by “the light of reason”?

I won't be engaging with as dishonest poster such as yourself.

 

[jaeger19]

And commission accelerators too. We need serious compensation for putting up with these threads. They make my eyes bleed.

\

I think I end up bleeding from somewhere else... :shock:

 

[Vern]

I won't be engaging with as dishonest poster such as yourself.

eorhn, if you are unable to engage that poster then you should stop whining about him. And not for nothing eohrn, when I call someone dishonest, I cut and paste what they've posted to show the dishonesty. Me not agreeing with you posting "nuh uh" over and doesn't make me dishonest.

 

[eohrnberger]

eorhn, if you are unable to engage that poster then you should stop whining about him. And not for nothing eohrn, when I call someone dishonest, I cut and paste what they've posted to show the dishonesty. Me not agreeing with you posting "nuh uh" over and doesn't make me dishonest.

I won't be engaging with as dishonest poster such as yourself.

 

[jaeger19]

I don't mean to be a bother gdgyva but whining about me doesn't address the facts I've posted. If I'm going to totally honest here, I think its really a dishonest attempt to deflect from the facts I've posted. And gdgyva, just so you know "countless books and editorials" have been written to say to say just what you want to believe. But remember when you used to believe "bush tried to stop it" or " its all Barny Frank's fault". so instead of assuring me I'm wrong, why not address the facts I've posted.

Excuse me...

But none of the facts show that the Mortgage crises was because of the direct actions of George Bush.

Please provide evidence that:

George Bush forced people to buy homes that they could not afford

George Bush forced mortgage companies to loan money to people to buy houses they could not afford

George Bush forced investment companies to transform these bad loans into seemingly good investments and sell them to the public.

George Bush forced insurance companies to rate these bad investments as AAA rated even though they were made up of junk mortgages.

If you cannot produce such evidence... then your premise is simply wrong.

 

[Vern]

You're cherry picking and leaving out that which doesn't suit your nuttiness.

Forbes Welcome

Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco - The Boston Globe

The Financial Crisis Made Barney Frank's Career - Bloomberg

Here's a quote from that last link, although many, many others are available: "The Lehman crisis made Frank’s career. Before the meltdown, he had just begun to step back from his longtime protection of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage-finance giants, which contributed to his campaigns and helped finance the rental housing he favored."

Frank was in it up to his ears, and everybody but you seems to know this. His legislation in 2004 never made it out of committee, which for all practical purposes means that it didn't and doesn't exist.

Oh look, you found some editorials that tell you what you want to hear. so are we no longer discussing your “bush is dumb as a box of rocks” narrative? anyhoo, you can post a 1000 editorials but they dispute one fact I've posted. that's the thing about editorials, they try to get you to believe things without addressing the actual facts. find an editorial that mentions Bush preempting all state laws against predatory lending, all 50 states complaining about it, the 1000 % increase in No Doc loans after Bush preempted all state laws against predatory lending then we can discuss it.

But at least you aren't pretending not to know about Barney's bill or what year we're talking about. that's an improvement. But you whining "it didn't make it out of committee" or "Frank was in it up to his ears" doesn't change the actual facts.

 

[Cephus]

The repeal of Glass-Steagal was passed with a veto-proof majority by the Republican congress under Clinton...but because Clinton signed it, he owns it and rightfully gets the final blame.

But don't pretend that the GOP isn't every bit as responsible.

I didn't say any of that, I just pointed out that these things didn't happen under Bush's watch. It's funny watching people scramble to remove blame from a liberal president though.

 

[Vern]

Excuse me...

But none of the facts show that the Mortgage crises was because of the direct actions of George Bush.

Please provide evidence that:

George Bush forced people to buy homes that they could not afford

George Bush forced mortgage companies to loan money to people to buy houses they could not afford

George Bush forced investment companies to transform these bad loans into seemingly good investments and sell them to the public.

George Bush forced insurance companies to rate these bad investments as AAA rated even though they were made up of junk mortgages.

If you cannot produce such evidence... then your premise is simply wrong.

jaeger, you cant even accept the fact that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004. You've repeatedly shown you don't care what the facts are.

 

[humbolt]

Oh look, you found some editorials that tell you what you want to hear. so are we no longer discussing your “bush is dumb as a box of rocks” narrative? anyhoo, you can post a 1000 editorials but they dispute one fact I've posted. that's the thing about editorials, they try to get you to believe things without addressing the actual facts. find an editorial that mentions Bush preempting all state laws against predatory lending, all 50 states complaining about it, the 1000 % increase in No Doc loans after Bush preempted all state laws against predatory lending then we can discuss it.

But at least you aren't pretending not to know about Barney's bill or what year we're talking about. that's an improvement. But you whining "it didn't make it out of committee" or "Frank was in it up to his ears" doesn't change the actual facts.

