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10 years after the Bush Mortgage Bubble, mortgage defaults finally back to normal

Fledermaus said:
One cannot lay the blame for what happened on Bush alone...

Did he write, sign or somehow influence the laws leading to the debacle that were in effect long before he took office?

No.

Did he force any bank to take sub-prime loans?

No.

And there is a whole hell of a lot more nos to the story...
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Fled, thank you for your assurances that I just cant be right. You know this isn't a chat room right? I'm sure "nuh uh" is a devastating rebuttal in a chat room but in a debate forum, not so much. And fled, Bush preempting all state laws against predatory lending didn't happen before "long before he took office". That happened about 3 years after he took office. then a funny thing happened. No doc loans went from 4% of all loans in 2004 to about 50% in 2006. Let that soak in. In 2006, about 50% of all loans were No Doc loans. You cant stop checking the borrowers ability to repay the loan until you preempt all state laws against predatory lending and federal regulators let you.

"Another form of easing facilitated the rapid rise of mortgages that didn't require borrowers to fully document their incomes. In 2006, these low- or no-doc loans comprised 81 percent of near-prime, 55 percent of jumbo, 50 percent of subprime and 36 percent of prime securitized mortgages."

http://www.dallasfed.org/assets/documents/research/eclett/2007/el0711.pdf

Just so you know, "another form of easing" is a nicer way of saying "dramatically lower lending standards".
 
Vern said:
Fled, thank you for your assurances that I just cant be right. You know this isn't a chat room right? I'm sure "nuh uh" is a devastating rebuttal in a chat room but in a debate forum, not so much. And fled, Bush preempting all state laws against predatory lending didn't happen before "long before he took office". That happened about 3 years after he took office. then a funny thing happened. No doc loans went from 4% of all loans in 2004 to about 50% in 2006. Let that soak in. In 2006, about 50% of all loans were No Doc loans. You cant stop checking the borrowers ability to repay the loan until you preempt all state laws against predatory lending and federal regulators let you.

"Another form of easing facilitated the rapid rise of mortgages that didn't require borrowers to fully document their incomes. In 2006, these low- or no-doc loans comprised 81 percent of near-prime, 55 percent of jumbo, 50 percent of subprime and 36 percent of prime securitized mortgages."

http://www.dallasfed.org/assets/documents/research/eclett/2007/el0711.pdf

Just so you know, "another form of easing" is a nicer way of saying "dramatically lower lending standards".
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And more that does not address the core causes of the event....

Carry on... Partisan Politics at it's finest.
 
Fledermaus said:
I was referring to your rather ignorant take on who was to blame.
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You sure you weren't responding the post where a poster blames the "democratic congress". mmmmm, that's not really simplistic and flawed. That just hilariously false because republicans controlled congress.
 
Fledermaus said:
And more that does not address the core causes of the event....

Carry on... Partisan Politics at it's finest.
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ooooo Fled, I'm posting clear straight forward posts and backing them up with solid factual links. You're simply posting "nuh uh". That's as partisan as it gets. Oh, before you go, let give you a going away present. Here's the home prices of Nevada, one of the four bubble states. Does that look like a bubble to you?

Nevada.jpg
 
Fledermaus said:
One cannot lay the blame for what happened on Bush alone...

Did he write, sign or somehow influence the laws leading to the debacle that were in effect long before he took office?

No.

Did he force any bank to take sub-prime loans?

No.

And there is a whole hell of a lot more nos to the story...
Click to expand...

Actually it was Phil Gramm that wrote those laws and they were supported by every Republican in Congress too. Bill Clinton didn't even sign until Bush was declared President. Bush did force the States to allow the Commercial banks to violate their laws on predatory mortgages too. Most States had laws that did not allow banks to write mortgages that the buyer could not afford.
 
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Vern said:
You sure you weren't responding the post where a poster blames the "democratic congress". mmmmm, that's not really simplistic and flawed. That just hilariously false because republicans controlled congress.
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No, you and you alone...

You appear to believe Bush was some superman who could control all things economy related....
 
Fledermaus said:
No, you and you alone...

