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Your thoughts on Agnostics

Elvira said:
Fallible men inspired by God's holy spirit...Ezra 7:6; 2 Timothy 3:16...
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That's their claim. However, you can not show that they were actually inspired by God's holy spirit, or merely the thought , nor can you show what the wrote is actually God's will and feelings, or From God.
 
RAMOSS said:
That's their claim. However, you can not show that they were actually inspired by God's holy spirit, or merely the thought , nor can you show what the wrote is actually God's will and feelings, or From God.
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Do you live in Missouri? :2razz:
 
RAMOSS said:
That's their claim. However, you can not show that they were actually inspired by God's holy spirit, or merely the thought , nor can you show what the wrote is actually God's will and feelings, or From God.
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Timothy was not writing about his own words, but about whatever was the content of scripture at the time. So his own words are not scripture, nor are they from god.
 
devildavid said:
Timothy was not writing about his own words, but about whatever was the content of scripture at the time. So his own words are not scripture, nor are they from god.
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Timothy did not write them...it was Paul who wrote 2 letters to Timothy, thus the names, 1 & 2 Timothy...
 
Elvira said:
Timothy did not write them...it was Paul who wrote 2 letters to Timothy, thus the names, 1 & 2 Timothy...
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Well, my mistake, but they were still letters written at the time and not a part of scripture. Every time Paul wrote a letter it did not automatically become part of scripture.
 
devildavid said:
Well, my mistake, but they were still letters written at the time and not a part of scripture. Every time Paul wrote a letter it did not automatically become part of scripture.
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They are indeed a part of inspired scripture...he actually wrote 14...
 
Elvira said:
Timothy did not write them...it was Paul who wrote 2 letters to Timothy, thus the names, 1 & 2 Timothy...
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It is the opinion of most mainstream biblical scholars is that 1 and 2 Timothy are part of the pastorals , and are considered Pseudepigrapha. Out of the 13 letters of Paul, there are 6 of them that are questioned about their authorship, and most feel they were not actually written by Paul.
 
Elvira said:
Jehovah of course...Psalm 102:25-27...
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Do you have any evidence outside the Bible that your particular chosen god is more credible than all those others?

If so I would love to see it so it can be debated.
 
gfm7175 said:
I would argue that it is very easily deniable... We simply don't know for sure how old those fossils are... We weren't there at the time to observe the life forms which became fossilized... Various dating methods all make various assumptions regarding various 'constants', and we simply don't know for sure...


True... Doesn't mean that the info being presented is accurate, though. We simply don't know whether those various dating methods are accurate or not; we weren't there to observe the things which we are assuming...


I don't think Elvira is denying that fossils exist; neither am I. They definitely do exist.
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Since it's "easily deniable":

In your best guess estimate, the homo sapiens fossils that have been found that are currently being dated as roughly between 100,000 and 200,000 years old, are how old? If modern science today is wrong, how wrong are they?

Are you suggesting the Adam & Eve parable in the bible is a factually accurate record of history and that it all happened about 6000 years ago?
 
Tim the plumber said:

Do you have any evidence outside the Bible that your particular chosen god is more credible than all those others?

If so I would love to see it so it can be debated.
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You say "outside the Bible", as if it is only one book...it is not...it is a composite of 66 different books written by 40 different people over a period of 1500+ years...Jehovah has an excellent track record recorded in them...
 
Dragonfly said:
What do you mean by "absolute truth"?
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There are absolute truths in the world, would you not agree? For instance...would you dare to board an airplane if you did not think that the laws of aerodynamics were absolute truths?
 
Elvira said:
Do you not think there is absolute truth somewhere, somehow, someway?
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What is the difference between 'truth' and 'absolute truth'?
 
Elvira said:
You say "outside the Bible", as if it is only one book...it is not...it is a composite of 66 different books written by 40 different people over a period of 1500+ years...Jehovah has an excellent track record recorded in them...
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Outside of communist propaganda there is no evidence that such a political system would work, has worked or is at all sensible.

That does not mean that there are not thousands of books and stuff that say it does work and is inevitable and the only right way.

You have to show evidence that could have shown that it was wrong but shows it to be right.
 