That Frank was in it up to his ears, as has been documented ad nauseam. Bush was dumb as a box of rocks was just a demonstration that you believe he was, and yet he somehow subverted every fiscal and financial instrument of the federal government without seemingly lifting a finger.

 

[jaeger19]

jaeger, you cant even accept the fact that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004. You've repeatedly shown you don't care what the facts are.

okay.. lets assume that the mortgage crisis started in late 2004 for giggles...

NOW.. please provide evidence that:

George Bush forced people to buy homes that they could not afford in 2004
George Bush forced mortgage companies to loan money to people to buy houses they could not afford in 2004

George Bush forced investment companies to transform these bad loans into seemingly good investments and sell them to the public in 2004
George Bush forced insurance companies to rate these bad investments as AAA rated even though they were made up of junk mortgages in 2004.

If you cannot.. then your premise is simply wrong.

Get to it Vern.. we are all waiting.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

I didn't say any of that, I just pointed out that these things didn't happen under Bush's watch. It's funny watching people scramble to remove blame from a liberal president though.

I did lay the blame at Clinton's feet...and at the Republicans who passed the bill with a veto-proof majority. And when it comes to Bush, he inherited an economy with a budget surplus and no wars, and by the time he was done, we were losing 800K jobs per month and a record deficit (and two wars). So don't try to sugar-coat what Bush 43 did. His dad was a very good president - very underrated IMO (and Obama said the same thing) - but Dubya...he was truly a crappy president...but then, he was nothing more than a product of what the GOP had become.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

I didn't say any of that, I just pointed out that these things didn't happen under Bush's watch. It's funny watching people scramble to remove blame from a liberal president though.

Both me and Glen laid some of the blame on Clinton.

And on the other side of that 'blame' coin there are many here who refuse to blame the Republicans in Congress. Phill Gramm is a name many who refuse to blame any Republican need to look up and see what his role was in the bubble and crash. Also people may want to see how big of a role Mr. Gramm had in the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.

BTW Ted Cruz wanted Gramm as his economic adverser. Yet another reason I Thank God Ted Cruz is out of the race. Of all the candidates IMO Cruz might have been the most dangerous, even more so then Trump. And that's saying a lot.

 

[iguanaman]

okay.. lets assume that the mortgage crisis started in late 2004 for giggles...

NOW.. please provide evidence that:

George Bush forced people to buy homes that they could not afford in 2004
George Bush forced mortgage companies to loan money to people to buy houses they could not afford in 2004

George Bush forced investment companies to transform these bad loans into seemingly good investments and sell them to the public in 2004
George Bush forced insurance companies to rate these bad investments as AAA rated even though they were made up of junk mortgages in 2004.

If you cannot.. then your premise is simply wrong.

Get to it Vern.. we are all waiting.

The questions are ridiculous. You should be asking why Bush did not stop the banks from writing loans the buyers could not afford and why did Bush allow banks to take those bad loans and resell them as AAA? You also could also ask why Bush stopped the States from regulating those predatory loans with their own laws.

 

[Cephus]

I did lay the blame at Clinton's feet...and at the Republicans who passed the bill with a veto-proof majority. And when it comes to Bush, he inherited an economy with a budget surplus and no wars, and by the time he was done, we were losing 800K jobs per month and a record deficit (and two wars). So don't try to sugar-coat what Bush 43 did. His dad was a very good president - very underrated IMO (and Obama said the same thing) - but Dubya...he was truly a crappy president...but then, he was nothing more than a product of what the GOP had become.

Nobody is defending Bush, he's an asshole, but the fact remains that no matter what he inherited, he also inherited the structural problems that caused the 2008 crash to occur. He didn't make it happen, he got that from the Clinton era.

 

[iguanaman]

Both me and Glen laid some of the blame on Clinton.

And on the other side of that 'blame' coin there are many here who refuse to blame the Republicans in Congress. Phill Gramm is a name many who refuse to blame any Republican need to look up and see what his role was in the bubble and crash. Also people may want to see how big of a role Mr. Gramm had in the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.

BTW Ted Cruz wanted Gramm as his economic adverser. Yet another reason I Thank God Ted Cruz is out of the race. Of all the candidates IMO Cruz might have been the most dangerous, even more so then Trump. And that's saying a lot.

I bet you can't guess what ole Phil is up to now. He is on the Board of UBS bank of course... a well earned job for sure, if he wasn't already employed by them while in office too.

 

[Cephus]

Both me and Glen laid some of the blame on Clinton.

And on the other side of that 'blame' coin there are many here who refuse to blame the Republicans in Congress. Phill Gramm is a name many who refuse to blame any Republican need to look up and see what his role was in the bubble and crash. Also people may want to see how big of a role Mr. Gramm had in the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.

