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You don't speak for me Cindy.

Navy Pride said:
This woman has to understand that she only speaks for the very far left and the Liberal media.....
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That's where you are wrong: she is only speaking for herself.
 
vandree said:
That's where you are wrong: she is only speaking for herself.
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Bingo. To stay out there she has had to enlist sponsors and, let's see, I don't think Right-wing groups would line up to sponsor her. But then why doesn't she pack up and go home you say? Because democracy is not a right reserved for those who can afford it.
 
Up date on You don't speak for me Cindy........Looks like Saturday is going to be a real barn burner...........The support the troops people might be in the thousands...stay tuned.......

LET THE WONDERFUL SILENT MAJORITY BE HEARD !!!!!!


From: Melanie Morgan - Move America Forward
Date: 08/22/05 08:29:34


This is Melanie Morgan here.

I don't have much time, as we are being bombarded with phone calls and emails from supporters, the national news media and military families about the "You Don't Speak for Me, Cindy" Tour.

Friends - this movement to tell the story of military families and their supporters who DO stand by our troops AND their mission is growing exponentially.

I've not seen such a response - and so much excitement - in any other grassroots effort I've been involved in.

We are working on the schedules for Tuesday and Wednesday stops for the caravan.

PLEASE - if you are anywhere near where our caravan will be we NEED you to make plans to meet us at the caravan stops... and if possible join the caravan for part of the way.

The schedule is being updated constantly here:

http://www.MoveAmericaForward.org

Go there - find out where we'll be and how you can join us.

And again - if you can make a contribution, please do so. You cannot imagine our costs in vehicles, gas, lodging, sound systems, porta potties for the rally on August 27th, and our ad campaign to get the word out.

CONTRIBUTE ONLINE:

http://www.MoveAmericaForward.org/Contribution


P.S. Two groups are really working overtime to help us. You can see this movement gaining strength by their words at Free Republic and Protest Warrior.

See:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1465713/posts?page=1
 
ShamMol said:
^There have been supporters for the war there for a while there, which has gotten plenty of media coverage. Or, did you choose not to know that.

And you are right, Jon Stewart identified that and said it was that along with bored white house reporters who don't care about lance armstrong.
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Can you honestly say that the media coverage given the pro troops (No one is pro war) people is as much as given Sheehan?
 
vandree said:
That's where you are wrong: she is only speaking for herself.
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Have you ever heard of moveon.org or MIchael Moore? go to their websites and you might change your mind.......

Never mind, I just looked at your profile to check your politcal leanings.......
 
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Yes. Right. She's Michael Moore in disguise.... uh huh.

If you don't like what she's saying, wouldn't the smartest thing be to ignore her, thereby not giving her the satisfaction of more publicity?

Stinger said:
As far as public opinion and our will to fight the enemies who would kill us. IF these citizens get as much publicity and attention and are treated with the same level of importance as the appeasors then yes they may very well make a pound of difference. But do I believe they will recieve the same level of attention and fawning............NO.
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Wouldn't you say that attempting to suppress free speech is just another form of appeasement?
 
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vergiss said:
Yes. Right. She's Michael Moore in disguise.... uh huh.

If you don't like what she's saying, wouldn't the smartest thing be to ignore her, thereby not giving her the satisfaction of more publicity?
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I can't ignore her every time I turn on the news the Liberal media has her pitiful face plastered all over it...........I told you its a slow news month at Crawford......

Wouldn't you say that attempting to suppress free speech is just another form of appeasement?
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Hey I am a first amendment guy all the way........She can make a fool of herself as much as she wants..............
 
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Calm2Chaos said:
How long till she goes away. I'm tired of hearing her and about her.
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Aslong as people like Navy Pride keep stirring the pot and getting her media exposure I imagine she'll be around a while.. at least till one of the bush bots kills her.
 
