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"You don't need an AR15..."

jet57 said:
We agree on the black market. Good, because that's where my energies on the gun issue really go.

As for disparaging others: I only have a disrespect for those "my way or the highway, you're a bannerhoid" types. They are the elitists; they put their version of patriotism and the the holy grail of the second amendment before any and all other considerations. These people tend to show anti social traits that make them combative rather than objective and logical: they argue from emotion rather than reality. We seem all over the gun threads, and we know who they are.

Certain military weapons etc are withheld / banned from public sale for very good reasons. If you don't believe me, look at Syria. We cannot have "factions" going to war with each other in that effect. We cannot have gangs going to war with police and with each other and a black market that includes everything under the sun, so that certain "law abiding citizens" can observe their rights under the second amendment: THAT is a fallacious and subversive argument that violates the general welfare clause, and as an American citizen, I deserve a stress free neighborhood and safe streets.
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You will never have stress free neighborhoods and completely safe streets. These things do not exist in the real world. You do not have a "right" to them.


You MAY have a relatively low-stress, reasonably safe neighborhood, if you choose it carefully and if you do the necessary things to keep it that way... like working with the police to make life hard for the bad guys in your area, instead of "no snitchin'" and throwing bottles at patrol cars as some do.

Are you familiar with the Broken Windows theory? In essence it says "Where you find many unmended broken windows, you will also find every vice imaginable to Man."

Now like many sayings this isn't 100% literal truth... but it isn't far wrong. When you ride through a neighborhood and see lots of broken windows, left untended or boarded up, messy yards and uncut grass, trash scattered around and so on... you generally know you're not in a good part of town. The theory says that when things get to a point where relatively minor crimes like vandalism go unpunished and unrepaired, major crimes tend to take root and flourish.

My experience has been that this is true more often than not. It doesn't literally have much to do with the broken windows themselves, but with the attitudes of the residents and of law enforcement: in both cases, despair of changing anything for the better once it has gotten past a certain point. Lotta places like that in Chicago and Detroit, I'll wager. Areas like that in the nearest city I spend time in too.


One major issue is whether people can defend themselves from armed thugs. For a long time Chicago made it nearly impossible for Joe Average to own or carry a gun, and the armed thugs ran wild and now we have a truly incredible number of murders there, a massive number of shootings and stabbings every weekend. As rights are being restored to some degree, that may slowly begin to change as average citizens regain the ability to defend their homes and families.


Fundamentally this is just so important I can't stress it enough. Most ill that is done by one human to another is a result of an imbalance of power: where one has far more capacity to use force than the other.

Guns in the hands of Joe Average are the great leveler. The Founders knew this, and thus the 2A.


BTW you have yet to propose anything to really "thin" the black market.
 
Goshin said:
You will never have stress free neighborhoods and completely safe streets. These things do not exist in the real world. You do not have a "right" to them.


You MAY have a relatively low-stress, reasonably safe neighborhood, if you choose it carefully and if you do the necessary things to keep it that way... like working with the police to make life hard for the bad guys in your area, instead of "no snitchin'" and throwing bottles at patrol cars as some do.

Are you familiar with the Broken Windows theory? In essence it says "Where you find many unmended broken windows, you will also find every vice imaginable to Man."

Now like many sayings this isn't 100% literal truth... but it isn't far wrong. When you ride through a neighborhood and see lots of broken windows, left untended or boarded up, messy yards and uncut grass, trash scattered around and so on... you generally know you're not in a good part of town. The theory says that when things get to a point where relatively minor crimes like vandalism go unpunished and unrepaired, major crimes tend to take root and flourish.

My experience has been that this is true more often than not. It doesn't literally have much to do with the broken windows themselves, but with the attitudes of the residents and of law enforcement: in both cases, despair of changing anything for the better once it has gotten past a certain point. Lotta places like that in Chicago and Detroit, I'll wager. Areas like that in the nearest city I spend time in too.


One major issue is whether people can defend themselves from armed thugs. For a long time Chicago made it nearly impossible for Joe Average to own or carry a gun, and the armed thugs ran wild and now we have a truly incredible number of murders there, a massive number of shootings and stabbings every weekend. As rights are being restored to some degree, that may slowly begin to change as average citizens regain the ability to defend their homes and families.