You appear to believe Bush was some superman who could control all things economy related....
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...and do so while being dumb as a box of rocks at the same time. The things he did with an IQ of 70 are just amazing - running circles around all the democrats who tried, really tried to keep us out of trouble on this housing bubble thingy...like Barney Frank. He did his level best, but Bush just outsmarted him.
 
humbolt said:
...and do so while being dumb as a box of rocks at the same time. The things he did with an IQ of 70 are just amazing - running circles around all the democrats who tried, really tried to keep us out of trouble on this housing bubble thingy...like Barney Frank. He did his level best, but Bush just outsmarted him.
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Zactly.....
 
gdgyva said:
are you really that dishonest to blame the entire mortgage crisis on one party, and one president?

you dont think the other side had any culpability?
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ksu_aviator said:
I think it is more than a little disingenuous to call it the Bush Mortgage Bubble.
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guys, I'm posting clear straight forward points and I back them up with solid factual links. To post (and I'm paraphrasing here) "nuh uh" without addressing the facts I've posted is not really a good example of my integrity. Banks simply could not stop checking the borrower's ability to repay the loan until Bush preempted all state laws against predatory lending. I'll let all 50 states AGs and banking supervisors explain why preempting all state laws against predatory lending is bad.


"Concentrating regulatory control at the OCC ensures that regulatory and consumer protection problems that emerge will be solved with a one-size fits all approach," CSBS President and CEO Neil Milner wrote in his comment letter, adding that the proposed rule would concentrate regulatory power in the hands of a single individual, the Comptroller, with virtually no direct congressional oversight until problems or scandals emerge

States Unite to Fight Sweeping OCC Preemption
 
Cephus said:
And this has what to do with Bush? He wasn't in Congress. He wasn't the President. How is this the *BUSH* Bubble? He had nothing whatsoever to do with starting it.
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er uh Cephus, Bush was president when he preempted all state laws against predatory lending. he was president when he relaxed the net capital rule for investment banks. hey, how's that explanation of how the repeal of GS is coming affected mortgage lending standards coming? remember I asked you to explain it when you said it was to blame.
 
Vern said:
guys, I'm posting clear straight forward points and I back them up with solid factual links. To post (and I'm paraphrasing here) "nuh uh" without addressing the facts I've posted is not really a good example of my integrity. Banks simply could not stop checking the borrower's ability to repay the loan until Bush preempted all state laws against predatory lending. I'll let all 50 states AGs and banking supervisors explain why preempting all state laws against predatory lending is bad.


"Concentrating regulatory control at the OCC ensures that regulatory and consumer protection problems that emerge will be solved with a one-size fits all approach," CSBS President and CEO Neil Milner wrote in his comment letter, adding that the proposed rule would concentrate regulatory power in the hands of a single individual, the Comptroller, with virtually no direct congressional oversight until problems or scandals emerge

States Unite to Fight Sweeping OCC Preemption
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Vern

you are one of the most biased posters on this board

that you cant see that fact doesnt surprise me

have fun with your partisan thread hackery

trying to blame the entire mortgage crisis on one president, when countless books have been written saying that there is enough blame to pass around is just plain nutz

i am out....
 
gdgyva said:
Vern

you are one of the most biased posters on this board

that you cant see that fact doesnt surprise me

have fun with your partisan thread hackery

trying to blame the entire mortgage crisis on one president, when countless books have been written saying that there is enough blame to pass around is just plain nutz

i am out....
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I don't mean to be a bother gdgyva but whining about me doesn't address the facts I've posted. If I'm going to totally honest here, I think its really a dishonest attempt to deflect from the facts I've posted. And gdgyva, just so you know "countless books and editorials" have been written to say to say just what you want to believe. But remember when you used to believe "bush tried to stop it" or " its all Barny Frank's fault". so instead of assuring me I'm wrong, why not address the facts I've posted.
 