^I said that earlier, nobody listened. There was an interesting op-ed article in the nytimes, shock of the century, cause I never read it, about Cindy. Basically, they talked about how people have gone to the well of tatics one too many times...basically, swift boating her. Except, this time, it really isn't working that well. Sure, it has changed a few people, but not many and that was the point of this article. The op-ed went on to note that as long as this character assasination of Cindy went on, the talk would continue and the negative press for those on the right would continue.

Now, take that with a grain of salt considering it was written by a liberal mod op-eder for the nytimes, but it was nonetheless spot on in its analysis of the situation. Interesting read should anyone care to look for it, I found it on the subway.
 
Navy Pride said:
Can you honestly say that the media coverage given the pro troops (No one is pro war) people is as much as given Sheehan?
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No and it shouldn't be because they are not the original story. The are to a this as a rider is to a bill. Apt analogy if I may say so myself. Basically, it is important, as a rider is, but not the paramount concern. People started paying attention because one mother spoke out against the President for starting a war that eventually killed her son.

The story, as the right-wingers now like to spin it, is that the left is out to get us...oh wait that is every day, even though they control every part of government...you know, to borrow the words of kos...if the Dems were in control of all the offices, I wouldn't be angry and upset with the damn conservatives, I would be jumping up and down, taxing and spending, taxing and spending. Oopss...I went off on a tangent...basically, the story as the right wingers like to say it is that she is a "nut job" as one person put it who doesn't give a flying hell about her son and is just doing this for political reasons. They try and character attack her instead of confronting the issue...that is what is fascinating to me...whatever, I have rambled long enough.
 
ShamMol said:
^I said that earlier, nobody listened. There was an interesting op-ed article in the nytimes, shock of the century, cause I never read it, about Cindy. Basically, they talked about how people have gone to the well of tatics one too many times...basically, swift boating her. Except, this time, it really isn't working that well. Sure, it has changed a few people, but not many and that was the point of this article. The op-ed went on to note that as long as this character assasination of Cindy went on, the talk would continue and the negative press for those on the right would continue.
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He is probably right. They can't really swift boat her because they have nothing on her other than she changed her mind about the war. Trying to swift boat her makes them look bad as she lost a kid in Iraq(and most of them didn't). The more they bash her the worse they look. Bashing the mom of a dead G.I. doens't look good. By feeding the frenzy they just get her more and more coverage while simultaneously looking like dicks for bashing a Gold Star mom.

I think had Bush talked to her on the first day and said something like " I feel your loss,but I have to respectably disagree with you on this" she would have gone home with little press coverage.
 
ShamMol said:
Oopss...I went off on a tangent...basically, the story as the right wingers like to say it is that she is a "nut job" as one person put it who doesn't give a flying hell about her son and is just doing this for political reasons. They try and character attack her instead of confronting the issue...that is what is fascinating to me...whatever, I have rambled long enough.
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What else are they going to do? If they play by the facts they'd lose. She is correct that the U.S. people were misled about what we were getting into. The war hasn't gone like the Admin. stated it would. For something that was suppose to only last a few months and be paid for by the Iraqis you could say it was a disaster.
 
scottyz said:
He is probably right. They can't really swift boat her because they have nothing on her other than she changed her mind about the war. Trying to swift boat her makes them look bad as she lost a kid in Iraq(and most of them didn't). The more they bash her the worse they look. Bashing the mom of a dead G.I. doens't look good. By feeding the frenzy they just get her more and more coverage while simultaneously looking like dicks for bashing a Gold Star mom.

I think had Bush talked to her on the first day and said something like " I feel your loss,but I have to respectably disagree with you on this" she would have gone home with little press coverage.
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I think you are right in saying that the more they bash her the worse they look, but you are wrong in saying they have nothing. Even I will admit that she has said some stuff that, let's face it, is out there. But they just don't realize that it doesn't work in this case-It is Doyle Brunsen trying to bluff at the pot having only a draw while the other guy holds a straight...poker, gotta love it. Basically, they are making big noise saying "Look here, look here, she is evil and liberal, don't trust her!! We have the dirt, we have the real facts, don't trust hers!!" But they need to realize it just isn't going to work this time.