Fundamentally this is just so important I can't stress it enough. Most ill that is done by one human to another is a result of an imbalance of power: where one has far more capacity to use force than the other.

Guns in the hands of Joe Average are the great leveler. The Founders knew this, and thus the 2A.


BTW you have yet to propose anything to really "thin" the black market.
Click to expand...


That is why almost every gun banner is from the side of the political aisle that wants more and more government control over our lives and want to centralize power in the hands of the federal government. And those of us who want to see federal power rolled back to its proper constitutional boundaries and want to see states be the primary criminal law provider, are usually the same people who want the power of firearms widely distributed and decentralized
 
VanceMack said:
It occurs to me that you don't even know what you are arguing about. That's...normal.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That wasn't what you were responding to. Lying doesn't prevent people from seeing the actual facts here.
 
Absentglare said:
That wasn't what you were responding to. Lying doesn't prevent people from seeing the actual facts here.
Click to expand...

so educate us on the use of AR 15s and whether or not citizens "need" them
 
whysoserious said:
If a cop is more afraid of Tamir Rice than any of those ****ing psychos that go to White Lives Matter rallies with assault rifles then you have really pinpointed the root of the problem, TD.
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I completely agree.. But I think you think this means something different than I do..
 
Absentglare said:
That wasn't what you were responding to. Lying doesn't prevent people from seeing the actual facts here.
Click to expand...

Dood...you injected yourself into a conversation you apparently weren't even following. No wonder you are so damn lost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
whysoserious said:
View attachment 67207742

^^That's the guy you should be afraid of.
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Why? They kill drastically less people than blacks..

They seem to be very much better armed than blacks.. They have those really scary guns... But murder way less people..

They are my friends, but with your views I can see why you yourself are so afraid of them, because it's obvious who wins..
 
TurtleDude said:
this would be much better for that-I suspect Goshin knows that and I don't see where he said anything about mowing down everyone




of course running that thing for a minute is going to cost you about 8000 dollars
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I have a decent amount of time behind a minigun both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When it's working right it's amazing. Unfortunately the dust and all the bumping around from driving in 3rd world crap holes makes it a bit less reliable then I would prefer.
Base defense it is hard to beat.
 
Goshin said:
You will never have stress free neighborhoods and completely safe streets. These things do not exist in the real world. You do not have a "right" to them.


You MAY have a relatively low-stress, reasonably safe neighborhood, if you choose it carefully and if you do the necessary things to keep it that way... like working with the police to make life hard for the bad guys in your area, instead of "no snitchin'" and throwing bottles at patrol cars as some do.

Are you familiar with the Broken Windows theory? In essence it says "Where you find many unmended broken windows, you will also find every vice imaginable to Man."

Now like many sayings this isn't 100% literal truth... but it isn't far wrong. When you ride through a neighborhood and see lots of broken windows, left untended or boarded up, messy yards and uncut grass, trash scattered around and so on... you generally know you're not in a good part of town. The theory says that when things get to a point where relatively minor crimes like vandalism go unpunished and unrepaired, major crimes tend to take root and flourish.

My experience has been that this is true more often than not. It doesn't literally have much to do with the broken windows themselves, but with the attitudes of the residents and of law enforcement: in both cases, despair of changing anything for the better once it has gotten past a certain point. Lotta places like that in Chicago and Detroit, I'll wager. Areas like that in the nearest city I spend time in too.


One major issue is whether people can defend themselves from armed thugs. For a long time Chicago made it nearly impossible for Joe Average to own or carry a gun, and the armed thugs ran wild and now we have a truly incredible number of murders there, a massive number of shootings and stabbings every weekend. As rights are being restored to some degree, that may slowly begin to change as average citizens regain the ability to defend their homes and families.


Fundamentally this is just so important I can't stress it enough. Most ill that is done by one human to another is a result of an imbalance of power: where one has far more capacity to use force than the other.

Guns in the hands of Joe Average are the great leveler. The Founders knew this, and thus the 2A.


BTW you have yet to propose anything to really "thin" the black market.
Click to expand...

