Zelensky Publicly Rejected Trump’s Peace Plan (1 Viewer)

[craig]

because Z is losing ground. Because more US aid is at least in doubt, so it's better to give up Crimea ( which has been done de facto) and some eastern/south oblast territory..The problem now is Putin doesnt want to stop the war because he is "winning"
Z needs to stop making these unconditional statements

Putin is not winning. His country is collapsing. He can't even afford good internet trolls.

 

[j brown's body]

because Z is losing ground. Because more US aid is at least in doubt, so it's better to give up Crimea ( which has been done de facto) and some eastern/south oblast territory..The problem now is Putin doesnt want to stop the war because he is "winning"
Z needs to stop making these unconditional statements

Because might makes right.

The US could help Ukraine and Europe repel Russia.

Trump could seal his peace deal with a $50B arms sale to Ukraine

"The only way to stop Putin from doing this — and cement Trump’s legacy as a peacemaker — is to make sure Ukraine has a military deterrent so powerful that Russia would not dare attack again. A promise to sell U.S. weapons would give Ukraine confidence it could build that deterrent. Few countries possess the weapons systems Ukraine needs or the industrial capacity to produce them. And there is no doubt that China, Iran and North Korea — even if there is a peace agreement — will continue to provide robust assistance to Russia in preparation for its next attempt to conquer Ukraine."

 

[Lycanthrope]

Putin is not winning. His country is collapsing. He can't even afford good internet trolls.

Fortunately for Putin, Donald will let him go right on "tagging" him.

As good wee cucks do.

 

[anatta]

German defence minister says Ukraine should not agree to sweeping territorial concessions

Boris Pistorius says Boris Pistorius said Kyiv "should not go as far as the latest proposal by the American president".

www.bbc.com

On Friday, Reuters news agency reported that it had seen proposals from the US that included American legal acceptance of Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea and de facto recognition of Russian control of other occupied areas, including all of Luhansk in the east of the country.

Reuters says it has also seen a counter-proposals from Europe and Ukraine, which reportedly say the sides will only discuss what happens to occupied Ukrainian territory once a ceasefire has come into effect.
The US plan also rules out Ukraine's membership in the Nato military alliance and sees a UK-France led "coalition of the willing" providing a security guarantee once a ceasefire is in force without the involvement of the US.

Meanwhile the Europeans want the US to give "robust" guarantees in the form of a cast-iron Nato-style commitment to come to Ukraine's aid if it is attacked.
The US reportedly further proposes to take control of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant - currently occupied by Russia - which would then provide electricity to both Russia and Ukraine. The counter-plan makes no mention of giving Russia power.

In an interview with Time magazine this week, Trump once again blamed Kyiv for starting the war, citing its ambitions of joining Nato.
The US president also told Time: "Crimea will stay with Russia."

On Sunday, US Secretary of State Marco Rubio urged Russia and Ukraine to move forward to secure a peace deal.
"It needs to happen soon," Rubio told NBC. "We cannot continue to dedicate time and resources to this effort if it's not going to come to fruition."
The US has recently warned it would walk away from negotiations if progress was not made.

 

[anatta]

Because might makes right.

might wins wars. nothing to do with abstract "right and wrong"

 

[ModernDiogenes]

is that the one where Trump formally presents Crimea to Putin as a prize for attacking Ukraine?

They already have Crimea. Putin wants the entire eastern third of the nation, and won’t promise he won’t come back for more.

 

[j brown's body]

might wins wars. nothing to do with abstract "right and wrong"

Its a choice. The US could help Ukraine and Europe repel Russis very easily.

Trump could seal his peace deal with a $50B arms sale to Ukraine

"The only way to stop Putin from doing this — and cement Trump’s legacy as a peacemaker — is to make sure Ukraine has a military deterrent so powerful that Russia would not dare attack again. A promise to sell U.S. weapons would give Ukraine confidence it could build that deterrent. Few countries possess the weapons systems Ukraine needs or the industrial capacity to produce them. And there is no doubt that China, Iran and North Korea — even if there is a peace agreement — will continue to provide robust assistance to Russia in preparation for its next attempt to conquer Ukraine."

 

[dandolo2k]

Zelensky Rejects Trump's Peace Plan, Preferring Total Victory Scenario

Even as talks progress and Trump says there is hope for a deal, Zelensky saying the Ukrainian constitution calls for total victory.

www.breitbart.com

Kyiv in recent days is far from complimentary about President Trump’s proposals. An American blueprint for peace in Ukraine was put before combatants this week and quickly rejected as politically impossible by Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, who cited the national constitution as making anything but total victory impossible. perhaps the greater stumbling block to achieving a workable peace agreement is President Zelensky’s insistence that he would do nothing in contradiction of the letter of the Ukrainian constitution.
the constitution states the nation’s borders are “indivisible and inviolable”, this essentially locks him ....