BTW Ted Cruz wanted Gramm as his economic adverser. Yet another reason I Thank God Ted Cruz is out of the race. Of all the candidates IMO Cruz might have been the most dangerous, even more so then Trump. And that's saying a lot.

Of course, none of this addresses what I originally responded to, the claim that Bush was somehow responsible for the crash. He was not. It happened on his watch, but the causes came before he was ever around. That's what I said and I got a bunch of liberals jumping down my throat because they don't want to accept any blame whatsoever for their side of the aisle.

 

[iguanaman]

Nobody is defending Bush, he's an asshole, but the fact remains that no matter what he inherited, he also inherited the structural problems that caused the 2008 crash to occur. He didn't make it happen, he got that from the Clinton era.

So you are denying that this....HUD Archives: President George W. Bush Speaks to HUD Employees on National Homeownership Month (6/18/02)

And this....Eliot Spitzer - Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime

ever happened? Because both of those links point to DIRECT ACTIONS Bush made that supported the formation of the housing bubble during his term.

 

[Fenton]

So you are denying that this....HUD Archives: President George W. Bush Speaks to HUD Employees on National Homeownership Month (6/18/02)

And this....Eliot Spitzer - Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime

ever happened? Because both of those links point to DIRECT ACTIONS Bush made that supported the formation of the housing bubble during his term.

2000....
Fannie Mae to Meet $1 Trillion Goal Early; CEO Raines Launches Ten-Year $2 Trillion ?American Dream

 

[Fenton]

jaeger, you cant even accept the fact that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004. You've repeatedly shown you don't care what the facts are.

1993...
Jim Johnson 1 Trillion dollar commitment
CHAIRMAN AND CEO JIM JOHNSON SAYS FANNIE MAE'S TRILLION DOLLAR COMMITMENT ALREADY SERVED ONE MILLION IN CITIES AND 500,000 FIRST-TIME HOME BUYERS THROUGH $57 BILLION OF INVESTMENT PLANS - Free Online Library

1997
FNMA Mission Statement detailing its massive purchase of MBSs and its underwriting initiaves to meet HUDs " affordable lending goals "
FannieMae Information Statement

2000.....
Franlkin Raines celebrates reaching FNMA's Trillion dollar goal early. Vows to comkit 2 Trillion more to the purchase of " Affordable loans "
Fannie Mae to Meet $1 Trillion Goal Early; CEO Raines Launches Ten-Year $2 Trillion ?American Dream

 

[eohrnberger]

Both me and Glen laid some of the blame on Clinton.

And on the other side of that 'blame' coin there are many here who refuse to blame the Republicans in Congress. Phill Gramm is a name many who refuse to blame any Republican need to look up and see what his role was in the bubble and crash. Also people may want to see how big of a role Mr. Gramm had in the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.

BTW Ted Cruz wanted Gramm as his economic adverser. Yet another reason I Thank God Ted Cruz is out of the race. Of all the candidates IMO Cruz might have been the most dangerous, even more so then Trump. And that's saying a lot.

Its fair that some of the blame goes to Clinton, just it's fair that some of the blame goes to Bush and Republicans in congress. However, you are missing the Democrats in congress, I think.

Further, there's the entire value chain from origination of a subprime mortgage, most notably NINJA mortgages, all the way to their traunching and being sold as securities with AAA ratings. All that subterfuge can't be ignored either.

Everything was just great while everyone was making money. The trouble started with the music stopped and there were chairs missing, then the wheels came off the wagon and the house of cards collapsed in on itself. All it took was just one to start it, that's how precarious the entire thing was.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Nobody is defending Bush, he's an asshole, but the fact remains that no matter what he inherited, he also inherited the structural problems that caused the 2008 crash to occur. He didn't make it happen, he got that from the Clinton era.

Are you actually trying to claim that Bush 43 shares none of the blame for the Great Recession that consumed the last 13 months of his presidency???? That nothing he did in the previous seven years had anything to do with it????

Guy, get real!

Factcheck.org did a pretty good job IMO of showing all the major players who share the blame for the Great Recession:

The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

Yes, Clinton's there. And so is Bush. And Alan Greenspan. And Wall Street. And most of the rest of us. But please don't try to peddle the fiction that Dubya doesn't share a significant portion of the blame, especially since he was handed a budget surplus and fritter that away in no time!

 

[eohrnberger]

I bet you can't guess what ole Phil is up to now. He is on the Board of UBS bank of course... a well earned job for sure, if he wasn't already employed by them while in office too.

Very likely. Wonderful how that works, isn't it? Of course, to be fair, there are probably a number of Democrats that are just as deep in other special interest's pockets, so nothing new there. Only solution I see is enforcing term limits.