Well, you ignored everything I said, which is an unfortunate habit of the pro-gun crowd and only fuels disagreement. You said that I “disparaged gun owners”, which is a broad brush stamen, and I clarified it for you with a very specific description of those that I think create and maintain the problem with the political discourse on the issue of guns in this country. You certainly don’t have to agree, but to ignore it as an issue in itself only illustrates why it’s still a problem.
This notion of having to “carefully choose” a low stress neighborhood to live in is just more denial rather than some sort of solution to what is clearly a gun violence problem. Everybody on the pro-gun side has been yelling recently about crime being down as gun ownership has gone up, and Chicago tells us a completely different story as does the stats on ownership, that being current gun owners are just buying more guns. Your position is just fight fire with fire, and to pour more guns onto a gun problem: the solution to war is not more war. You are accepting a bad situation and promoting it because you like guns. The ’82 Broken Windows theory is only overstating the obvious rather than looking into why the windows are broken in the first place and the new cocaine storm that hit the country in that same time period fueled the wars that came about because of it. More drugs to solve a drug problem only insures that the windows remain broken and gives excuse to those who would profit buy them no matter what side of the law that they are on.

part 1
 
Goshin said:
You will never have stress free neighborhoods and completely safe streets. These things do not exist in the real world. You do not have a "right" to them.


You MAY have a relatively low-stress, reasonably safe neighborhood, if you choose it carefully and if you do the necessary things to keep it that way... like working with the police to make life hard for the bad guys in your area, instead of "no snitchin'" and throwing bottles at patrol cars as some do.

Are you familiar with the Broken Windows theory? In essence it says "Where you find many unmended broken windows, you will also find every vice imaginable to Man."

Now like many sayings this isn't 100% literal truth... but it isn't far wrong. When you ride through a neighborhood and see lots of broken windows, left untended or boarded up, messy yards and uncut grass, trash scattered around and so on... you generally know you're not in a good part of town. The theory says that when things get to a point where relatively minor crimes like vandalism go unpunished and unrepaired, major crimes tend to take root and flourish.

My experience has been that this is true more often than not. It doesn't literally have much to do with the broken windows themselves, but with the attitudes of the residents and of law enforcement: in both cases, despair of changing anything for the better once it has gotten past a certain point. Lotta places like that in Chicago and Detroit, I'll wager. Areas like that in the nearest city I spend time in too.


One major issue is whether people can defend themselves from armed thugs. For a long time Chicago made it nearly impossible for Joe Average to own or carry a gun, and the armed thugs ran wild and now we have a truly incredible number of murders there, a massive number of shootings and stabbings every weekend. As rights are being restored to some degree, that may slowly begin to change as average citizens regain the ability to defend their homes and families.


Fundamentally this is just so important I can't stress it enough. Most ill that is done by one human to another is a result of an imbalance of power: where one has far more capacity to use force than the other.

Guns in the hands of Joe Average are the great leveler. The Founders knew this, and thus the 2A.


BTW you have yet to propose anything to really "thin" the black market.
Click to expand...

part 2

American citizens, as a benefit of citizenship, have the right to safer streets and clean windows due to effective leadership rather than having to suck hind tit to someone’s idea of what the second amendment really means, and again we can cite today’s Chicago to show how off base “the second amendment is as an issue in high crime. The imbalance of power that you speak of is caused by a lack of effective leadership and divisions of labor that keep a society growing and feeding itself. Domestic policies since the 1960s have overloaded supply side economics while demand side has been left to its own devices, thus, areas like Chicago have been taken over by the ones with the most guns; who now have all the power in their isolated fiefdoms that are controlled from outside our borders. And rather than actually doing something about that, your choice is to accept it as a condition of American life in favor of your right to carry.

Joe Average with a gun means nothing when measured against a society that suffers from such imbalances of power. You are accepting victim-hood over taking charge of your own community.

I have suggested many things, just a a post or so ago that can lead toward a safer society.
 
jet57 said:
American citizens, as a benefit of citizenship, have the right to safer streets and clean windows due to effective leadership
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I do not see this right in the bill of rights or the constitution, where did you get this made up right from? I don't think you know what rights are. Rights are what your government cannot do to you. Yet you prattle on about made up rights while arguing against an actual right.