President Zelensky said of this position that he would accept only a total defeat of the Russian invasion, a peace on unobtainable terms: “Anything that contradicts our values or our Constitution cannot be included in any agreements”.

in the case of the Ukrainian government really wanting peace the constitution could be amended.

But we all know that Zelensky and his European bosses don't want peace. This is obvious. He will stick with his "10 points peace plan" forever.

And if (!) for some unbelievable reasons Ukrainian military will succeed in driving Russians away from Donbass and Crimea , then this "constitution" will be instantly amended to include some new territories inside Russia, (which were of course inhabited by ancient Ukrainians from the times of Egyptian pharos !!!).
If will be discovered that Ukrainian constitution requires a regime change in Russia to eliminate "Russian threat" . The said "threat" will abide until Russia is totally balcanized and divided into subset of banana colonies. The same colonies that Ukraine represents today itself.

But until that time comes, plenty more constitutionalist obstructions can be found, such as any changes to the document needing to be ratified by a national referendum, and elections being impossible under wartime conditions and martial law, which is also Zelensky’s rationale for not having had to face re-election yet.

And the war will drag it's foot on and on. May be Z. of course hopes to get a temporary ceasefire to regroup and rearm it's military, conscript by force thousands more cannon fodder, import millions of new shells , get billions of new loans.

And after ther Ukraine will strike Donbass and Crimea again.
We know pretty well how easily this "constitution" is changed. For instance one of changes provides for total ban on any negotiations with Russia. I don't understand why everybody has forgotten this precious part of clown's constitution. Ukraine can not participate in any peace deal negotiations, it is against Ukrainian constitution !!

So this circus with Trump and Zelensky finally must be over .
Trump must move on , fetch his new secondary "nuclear" sanctions and stop playing these stupid games of "peace deal".

 

[craig]

But we all know that Zelensky and his European bosses don't want peace. This is obvious. He will stick with his "10 points peace plan" forever.

And if (!) for some unbelievable reasons Ukrainian military will succeed in driving Russians away from Donbass and Crimea , then this "constitution" will be instantly amended to include some new territories inside Russia, (which were of course inhabited by ancient Ukrainians from the times of Egyptian pharos !!!).
If will be discovered that Ukrainian constitution requires a regime change in Russia to eliminate "Russian threat" . The said "threat" will abide until Russia is totally balcanized and divided into subset of banana colonies. The same colonies that Ukraine represents today itself.

And the war will drag it's foot on and on. May be Z. of course hopes to get a temporary ceasefire to regroup and rearm it's military, conscript by force thousands more cannon fodder, import millions of new shells , get billions of new loans.

And after ther Ukraine will strike Donbass and Crimea again.
We know pretty well how easily this "constitution" is changed. For instance one of changes provides for total ban on any negotiations with Russia. I don't understand why everybody has forgotten this precious part of clown's constitution. Ukraine can not participate in any peace deal negotiations, it is against Ukrainian constitution !!

So this circus with Trump and Zelensky finally must be over .
Trump must move on , fetch his new secondary "nuclear" sanctions and stop playing these stupid games of "peace deal".

They want to keep their country, Wouldn't you?

 

[Roadvirus]

Zelensky needs to STFU because if we stop financing his war

He didn't start it. Putzin did.

Ingrateful asshole.

He's always been grateful to the U.S. & Europe for their assistance. But with Trump, it's been hard to be grateful because Trump has done nothing but treat Zelensky horrifically since Jan. 21st.

 

[dandolo2k]

They already have Crimea. Putin wants the entire eastern third of the nation, and won’t promise he won’t come back for more.

Why , why ? He, P. can promis everything, he can promis that he will never take any extra inch of Ukrainian land , just as European politicians promised to him and to Russia hundreds of times , that NATO will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER expand towards Russian borders , and all former soviet countries will remain totally neutral.

 

[dandolo2k]

They want to keep their country, Wouldn't you?

Of course , Russia also wants to keeps it's country, which includes all Ukraine by the way.
You have forgotten tha Ukraine has broke away illegally , dragging illegally Russian lands with itself.
But unfortunately Donbass does not want to be a part of Ukraine. In the same way as Ukraine in 1991 didn't want to be a part of Soviet Union.

 

[Roadvirus]

Europe can put up or shut up, What happens to Ukraine is their problem -not the USA's

And that is where you are wrong.

You're using tunnel vision & looking only short-term.
Open your eyes wider & look long-term. Say...the next 10 years.

