‘That hurts.’ Black students fail state tests in English, math, amid high graduation rates

[Mashmont]

It would be more effective to not imprison so many Black men for non-violent offenses and attract decent jobs to the poverty ridden, heavily segregated ghettos they live in.

The President Trump was your man. He reduced black unemployment to unprecedented low levels. You should be asking how he did it.

 

[TurtleDude]

It would be more effective to not imprison so many Black men for non-violent offenses and attract decent jobs to the poverty ridden, heavily segregated ghettos they live in.

the war on drugs is one of the major problem creators for black society in the USA.

 

[TurtleDude]

Some teachers care. Some don't. Some are ideological activists who definitely don't care are kids.

true, some are union activists

 

[HenryChinaski]

It absolutely is true. Take Columbus Public Schools for example. The students are predominately black and it has a mammoth budget of over $1 billion. It spends 77% more per pupil than the State average. But the academic performance of their students is still so bad that they’re facing a State takeover. Money is not the issue.

All of the studies around student vouchers, back when that was still a debate, proved that placing kids in new schools perceived to be “better” had no impact on academic performance. Schools are not the issue.

This is from your link and jives with the points that I made,

Researchers found that high-poverty districts serving mostly students of color receive about $1,600 less per student than the national average. That's while school districts that are predominately white and poor receive about $130 less.

"We have built a school funding system that is reliant on geography, and therefore the school funding system has inherited all of the historical ills of where we have forced and incentivized people to live," she says.

Funding means current text books, modern learning tools, updated or at least working computers, copiers, proper seating and desks that aren't broken, office supplies, hell funding means working AC, heat and a simple meal for students in many schools. All of these basic necessities impact education.

 

[Napoleon]

This is from your link and jives with the points that I made,

Researchers found that high-poverty districts serving mostly students of color receive about $1,600 less per student than the national average. That's while school districts that are predominately white and poor receive about $130 less.

"We have built a school funding system that is reliant on geography, and therefore the school funding system has inherited all of the historical ills of where we have forced and incentivized people to live," she says.

Funding means current text books, modern learning tools, updated or at least working computers, copiers, proper seating and desks that aren't broken, office supplies, hell funding means working AC, heat and a simple meal for students many schools.

That was your link not mine. I gave you an example of the truth. 77% more in funding than the State average and still abysmal academic performance. How do you explain that?

 

[nvflash]

Ooooooooo.......Kayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy....

Can you expand on that a little bit please?

No, because someone would have to explain it to me first!

I just figured I cut right to the chase and play the race card, because I'm sure white liberals will explain it.

 

[HenryChinaski]

That was your link not mine. I gave you an example of the truth. 77% more in funding than the State average and still abysmal academic performance. How do you explain that?

I stand corrected, though it wasn't my link either. The point however still stands.

 

[TurtleDude]

It absolutely is true. Take Columbus Public Schools for example. The students are predominately black and it has a mammoth budget of over $1 billion. It spends 77% more per pupil than the State average. But the academic performance of their students is still so bad that they’re facing a State takeover. Money is not the issue.

All of the studies around student vouchers, back when that was still a debate, proved that placing kids in new schools perceived to be “better” had no impact on academic performance. Schools are not the issue. The issue is a chronic dismissal of education in the black community.

Cincinnati Public schools which (save the magnet school Walnut hills) are predominantly black, spend more than some nearby public schools such as Norwood, per pupil yet the achievement level is lower. CPS also spends more than the Cincinnati Archdiocese schools such as Purcell-Marian, and St Ursula and again the achievement is much lower. there are both economic and cultural reasons behind this discrepancy

 

[trouble13]

What societal pressures cause teachers to pass those students?

I had a conversation about something very similiar last summer with a teacher. We we talking about the lock downs and I asked her about schools. I asked how they were handling all the missed time for students and if they were going to hold people back for not completing the curriculum.

She unequivocally told me she was passing everyone and so was all the other teachers.

I was kinda shocked by that and asked her why and this was her answer:

She said the stigma of being left back was far more destructive to the student than them not learning the material.

If that is the pervasive opinion in the teaching community it is not a stretch to think they are graduating kids who are not up to the standard because they believe its for the students own good.

I personally think she was full of shit and passes subpar students to make her look good but I can not prove that. Its just my opinion.