So do not attempt to pretend you care about rights, no one will buy that bull**** here.
 
TurtleDude said:
so educate us on the use of AR 15s and whether or not citizens "need" them
Click to expand...

Well, based on the OP, it looks like some people think that they need an AR15 because they are scared.
 
jet57 said:
part 2

American citizens, as a benefit of citizenship, have the right to safer streets and clean windows due to effective leadership rather than having to suck hind tit to someone’s idea of what the second amendment really means, and again we can cite today’s Chicago to show how off base “the second amendment is as an issue in high crime. The imbalance of power that you speak of is caused by a lack of effective leadership and divisions of labor that keep a society growing and feeding itself. Domestic policies since the 1960s have overloaded supply side economics while demand side has been left to its own devices, thus, areas like Chicago have been taken over by the ones with the most guns; who now have all the power in their isolated fiefdoms that are controlled from outside our borders. And rather than actually doing something about that, your choice is to accept it as a condition of American life in favor of your right to carry.

Joe Average with a gun means nothing when measured against a society that suffers from such imbalances of power. You are accepting victim-hood over taking charge of your own community.

I have suggested many things, just a a post or so ago that can lead toward a safer society.
Click to expand...

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.
 
Lachean said:
I do not see this right in the bill of rights or the constitution, where did you get this made up right from? I don't think you know what rights are. Rights are what your government cannot do to you. Yet you prattle on about made up rights while arguing against an actual right.

So do not attempt to pretend you care about rights, no one will buy that bull**** here.
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What does the right to the pursuit of happiness entail? Turning your home into an embattled fortress, or somehow needing a gun just to walk out doors?

Please do not attempt to out think common sense with emotion.
 
Absentglare said:
Well, based on the OP, it looks like some people think that they need an AR15 because they are scared.
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Well lets look at what gun control advocates want, they say its about people being killed yet 99% of the thousands of people killed are NOT killed with assault rifles.

Assault rifles can kill more people at once, but we are still only talking about an insignificant amount of deaths compared to all the other types of guns.

So the Gun Control advocated are going after the guns that only kill 1% of the people but they expect us to believe its about saving lives.

Seems to me if you wanted to save lives by gun control you would be trying to ban hand guns. Unless you're going after the low hanging fruit, because those scary guns would be easy to ban and set the stage for incrementalism. Nah .....
 
Lachean said:
Project much? If you weren't afraid, you wouldn't want to ban the scary black guns.
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I didn't express any fear, whatsoever, so i'm unclear what you're basing that on. It could be a case of projecting projection.

But i don't care. The case outlined in the OP is that the world is scary, rioting black men could come after you, and you need an AR15 to deal with that threat.
 
"You don't need an AR15..."

blaxshep said:
Well lets look at what gun control advocates want, they say its about people being killed yet 99% of the thousands of people killed are NOT killed with assault rifles.

Assault rifles can kill more people at once, but we are still only talking about an insignificant amount of deaths compared to all the other types of guns.

So the Gun Control advocated are going after the guns that only kill 1% of the people but they expect us to believe its about saving lives.

Seems to me if you wanted to save lives by gun control you would be trying to ban hand guns. Unless you're going after the low hanging fruit, because those scary guns would be easy to ban and set the stage for incrementalism. Nah .....
Click to expand...

Your argument is that the lives of those who die at the hands of an AR15 are negligible ...?
 
Absentglare said:
I didn't express any fear, whatsoever, so i'm unclear what you're basing that on. It could be a case of projecting projection.

But i don't care. The case outlined in the OP is that the world is scary, rioting black men could come after you, and you need an AR15 to deal with that threat.
Click to expand...

If rioting black men were to come after us, I would have an AR-15 and I guess you would have a cell phone to call the cops.

Don't worry I will honor your wishes and only shoot the ones coming after me.
 
Re: "You don't need an AR15..."

Absentglare said:
Your argument is that the lives of those who die at the hands of an AR15 are negligible ...?
Click to expand...

Maybe a hundred compared to the tens of thousands killed every year buy non - "Assault-weapons"; YES.
 
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