Vern said:
I don't mean to be a bother gdgyva but whining about me doesn't address the facts I've posted. If I'm going to totally honest here, I think its really a dishonest attempt to deflect from the facts I've posted. And gdgyva, just so you know "countless books and editorials" have been written to say to say just what you want to believe. But remember when you used to believe "bush tried to stop it" or " its all Barny Frank's fault". so instead of assuring me I'm wrong, why not address the facts I've posted.
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Partizan hackery.....
 
humbolt said:
...and do so while being dumb as a box of rocks at the same time. The things he did with an IQ of 70 are just amazing - running circles around all the democrats who tried, really tried to keep us out of trouble on this housing bubble thingy...like Barney Frank. He did his level best, but Bush just outsmarted him.
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er uh humbolt, pardon my chuckles but who's making the case the Bush Mortgage Bubble was the work of some evil genius. an IQ of 70 would perfectly explain why Bush preempted all state laws against predatory lending after everybody (but the banks who told him to do it) said it would be bad.

The Conference of State Bank Supervisors (CSBS) along with a number of prominent organizations, including the National Governors Association (NGA), the National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG), the National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), and the North America Securities Administrators Association (NASAA), have voiced their opposition to the OCC's proposed rule that would effectively preempt all state laws that apply to the activities of national banks and their state-licensed subsidiaries. The groups are asking OCC to withdraw the controversial proposal.

States Unite to Fight Sweeping OCC Preemption

And actually humbolt, if he listened to barney, there wouldn't have been a Bush Mortgage Bubble because Barney introduced legislation to roll back Bush's preemption of all state laws against predatory lending. Sadly it died in the republican congress. So Humbolt, I agree with you, Bush was as dumb as a box of rocks.
 
Vern said:
er uh humbolt, pardon my chuckles but who's making the case the Bush Mortgage Bubble was the work of some evil genius. an IQ of 70 would perfectly explain why Bush preempted all state laws against predatory lending after everybody (but the banks who told him to do it) said it would be bad.

The Conference of State Bank Supervisors (CSBS) along with a number of prominent organizations, including the National Governors Association (NGA), the National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG), the National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), and the North America Securities Administrators Association (NASAA), have voiced their opposition to the OCC's proposed rule that would effectively preempt all state laws that apply to the activities of national banks and their state-licensed subsidiaries. The groups are asking OCC to withdraw the controversial proposal.

States Unite to Fight Sweeping OCC Preemption

And actually humbolt, if he listened to barney, there wouldn't have been a Bush Mortgage Bubble because Barney introduced legislation to roll back Bush's preemption of all state laws against predatory lending. Sadly it died in the republican congress. So Humbolt, I agree with you, Bush was as dumb as a box of rocks.
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Barney introduced that legislation in 2007. Remind me again when the collapse happened? Oh yeah. 2007.
 
Just to let everyone know, this thread is essentially the same posts recycled.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...-bush-mortgage-bubble-faqs-w-1083-1531-a.html

I doubt that this thread will cover any new ground that the last one didn't.

As far as trying to get Vern to see the light of reason, I've given up on that. I suggest that you do also, if only to maintain control of your blood pressure and sanity.
 
The problem wasn't either Republicans or Democrats. There are enough people involved from either party that it's hard to draw lines that way. Who is to blame though? The ****ing corporatists. From repealing GS to greasing the skids for the whole sub prime fiasco. Banks knew there was money to be made when you can dump loans on the federal government after riding it for a few (the most interest yielding) years. They didn't care. They lobbied to make it possible, cashed in, and even got a bailout in the deal when they ended up on the hook for more than they planned. All made possible by our corporate dominated political process.
 
shagg said:
The problem wasn't either Republicans or Democrats. There are enough people involved from either party that it's hard to draw lines that way. Who is to blame though? The ****ing corporatists. From repealing GS to greasing the skids for the whole sub prime fiasco. Banks knew there was money to be made when you can dump loans on the federal government after riding it for a few (the most interest yielding) years. They didn't care. They lobbied to make it possible, cashed in, and even got a bailout in the deal when they ended up on the hook for more than they planned. All made possible by our corporate dominated political process.
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Nonsense

The Subprime fiasco is rooted in unprecedented Govt intervention via Clintons new regulations that forced lenders to abandon their lending standards and the Govt co-opting of the GSEs into buying massive amounts trash loans.

