Zelensky Publicly Rejected Trump’s Peace Plan (1 Viewer)

[anatta]

Zelensky Rejects Trump's Peace Plan, Preferring Total Victory Scenario

Even as talks progress and Trump says there is hope for a deal, Zelensky saying the Ukrainian constitution calls for total victory.

www.breitbart.com

Kyiv in recent days is far from complimentary about President Trump’s proposals. An American blueprint for peace in Ukraine was put before combatants this week and quickly rejected as politically impossible by Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, who cited the national constitution as making anything but total victory impossible. perhaps the greater stumbling block to achieving a workable peace agreement is President Zelensky’s insistence that he would do nothing in contradiction of the letter of the Ukrainian constitution.
the constitution states the nation’s borders are “indivisible and inviolable”, this essentially locks him and Ukraine into pushing for a maximalist total victory, with every square yard of the nation’s United Nations-recognised territory liberated. Three years of brutal fighting and hundreds of thousands of lives have yet to achieve this goal.

President Zelensky said of this position that he would accept only a total defeat of the Russian invasion, a peace on unobtainable terms: “Anything that contradicts our values or our Constitution cannot be included in any agreements”.

in the case of the Ukrainian government really wanting peace the constitution could be amended. But until that time comes, plenty more constitutionalist obstructions can be found, such as any changes to the document needing to be ratified by a national referendum, and elections being impossible under wartime conditions and martial law, which is also Zelensky’s rationale for not having had to face re-election yet.

 

[j brown's body]

The one Putin is said to have written?

I suspect if Russia had invaded our country, our ruler, even Trump himself, would say much the same thing.

 

[lynnwinslow]

Zelensky Rejects Trump's Peace Plan, Preferring Total Victory Scenario

Even as talks progress and Trump says there is hope for a deal, Zelensky saying the Ukrainian constitution calls for total victory.

www.breitbart.com

Kyiv in recent days is far from complimentary about President Trump’s proposals. An American blueprint for peace in Ukraine was put before combatants this week and quickly rejected as politically impossible by Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, who cited the national constitution as making anything but total victory impossible. perhaps the greater stumbling block to achieving a workable peace agreement is President Zelensky’s insistence that he would do nothing in contradiction of the letter of the Ukrainian constitution.
the constitution states the nation’s borders are “indivisible and inviolable”, this essentially locks him and Ukraine into pushing for a maximalist total victory, with every square yard of the nation’s United Nations-recognised territory liberated. Three years of brutal fighting and hundreds of thousands of lives have yet to achieve this goal.

President Zelensky said of this position that he would accept only a total defeat of the Russian invasion, a peace on unobtainable terms: “Anything that contradicts our values or our Constitution cannot be included in any agreements”.

in the case of the Ukrainian government really wanting peace the constitution could be amended. But until that time comes, plenty more constitutionalist obstructions can be found, such as any changes to the document needing to be ratified by a national referendum, and elections being impossible under wartime conditions and martial law, which is also Zelensky’s rationale for not having had to face re-election yet.

is that the one where Trump formally presents Crimea to Putin as a prize for attacking Ukraine?

 

[Tigerace117]

is that the one where Trump formally presents Crimea to Putin as a prize for attacking Ukraine?

You mean when the fact the Russians have held Crimea for well over a decade, the Ukrainians aren’t even remotely close to being able to “retake” it despite significant losses and all those fancy Western wunderwaffe, and most of the people there don’t even want to be a part of ukraien at this point is acknowledged?

I get the West is terrible at negotiations, but what, exactly, is the point of refusing to accept reality?

 

[lynnwinslow]

You mean when the fact the Russians have held Crimea for well over a decade, the Ukrainians aren’t even remotely close to being able to “retake” it despite significant losses and all those fancy Western wunderwaffe, and most of the people there don’t even want to be a part of ukraien at this point is acknowledged?

I get the West is terrible at negotiations, but what, exactly, is the point of refusing to accept reality?

Blah, blah, blah.