The solution is not an ideal one for the president. Bush needs to cut his vacation now so that the press core can stop covering it. If they have legit news-they cover it, if they don't, "Tell us your story Cindy." The other part of the solution is for the right wingers to stop going on the air. Yes, I know, if it were a liberal in the same position I would suggest the same thing. They need to stop giving her press, and now. They are only adding to the fire that they are decrying.

What else are they going to do? If they play by the facts they'd lose. She is correct that the U.S. people were misled about what we were getting into. The war hasn't gone like the Admin. stated it would. For something that was suppose to only last a few months and be paid for by the Iraqis you could say it was a disaster.
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They have some facts on their side to be fair. Just as in any matchup, there are pluses and minuses, they can call up the democracy and no Saddam, etc. But I do agree the fact remains that there is no proverbial mushroom cloud...as he said there was.
 
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ShamMol said:
I think you are right in saying that the more they bash her the worse they look, but you are wrong in saying they have nothing. Even I will admit that she has said some stuff that, let's face it, is out there. But they just don't realize that it doesn't work in this case-It is Doyle Brunsen trying to bluff at the pot having only a draw while the other guy holds a straight...poker, gotta love it. Basically, they are making big noise saying "Look here, look here, she is evil and liberal, don't trust her!! We have the dirt, we have the real facts, don't trust hers!!" But they need to realize it just isn't going to work this time.
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Sure she says stuff, but they all do. She has her rhetoric and the people who oppose her have theirs. Her rhetoric gets their blood boiling and drives them to make hateful comments which in turn make people more sympathetic towards her. Whether or not this is her consciously designed strategy I don't know, but it's working.


The solution is not an ideal one for the president. Bush needs to cut his vacation now so that the press core can stop covering it. If they have legit news-they cover it, if they don't, "Tell us your story Cindy." The other part of the solution is for the right wingers to stop going on the air. Yes, I know, if it were a liberal in the same position I would suggest the same thing. They need to stop giving her press, and now. They are only adding to the fire that they are decrying.
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I think all they have to do is stop talking about her. As with Terri Shiavo I believe they want to amplify this into a ideological battleground of sorts, plus it rallies the base.
They have some facts on their side to be fair. Just as in any matchup, there are pluses and minuses, they can call up the democracy and no Saddam, etc. But I do agree the fact remains that there is no proverbial mushroom cloud...as he said there was.
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Except Iraq isn't a democracy and given the track record so far there is no reason to believe it will really become one. After the last two years I have little confidence that this admin. knows what's doing in Iraq. I agreed with invading Afganistan but we seem to have given up on them and focused all our energy on a non-bin laden/taliban harboring country.
 
scottyz said:
Sure she says stuff, but they all do. She has her rhetoric and the people who oppose her have theirs. Her rhetoric gets their blood boiling and drives them to make hateful comments which in turn make people more sympathetic towards her. Whether or not this is her consciously designed strategy I don't know, but it's working.
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It is working, and thank heavens that it is. I may not agree with what she is saying, but she may be the Dems ticket back to something because she has mobilized someone. That hasn't been done for quite a long time...seriously. Their rhetoric gets her blood boiling, and vis versa...that is the problem with rhetoric. I don't agree with some of what she is saying, but hey, if she mobilizes my troops, go for it Cindy, go for it.
I think all they have to do is stop talking about her. As with Terri Shiavo I believe they want to amplify this into a ideological battleground of sorts, plus it rallies the base.
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No, as kos puts it, they need to be angry about something because that is what got them there today. And just like they use the same play (swift boating or character assasination as it is more conventionally called) over and over again, they only know one plan of attack. I think that the first step is to stop talking about Cindy, and the second step is to actually adress the issue that Cindy is adressing.