 

[trouble13]

Often this works the other way. A teacher has students who don't put in the work. Often it is due to problems at home or having to work, and the teacher just feels that he or he can't fail them all. The system won't let them - there isn't room in the schools for so many failures with new students moving up.

see post #109 for my response

 

[bomberfox]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hurts-black-students-fail-state-100000844.html

""A majority of Black students in Miami-Dade County Public Schools are failing state tests in English Language Arts, math and science, despite graduation rates topping 85 percent.

In 2019, just 40 percent of Black students in grades 3 through 10 passed the FSA English language arts exams compared to 61% of Hispanic students and 77 percent of white students.

For the FSA math exam that same year, just 44 percent of Black students in grades 3 through 8 passed compared to 63% of Hispanic students and 78% of white students.
Gallon juxtaposed those dismal scores with soaring graduation rates. The graduation rate for Black students in Miami-Dade Schools was 85.6% in the 2019-2020 school year. That rate was 90.3% for Hispanic students and 92.5% for white students. The district’s average was 89.6%.""
************

I wonder why there is such a disparity in the percentages of students that are able to pass the standardized tests?
When 40% of graduating students can pass a HS level English test...its going to put a damper on your prospects in life.

I am not sure what can be done specifically to improve those numbers. At least some of the disparity has got to be from influence inside the "home".
You can blame the schools and teachers, but in the same school other demographics of students are doing just fine.

How does society fix this? Or can it be fixed by society?

If people from certain backgrounds--whether they be racial, ethnic, religious, cultural, single-family, drug abuse, etc.--are showing statistically worse educational outcomes, I think society has a responsibility to step in and provide resources and guidance to children from those backgrounds. Doesn't matter if they are inner-city black kids or rural poor white kids. The parents of these children often don't know any better, are poor role models, and/or lack the resources to help the kids themselves, and the children themselves obviously are not to blame.

The fact that in most states schools are funded from local property taxes is one of the biggest contributors to social immobility. How is a kid who grows up in a poor neighborhood ever supposed to compete with a kid who grows up in a gated McMansion suburb?

yeah we need to find a better system of school funding than property taxes. Tying property values to the amount of resources a state can gather for these things has caused a lot of strife in America, especially pre-civil rights.

 

[jimbo]

We could start actually providing an equal public education system where all students have access to the same academic tools.

Are you suggesting all students don't?

Where I live schools were desegregated decades ago. All students sit in the same classrooms with the same teachers, getting the same lessons and the same homework. So it must be something else.

 

[mrjurrs]

The numbers are from demographics of kids that are in the exact same schools though. Its the Miami Dade public school district.
How can there be such a disparity in different groups of kids in the same schools?

And what you said is very vague. "Provide equal public education system where all students have the same tools". These students are all from the same district.

Is that a serious question? Go to your local school district. Look at the areas the individual schools serve. While schools within a district receive the same amount of funding from the district and the state, the needs of some schools are not met because they have different populations. Look at schools with different ESL and SPED needs.

 

[trouble13]

The public demands too much from its police and its teachers.

Read "The Prize" by Dale Russakoff. Its about Zuckerberg donating millions to improve Newark schools. The book talks about consultants and experts gobbling up all the money and doing nothing, while teachers work long hours with few resources and make a significant difference in the lives of their students.

Want to fix education? Put teachers in charge. They are the only ones who really care. They see what goes on on the ground.

If teachers really cared they would not be on strike right now

 

[bomberfox]

Every one of your posts, you imply that blacks are inferior and you think your clever about it.
A seat at what table? You're not part of a demographic that until a generation ago could ride where the want on a bus or drink from any fountain they wish. You're not a member of a race that were terrorized and murdered on a whim by "white European males".
You're not a member of a race that until not long ago were victims of racist housing and zoning policies nationwide and couldn't purchase property where they choose.
You post as a dude who feels inadequate and is struggling with your own shortcomings in life and by focusing on "white European" identity as some sort of superior trait to be "proud of", that helps you cope with whatever you've ****ed up in your life.
Instead if playing victim, do something productive to actually be proud of because your skin color means dick.

Black people tried to build generational wealth in black wall street, that was bombed via aircraft.

 

[TurtleDude]

yeah we need to find a better system of school funding than property taxes. Tying property values to the amount of resources a state can gather for these things has caused a lot of strife in America, especially pre-civil rights.

many people will properly object to that on the grounds that one of the reasons why they save to move to higher property tax areas is for better schools. Young parents tend to support increases on property taxes while those who are empty-nesters do not. If my property taxes are going to be spread out around the state, I am far less likely to support increases than if it goes to the school were my son graduated.