 

[Mycroft]

Zelensky Rejects Trump's Peace Plan, Preferring Total Victory Scenario

Even as talks progress and Trump says there is hope for a deal, Zelensky saying the Ukrainian constitution calls for total victory.

www.breitbart.com

Kyiv in recent days is far from complimentary about President Trump’s proposals. An American blueprint for peace in Ukraine was put before combatants this week and quickly rejected as politically impossible by Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, who cited the national constitution as making anything but total victory impossible. perhaps the greater stumbling block to achieving a workable peace agreement is President Zelensky’s insistence that he would do nothing in contradiction of the letter of the Ukrainian constitution.
the constitution states the nation’s borders are “indivisible and inviolable”, this essentially locks him and Ukraine into pushing for a maximalist total victory, with every square yard of the nation’s United Nations-recognised territory liberated. Three years of brutal fighting and hundreds of thousands of lives have yet to achieve this goal.

President Zelensky said of this position that he would accept only a total defeat of the Russian invasion, a peace on unobtainable terms: “Anything that contradicts our values or our Constitution cannot be included in any agreements”.

in the case of the Ukrainian government really wanting peace the constitution could be amended. But until that time comes, plenty more constitutionalist obstructions can be found, such as any changes to the document needing to be ratified by a national referendum, and elections being impossible under wartime conditions and martial law, which is also Zelensky’s rationale for not having had to face re-election yet.

Well, it sounds to me like Ukraine is screwed.

Maybe they should have thought about consequences before they started changing their constitution.

Sucks to be them.

 

[Tigerace117]

Blah, blah, blah.

Way to prove my point...

And run away from the question.

 

[Loulit01]

President Trump’s standing among Ukrainians is practically on life support. But many cheered one statement he made on Saturday after meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky, questioning why President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia would continue to pummel Ukraine as the United States is trying to broker peace talks.

“It makes me think that maybe he [Putin] doesn’t want to stop the war, he’s just tapping me along,” Mr. Trump wrote on Truth Social after meeting with Mr. Zelensky on the sidelines of Pope Francis’ funeral, adding that Mr. Putin may need to be “dealt with differently” — with more sanctions.

Trump’s Meeting With Zelensky Offers Ukrainians a Glimmer of Hope

The United States has been pushing Ukraine to accept a peace plan that seems in part a gift to Moscow. But the short meeting of the leaders, and subsequent comments, appeared to be a change in tone.

www.nytimes.com

At least Trump's blaming the right guy now.

 

[Sweden]

Well, it sounds to me like Ukraine is screwed.

Maybe they should have thought about consequences before they started changing their constitution.

Sucks to be them.

Despicable.

 

[MamboDervish]

Zelensky Publicly Rejected Trump’s Peace Plan​

Trump has no peace plan.

 

[VanceMack]

"making anything but total victory impossible"

Well...there ya go.....

 

[Rexedgar]

Zelensky Publicly Rejected Trump’s Peace Plan​

Trump has no peace plan.

I hear there is a concept………

 

[Lursa]

President Trump’s standing among Ukrainians is practically on life support. But many cheered one statement he made on Saturday after meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky, questioning why President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia would continue to pummel Ukraine as the United States is trying to broker peace talks.

“It makes me think that maybe he [Putin] doesn’t want to stop the war, he’s just tapping me along,” Mr. Trump wrote on Truth Social after meeting with Mr. Zelensky on the sidelines of Pope Francis’ funeral, adding that Mr. Putin may need to be “dealt with differently” — with more sanctions.

Trump’s Meeting With Zelensky Offers Ukrainians a Glimmer of Hope

The United States has been pushing Ukraine to accept a peace plan that seems in part a gift to Moscow. But the short meeting of the leaders, and subsequent comments, appeared to be a change in tone.

www.nytimes.com

At least Trump's blaming the right guy now.

'bout time mango MAGAt magnet started catching on to Putin using him.

 

[Roadvirus]

President Trump’s standing among Ukrainians is practically on life support. But many cheered one statement he made on Saturday after meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky, questioning why President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia would continue to pummel Ukraine as the United States is trying to broker peace talks.

“It makes me think that maybe he [Putin] doesn’t want to stop the war, he’s just tapping me along,” Mr. Trump wrote on Truth Social after meeting with Mr. Zelensky on the sidelines of Pope Francis’ funeral, adding that Mr. Putin may need to be “dealt with differently” — with more sanctions.