They are not just content to be happy and say, holy s**t, we are in total control...we control the courts (75% of all courts appointed by Repubs), the legislatures, most of the states, and the presidency. I just don't get it. If we were in control, I would be very content and about the same as I am now, not angry, but content with my posistion because I would be in power (for the record I am content because I like being the underdog).
Except Iraq isn't a democracy and given the track record so far there is no reason to believe it will really become one. After the last two years I have little confidence that this admin. knows what's doing in Iraq. I agreed with invading Afganistan but we seem to have given up on them and focused all our energy on a non-bin laden/taliban harboring country.
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Debatable at best. I have every hope that Iraq will become a stable and viable democracy and see progress at the very least. My point is that each side will always have issues to discuss instead of just attacking the other side. And from that, each side can bring up "facts" (or what that side sees as fact) to support them, and that is the essence of debate. I agreed with invading Afghanistan as well, and I wouldn't have been so upset about Iraq except for the fact that I was the only one calling BS around me...jeez I wish I had been at this forum at that time.
 
Her son was fun before he was sent to a ****ing war the president lied to the american people AND CONGRESS ABOUT. PERIOD END OF ****ING STORY. CUT ANd DRY you are a ****ing idiot if you fail to see that. You are a blind ****ing ballwasher and I hope you end up in the hospital with a stroke soon before you brainwash anybody else to your neoconvoluted christian bigotry.
 
Navy Pride said:
Have you ever heard of moveon.org or MIchael Moore? go to their websites and you might change your mind.......

Never mind, I just looked at your profile to check your politcal leanings.......
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So?!! I am not Michael Moore and I have nothing to do with Moveon.org, believe it or not I can use my brain and think for myself. My point is that just because I am a liberal, it doesn't mean that I agree with all the liberals. The world is not only black or white, there are many shades of gray.

Cindy decided she was going to camp outside the president's ranch: she didn't ask anyone to join her; as a matter of fact the first day she was ther only with her sister a few more people. The event was not organized or coordinated by Moveon.org or Michael Moore. Maybe it so happened that people at this point in time don't support the war: maybe they heard about a mother who was determined to get some answers from the President and maybe they thought that she deserved those answers; maybe they felt it was time to speak up and make someone accountable for what is going on in Iraq; maybe they just admired Cindy's courage and decided to show their support.

Both sides (Conservatives and liberals) should be out there asking questions and demanding answers. Everyone should be outraged and angry for being lied to and manipulated. War is not a videogame in Iraq: it is real. And people are dying, and suffering for real while Bush takes his vacation.
 
I can't believe protesting is considered a taboo in the US during wartime. Being against protesting is being against the freedom of your country. Protesters value their freedom more because they are actually using it. Why should anyone be forced to agree with the President or keep quiet because there is a war going on? Isn't that against what your ancestors were trying to protect and die for?
 
GarzaUK said:
I can't believe protesting is considered a taboo in the US during wartime. Being against protesting is being against the freedom of your country. Protesters value their freedom more because they are actually using it. Why should anyone be forced to agree with the President or keep quiet because there is a war going on? Isn't that against what your ancestors were trying to protect and die for?
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No one is forcing anything on anybody...It has to do with WHAT she is saying...not whether or not she has a right to say anything...

I JUST posted this in another thread....Don't take offense to the first line...It was directed elsewhere...

It goes even further than that....It's when you should censor your own THOUGHTS from coming out of your mouth that these kids can't get through their dome...None of which is a Free Speech issue...

You and your best friend get into an argument where you start to hate each other...Then he dies...

His mother, whose known you since diapers, asks you to say a few words at the funeral. Do you bite your tongue or start out by saying, "He was a rat bastard!"?

Daddy had a one night stand with the secretary, and Daddy knows you know...He begs you not to say anything because it was a "one time" mistake...Is this a "Free Speech" issue?

Your sister "comes out of the closet" to you and asks you to keep it on the down-low....Do you say, " F U!...Don't tell me I can't execise my First Amendment rights!!!!...then run out and tell all of her friends? You're legally correct you know...