Elvira said:
There are absolute truths in the world, would you not agree? For instance...would you dare to board an airplane if you did not think that the laws of aerodynamics were absolute truths?
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That I know that the plane has a very good record of safely getting to its' destination does not mean I must believe in the physics.

There are those who believe the earth is flat. It does not seem to stop them going on holiday on planes despite the information that the pilot will be using a spherical model of the world to navigate.

Also we know that the models of aerodynamics we have work because the plane flies. How do we test your religious truths?
 
Elvira said:
There are absolute truths in the world, would you not agree? For instance...would you dare to board an airplane if you did not think that the laws of aerodynamics were absolute truths?
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So when it helps you make a point science can in fact be an absolute truth, but when it works against you science is not to be even remotely considered?

200 years ago the idea of flight was a thing of witchcraft.

Now we put dune-buggies on other planets.

But dating a fossil, actually millions of fossils, is pure hogwash and/or blasphemy?
 
Dragonfly said:
So when it helps you make a point science can in fact be an absolute truth, but when it works against you science is not to be even remotely considered?

200 years ago the idea of flight was a thing of witchcraft.

Now we put dune-buggies on other planets.

But dating a fossil, actually millions of fossils, is pure hogwash and/or blasphemy?
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lol...where do you think such laws came from? Jehovah God, of course...at best, fossil datings are guesstimates...that is man's flaw, not God's...
 
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Elvira said:
lol...where do you think such laws came from? Jehovah God, of course...at best, fossil datings are guesstimates...that is man's flaw, not God's...
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Please post the biblical verses that outline the laws of aerodynamics.
 
Dragonfly said:
Some people will, at times, use the term "agnostic" in a derisive fashion.

Why is that?

When you hear someone claim to be agnostic what's your reaction to that, and why?
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As a Christian, I have more respect for agnostics then so-called atheists. At least agnostics are admitting they do not know whether or not God exists.
 
Dragonfly said:
Please post the biblical verses that outline the laws of aerodynamics.
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As Creator of all things in heaven and earth, Jehovah has established laws governing all created things...Acts 4:24; Revelation 4:11...

The “regulation” on the sea is spoke about in Job 38:10...

Jehovah is ‘commanding the morning’ in Job 38:12...

Jehovah calls attention to star constellations and to “the statutes of the heavens” in Job 38:31-33...the same chapter points to God as governing the light, snow, hail, clouds, rain, dew, and lightning...

In chapters 39 through 41, Jehovah’s care for the animal kingdom is shown, and the birth, life cycles, and habits of animals are attributed to regulations laid down by God, not to any evolutionary adaptation...

Jehovah incorporated the law that each was to bring forth “according to its kind,” making evolution impossible...Genesis 1:11, 12, 21, 24, 25...man also brought forth sons “in his likeness, in his image"...Genesis 5:3...

The embryonic growth of a child in the womb is spoken of, its parts being written down in Jehovah’s book before any of them actually existed...Psalm 139:13-16...

Job 26:7 describes Jehovah as “hanging the earth upon nothing”...falling right into line with what scientists today attribute the earth’s position in space...primarily due to the interaction of the law of gravity and the law of centrifugal force....
 
Dragonfly said:
Some people will, at times, use the term "agnostic" in a derisive fashion.

Why is that?

When you hear someone claim to be agnostic what's your reaction to that, and why?
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I think about them just like I do any person with religion or lack of one . . . i dont...... and that alone doesnt matter to me nor should it.
 
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Dragonfly said:
Some people will, at times, use the term "agnostic" in a derisive fashion.

Why is that?

When you hear someone claim to be agnostic what's your reaction to that, and why?
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My dad was an agnostic and described it as "I don't know"; he didn't want religion telling him "how to know" nor did he discourage us kids from finding our own and any path we wanted. He was however open minded on the subject as an objective line of thought.
 
Elvira said:
They are indeed a part of inspired scripture...he actually wrote 14...
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But they were not at the time he wrote them nor did he claim they were. His reference to scriptures in his letters is not a reference to his own letters.
 
jet57 said:
My dad was an agnostic and described it as "I don't know"; he didn't want religion telling him "how to know" nor did he discourage us kids from finding our own and any path we wanted. He was however open minded on the subject as an objective line of thought.
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Sounds like a pretty cool guy. Good for him. Good for his kids too.
 
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