 

[americanwoman]

But see, Catholic moral teaching would get black moms to become more selective with whom they have sex. It would be guys who would marry them. That provides the stability and income to close these educational gaps.
Always look for the moral. It will lead you to the practical.

While I agree a strong family unit is key to a successful student, I disagree religion is the foundation for that and for the educational gaps we are seeing.

I understand you must hate the United States and our constitution to not be able to mandate state sponsored religion in school but it is what it is.

 

[bomberfox]

Through patience, perseverance, hard work, and love. No, we're not going to cut funding to public schools or other help and tell them to just go "pick themselves up by the bootstraps", if that's what you were hoping for.

We have already made much progress. The average IQ of African Americans today is higher than the average IQ of whites in the 1940s.

It took centuries of really bad stuff to get here. It's gonna take some time to fix it, conservative policies notwithstanding.

This is why i dont believe in the essential innate IQ hypothesis.

 

[Mashmont]

While I agree a strong family unit is key to a successful student, I disagree religion is the foundation for that and for the educational gaps we are seeing.

I understand you must hate the United States and our constitution to not be able to mandate state sponsored religion in school but it is what it is.

We have state sponsored atheism now. Since you’re apparently fine with that, you must hate The United States.

 

[TurtleDude]

Through patience, perseverance, hard work, and love. No, we're not going to cut funding to public schools or other help and tell them to just go "pick themselves up by the bootstraps", if that's what you were hoping for.

We have already made much progress. The average IQ of African Americans today is higher than the average IQ of whites in the 1940s.

It took centuries of really bad stuff to get here. It's gonna take some time to fix it, conservative policies notwithstanding.

what were those scores? was 100 average then and now?

 

[Da Mole]

W

So sorry that you're letting your entitlement get in the way. Let us know when you're ready to finally listen for a change.

Wouldn't you just know it was going to happen.? Won't admit the truth of why blacks are failing, instead blame so-called white privilege.

 

[americanwoman]

We have state sponsored atheism now. Since you’re apparently fine with that, you must hate The United States.

Lol that makes no sense and one you won't be able to prove.

 

[jimbo]

We have state sponsored atheism now. Since you’re apparently fine with that, you must hate The United States.

Where do we have state sponsored atheism?

 

[j brown's body]

I had a conversation about something very similiar last summer with a teacher. We we talking about the lock downs and I asked her about schools. I asked how they were handling all the missed time for students and if they were going to hold people back for not completing the curriculum.

She unequivocally told me she was passing everyone and so was all the other teachers.

I was kinda shocked by that and asked her why and this was her answer:

She said the stigma of being left back was far more destructive to the student than them not learning the material.

If that is the pervasive opinion in the teaching community it is not a stretch to think they are graduating kids who are not up to the standard because they believe its for the students own good.

I personally think she was full of shit and passes subpar students to make her look good but I can not prove that. Its just my opinion.

I'm trying to find some balance. failing more because they did little or nothing, but passing some who did a marginal amount. I don't do this because of the stigma, but because I know the there just isn't any place to put them if they are held back.

Teachers are stuck between an administration that that wants them to cover material and not teach critical thinking and a population who wants their kids to have good grades and pass.

I have been fortunate to have a supportive administration, so I try and teach my students important reading and writing skills. I always try and make my lessons just a tad beyond their reach - enough to challenge them but not so much that they quit. They resist this because they have always been moved along by simply turning in filled in answer sheets. So I have to bend a bit at times and let them slide, but it really depends upon the kid. One who is motivated, has good habits and lives in a fairly stable household can do well. Its just hard to know.

But many teachers in marginal schools don't teach skills because they aren't expected to, aren't really trained to to it, and get a lot of resistance from parents, so they fall into this trap of going along and getting along.

There is a great line in Richard Russo's novel about a teachers that I think is so true: "Miss Beryl didn't know any teachers who weren't habitually guilty and depressed--guilty they hadn't accomplished more with their students, depressed that very little more was possible.”

 

[jimbo]

W


Wouldn't you just know it was going to happen.? Won't admit the truth of why blacks are failing, instead blame so-called white privilege.

And therein lies the problem. Until you identify the problem you cannot identify the solution.