Trump’s Meeting With Zelensky Offers Ukrainians a Glimmer of Hope

The United States has been pushing Ukraine to accept a peace plan that seems in part a gift to Moscow. But the short meeting of the leaders, and subsequent comments, appeared to be a change in tone.

www.nytimes.com

At least Trump's blaming the right guy now.

For the time being. The voices in his head will tell him Ukraine is at fault again.

 

[MamboDervish]

I hear there is a concept………

Yeah .... the concept of a plan.

Ukraine gets nothing. No NATO, no Russian withdrawal, no guarantees that the expansionist aggressor Putin won't resume his land grab as soon as he regroups, refreshes and rearms his ground forces. Same shit, different day, take it or leave it.

Putin gets everything. No NATO presence on Ukrainian soil, all of his land grab to keep, and the freedom to launch rockets into the civilian capital with total impunity in preparation for his soon-to-be ongoing march to annex all of Ukraine to mother Russia.

Trump gets to spew impotent threats at both, shake his fist at the sky in kabuki theater with assertions that he wants peace, then back peddle his intentions by claiming he was joking, and head off somewhere for another 18 holes on the taxpayer's dime, all interspersed with a bucketful of lies for the American electorate.

 

[lynnwinslow]

Way to prove my point...

And run away from the question.

Your commitment to willful ignorance is weirdly impressive.

 

[Tigerace117]

Your commitment to willful ignorance is weirdly impressive.

Once again....

What, exactly, is the point of not facing up to reality?

Given Ukraine hasn’t held Crimea for over a decade, and at this point most of the people there don’t want to be a part of Ukraine anyway, what does acknowledging Russian control actually change?

 

[j brown's body]

You mean when the fact the Russians have held Crimea for well over a decade, the Ukrainians aren’t even remotely close to being able to “retake” it despite significant losses and all those fancy Western wunderwaffe, and most of the people there don’t even want to be a part of ukraien at this point is acknowledged?

I get the West is terrible at negotiations, but what, exactly, is the point of refusing to accept reality?

We understand Trump's view, thanks.

 

[Tigerace117]

Might makes right.

The standard American position of the last two hundred or so years. The “liberal order” is entirely based on the idea that the West’s might means they can do whatever they want to whomever they want, and everyone else is supposed to simply accept it.

Hence the outrage when countries refuse to do so.

 

[j brown's body]

President Trump’s standing among Ukrainians is practically on life support. But many cheered one statement he made on Saturday after meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky, questioning why President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia would continue to pummel Ukraine as the United States is trying to broker peace talks.

“It makes me think that maybe he [Putin] doesn’t want to stop the war, he’s just tapping me along,” Mr. Trump wrote on Truth Social after meeting with Mr. Zelensky on the sidelines of Pope Francis’ funeral, adding that Mr. Putin may need to be “dealt with differently” — with more sanctions.

Trump’s Meeting With Zelensky Offers Ukrainians a Glimmer of Hope

The United States has been pushing Ukraine to accept a peace plan that seems in part a gift to Moscow. But the short meeting of the leaders, and subsequent comments, appeared to be a change in tone.

www.nytimes.com

At least Trump's blaming the right guy now.

"After meeting with Zelensky." Whoever has his ear last...

 

[j brown's body]

The standard American position of the last two hundred or so years. The “liberal order” is entirely based on the idea that the West’s might means they can do whatever they want to whomever they want, and everyone else is supposed to simply accept it.

Hence the outrage when countries refuse to do so.

And your position here.

 

[Individual]

"making anything but total victory impossible"

Well...there ya go.....

I don't see total victory a possibility without other nations providing troops to fight.
Total loss could easily become the only possibility.

 

[KingLeo]

Good on Zelensky.
Trump has no 'peace plan' it is more a concession plan to Putin so Donnie can claim he did something.

 

[Tigerace117]

And your position here.

Still no answer to the questions I see.

 

[j brown's body]

Still no answer to the questions I see.

I oppose the position of "might makes right" whether its advocated by you or the US government.

I'm, at least, consistent.