See?...Just because you have a RIGHT to do it, doesn't mean it IS RIGHT to do it...

Everything you do and say has consequences....I am legally bound by my First Amendment rights to run through the streets of Harlem yelling "White Power"....Now is that the right thing to do? Even though I have a right to do it?
 
BTW - to scottyz & ShamMol....I was at work all night(got home at 6AM EST)...and I watched you two guys go back & forth with your posts, and decided NOT to jump in...when the waters are calmer, you tend to get a closer look at the big picture, so I didn't want to "make a splash"...I just watched...and I disagree with SOME points, but as conversations go, it was very nice...

And then this...

You've Got To Be Kidding said:
Her son was fun before he was sent to a ****ing war the president lied to the american people AND CONGRESS ABOUT. PERIOD END OF ****ING STORY. CUT ANd DRY you are a ****ing idiot if you fail to see that. You are a blind ****ing ballwasher and I hope you end up in the hospital with a stroke soon before you brainwash anybody else to your neoconvoluted christian bigotry.
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If I were you guys, I'd tell him that you lose a ton of cred coming out with this trash...He wouldn't believe me if I tell him...Maybe he'll grow up a little if he hears it from his own team...

And Sham's been around long enough to know I've done the same...I've had to keep more than one Con in check on this site, so I'm not being hypocritical...
 
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So, why shouldn't she be speaking against Bush? Besides the fact that you don't agree, of course.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navy Pride:
I wonder if her mother is really sick or its just a shame to regroup....... End Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordontravels:
Whether there is any substance here or not and, considering that her mother is in the hospital with a stroke that none of us would want for ourselves - this is a cruel statement. You debate better than this but any debate position would be better than this. I know you meant sham instead of shame but maybe that is telling of your words. End Quote

I posted your quote and my response here again because I have what I think are things in common with you. Proud military service and a belief in my personal positions on not only politics but life in general. Therefore, I both take the time to agree and disagree with you.

If you decide to ignore me then you will continue doing so and that will be beyond my own actions. I answer those who firmly disagree or maybe agree with me. I didn't ignore your post because I saw it as beyond simple debate; I saw it as cruel. If that is you then so be it. I wonder though. Hence, my post to you. Answer or not but know I asked and expected a response. :duel :cool:
 
cnredd said:
See?...Just because you have a RIGHT to do it, doesn't mean it IS RIGHT to do it...

Everything you do and say has consequences....I am legally bound by my First Amendment rights to run through the streets of Harlem yelling "White Power"....Now is that the right thing to do? Even though I have a right to do it?[/I]
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So it is not right to criticise your government during wartime at all?

Running through Harlem yelling white power the right thing to do if you want to be killed.
In a dictatorship a person won't protest because he/she is in fear of getting killed. Those two are the same.
Protesting in a democracy is different (thankfully) than the previous two examples.
 
GarzaUK said:
So it is not right to criticise your government during wartime at all?
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Actually, in a way, it is not a right. The citizens take that away from us by rabid anti-anti-war tirades, etc. The military takes that away by monitoring what is reported on during wartime on news channels about the war. Little things like that.
 
ShamMol said:
Actually, in a way, it is not a right. The citizens take that away from us by rabid anti-anti-war tirades, etc. The military takes that away by monitoring what is reported on during wartime on news channels about the war. Little things like that.
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Gimmie a break. reporting of the war to this degree is unprecedented. Never before have we had realtime coverage of this magnitude. Your seeing more now then you ever did. And the truth is if there are 100 good things going on you can gaurantee that the news will show the one bad. The amazing slant to network news is almost astounding if it wasn't so evident. It is there to feed in to the anti-america, anti-bush, anti-military feelings. You should not have full coverage of everything going on in a war. There are things you can't see. If you see them then the enemy sees them. You try to keep certain tactical advantages to yourself.
 
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