 

[j brown's body]

Of course , Russia also wants to keeps it's country, which includes all Ukraine by the way.
You have forgotten tha Ukraine has broke away illegally , dragging illegally Russian lands with itself.

That's actually how this country got started. Broke away from the colonists.

 

[craig]

Of course , Russia also wants to keeps it's country, which includes all Ukraine by the way.
You have forgotten tha Ukraine has broke away illegally , dragging illegally Russian lands with itself.

Ukraine's independence from Russia was not a single event but a process. Ukraine, previously part of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (Ukrainian SSR), declared its independence on August 24, 1991. This was solidified through a referendum held on December 1, 1991, where a vast majority voted in favor of independence. Russia, officially recognized Ukraine's independence on December 5, 1991, and established diplomatic relations on February 14

 

[Roadvirus]

Why would any one support Ukraine giving up part of its country to an attacker? Even Trump knows that is impossible.

Trump doesn't give a shit. He just wants this thing to be over so he can demand his Nobel Peace Prize to feed his all-you-can-eat bottomless pit of an ego.

 

[Ethel2]

Zelensky Rejects Trump's Peace Plan, Preferring Total Victory Scenario

Even as talks progress and Trump says there is hope for a deal, Zelensky saying the Ukrainian constitution calls for total victory.

www.breitbart.com

Kyiv in recent days is far from complimentary about President Trump’s proposals. An American blueprint for peace in Ukraine was put before combatants this week and quickly rejected as politically impossible by Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky, who cited the national constitution as making anything but total victory impossible. perhaps the greater stumbling block to achieving a workable peace agreement is President Zelensky’s insistence that he would do nothing in contradiction of the letter of the Ukrainian constitution.
the constitution states the nation’s borders are “indivisible and inviolable”, this essentially locks him and Ukraine into pushing for a maximalist total victory, with every square yard of the nation’s United Nations-recognised territory liberated. Three years of brutal fighting and hundreds of thousands of lives have yet to achieve this goal.

President Zelensky said of this position that he would accept only a total defeat of the Russian invasion, a peace on unobtainable terms: “Anything that contradicts our values or our Constitution cannot be included in any agreements”.

in the case of the Ukrainian government really wanting peace the constitution could be amended. But until that time comes, plenty more constitutionalist obstructions can be found, such as any changes to the document needing to be ratified by a national referendum, and elections being impossible under wartime conditions and martial law, which is also Zelensky’s rationale for not having had to face re-election yet.

Imagine that! The leader of Ukraine has promised to follow the constitution!!
What a foreign concept here over the last 100 or so days, eh?

 

[dandolo2k]

That's actually how this country got started. Broke away from the colonists.

That's actually how today's Donbass started. Broke away from Ukrainian evil empire.

 

[Roadvirus]

Because might makes right.

The US could help Ukraine and Europe repel Russia.

Trump could seal his peace deal with a $50B arms sale to Ukraine

"The only way to stop Putin from doing this — and cement Trump’s legacy as a peacemaker — is to make sure Ukraine has a military deterrent so powerful that Russia would not dare attack again. A promise to sell U.S. weapons would give Ukraine confidence it could build that deterrent. Few countries possess the weapons systems Ukraine needs or the industrial capacity to produce them. And there is no doubt that China, Iran and North Korea — even if there is a peace agreement — will continue to provide robust assistance to Russia in preparation for its next attempt to conquer Ukraine."

Trump doesn't want to do that. Upsetting his Moscow Mancrush is the last thing he'd want to do.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Why , why ? He, P. can promis everything, he can promis that he will never take any extra inch of Ukrainian land , just as European politicians promised to him and to Russia hundreds of times , that NATO will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER expand towards Russian borders , and all former soviet countries will remain totally neutral.

When did NATO place foot soldiers in a Russian puppet state to take that country away from Russia. The USSR collapsed. That how the satellites nations got their freedom.

 

[Roadvirus]

You have forgotten tha Ukraine has broke away illegally , dragging illegally Russian lands with itself.

Oh just shut up with that shit.

 

[craig]

Trump doesn't give a shit. He just wants this thing to be over so he can demand his Nobel Peace Prize to feed his all-you-can-eat bottomless pit of an ego.

If Trump helps Russia dissect and eat parts of Ukraine he will not get a peace prize unless Russia has a peace prize, which I doubt.

 

[dandolo2k]

When did NATO place foot soldiers in a Russian puppet state to take that country away from Russia. The USSR collapsed. That how the satellites nations got their freedom.

again blathering and void Western propaganda....

 

[dandolo2k]

Oh just shut up with that shit.

THe shit is basically the content of all your posts.

 

[craig]

again blathering and void Western propaganda....

Does Russia disavow all of it's agreements since the USSR collapsed?