Those loans were then turned into securities by the GSEs and sold off as " AAA " securities to capital markets all over the world

By 2000 Fannie and Freddie purchased a Trillion dollars in " affordable lending " loans, and from there on were run by a bunch of corrupt Clinton appointees

" Corporatism " ? No, unprecedented Govt corruption and interference
 
shagg said:
The problem wasn't either Republicans or Democrats. There are enough people involved from either party that it's hard to draw lines that way. Who is to blame though? The ****ing corporatists. From repealing GS to greasing the skids for the whole sub prime fiasco. Banks knew there was money to be made when you can dump loans on the federal government after riding it for a few (the most interest yielding) years. They didn't care. They lobbied to make it possible, cashed in, and even got a bailout in the deal when they ended up on the hook for more than they planned. All made possible by our corporate dominated political process.
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Yep.. That's a big part of it. Since the 70's the banks, and Wall street were lobbying and spent MILLIONS in DC for deregulation and for the repeal of bills like Glass-Steagall. Thanks to the Republicans in Congress, and Bill Clinton signing what was put in front of him, by the 90's that lobbying and the millions paid off.
 
humbolt said:
Barney introduced that legislation in 2007. Remind me again when the collapse happened? Oh yeah. 2007.
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Er uh Humbolt, help me understand why you think I’m posting about something from 2007. I stated Barney’s bill died in the republican congress. Certainly even you could figure out I’m not referring to something from 2007. But Humbolt pretending I’m talking about something from 2007 doesn’t address the Conference of State Bank Supervisors (CSBS), the National Governors Association (NGA), the National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG), the National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), and the North America Securities Administrators Association (NASAA) begging Bush not to preempt all state laws against predatory lending. That was the main point of my reply to your “bush is dumb as a box of rocks” narrative. Oh I get it now, you’re trying to deflect from the fact that I confirmed your “bush is dumb as a box of rocks” narrative . Anyhoo, here’s the bill from barney in 2004 that died in the republican congress.

H.R. 5251 (108th): Preservation of Federalism in Banking Act

Preservation of Federalism in Banking Act (2004; 108th Congress H.R. 5251) - GovTrack.us

so we can continue to discuss your “bush is dumb as a box of rocks” narrative if you want.
 
eohrnberger said:
As far as trying to get Vern to see the light of reason, I've given up on that. I suggest that you do also, if only to maintain control of your blood pressure and sanity.
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Oh eohrn, you do make me laugh. “the light of reason” you refer to was just you repeating “nuh uh” over and over, arguing with me when I explained Bush was not president in 2000 (and you were quite snarky when you hilariously think you proved Bush was president in 2000) and telling me “loans to qualified minorities leads to toxic mortgages”. So obviously you have a special definition of “the light of reason”. And eohrn, I cant help it people don’t want to discuss the fact that mortgage defaults have finally receded to pre Bush Mortgage Bubble levels. It seems conservatives just want to flail at the facts like you do. Is that what you mean by “the light of reason”?

eohrnberger said:
Ahem, the date on the letter is May 5, 2000.
Letter from John D. Hawke, Jr., Comptroller of the Currency - May 5, 2000

Last I recall, Bush was in office as of Jan 2000.
In office January 20, 2001 – January 20, 2009 George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bzzzz. Try again..
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SenorXm/Sirius said:
Yep.. That's a big part of it. Since the 70's the banks, and Wall street were lobbying and spent MILLIONS in DC for deregulation and for the repeal of bills like Glass-Steagall. Thanks to the Republicans in Congress, and Bill Clinton signing what was put in front of him, by the 90's that lobbying and the millions paid off.
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But even with all those "reforms" the housing scam and the resulting bubble would not have been possible without a willing partner in the Whitehouse and certainly GW Bush fit the bill. Like Eliot Sptizer said....

Even though predatory lending was becoming a national problem, the Bush administration looked the other way and did nothing to protect American homeowners. In fact, the government chose instead to align itself with the banks that were victimizing consumers.
Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis. This threat was so clear that as New York attorney general, I joined with colleagues in the other 49 states in attempting to fill the void left by the federal government. Individually, and together, state attorneys general of both parties brought litigation or entered into settlements with many subprime lenders that were engaged in predatory lending practices. Several state legislatures, including New York's, enacted laws aimed at curbing such practices.
What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge? As Americans are now painfully aware, with hundreds of thousands of homeowners facing foreclosure and our markets reeling, the answer is a resounding no.
Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.
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Eliot Spitzer - Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime
 
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